Eating snow

[LoneWolf5841]

I just came from a thread talking about snow and water and it gave me an idea. A new feature, the ability to eat snow. This is an ultimately last resort action for if you don't have water or the materials to start a fire. The way this would work is you would equip a tin can then look at the snow to collect some in the tin can, then you can eat the snow. This will slightly hydrate you, maybe like 15%, just enough to maybe save your life. The downside is it comes with a risk of making you sick just like drinking nonpotable water, as well as dropping your temperature and giving you a risk of hypothermia. Not too long ago I spawned in ash canyon and I eventually ran out of water and had no fire starting materials. This ability, though risky, could have saved my run just long enough to find some of those pesky matches lol

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by LoneWolf5841
Punctuation

[UpUpAway95]

Actually, eating snow in the cold is a good way to die.  Your body loses heat when you use it to melt the snow, effectively freezing you from the inside out.  The process also costs you calories and, since the water content in snow is quite low, can also eventually lead to dehydration.  I would think its not a "convenience" Hinterland wants to promote.  Better if they had another site for a "guaranteed" match spawn.  It's not that hard to get out of Ash Canyon into TWM, so I don't see it as a problem once people get a little more familiar with the zone.

[LoneWolf5841]

13 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Actually, eating snow in the cold is a good way to die.  Your body loses heat when you use it to melt the snow, effectively freezing you from the inside out.  The process also costs you calories and, since the water content in snow is quite low, can also eventually lead to dehydration.  I would think its not a "convenience" Hinterland wants to promote.  Better if they had another site for a "guaranteed" match spawn.  It's not that hard to get out of Ash Canyon into TWM, so I don't see it as a problem once people get a little more familiar with the zone.

True that is the reason I mentioned the whole it drops your temperature as well as increases your risk of hypothermia. As for calories I starve my survivor, I only eat before bed, so that isn't a problem. Yes it would lead to dehydration but this isn't something you would constantly do it is nothing more than a last resort if you don't have a way to light a fire. Eating snow is purely for if you don't have a way of starting a fire and you are dehydrated it will give you a small boost to water allowing you to maybe find something to start a fire but it also puts you on a time limit as now you more in likely have hypothermia so once you find a fire starter then you have to get warm quickly or it's guaranteed death this is why it's such a last resort option and still gets the message that eating snow in a survival situation is best avoided.

And it was hard to get out of Ash canyon for me I didn't know the map at all and it was night making it impossible to see 

Edited December 23, 2020 by LoneWolf5841

[UpUpAway95]

8 minutes ago, LoneWolf5841 said:

True that is the reason I mentioned the whole it drops your temperature as well as increases your risk of hypothermia. As for calories I starve my survivor, I only eat before bed, so that isn't a problem. Yes it would lead to dehydration but this isn't something you would constantly do it is nothing more than a last resort if you don't have a way to light a fire. Eating snow is purely for if you don't have a way of starting a fire and you are dehydrated it will give you a small boost to water allowing you to maybe find something to start a fire but it also puts you on a time limit as now you more in likely have hypothermia so once you find a fire starter then you have to get warm quickly or it's guaranteed death this is why it's such a last resort option and still gets the message that eating snow in a survival situation is best avoided.

And it was hard to get out of Ash canyon for me I didn't know the map at all and it was night making it impossible to see 

Still, I'd prefer they just put in "guaranteed" match spawns near the points where players can spawn on the map than allow players to eat snow.  They would have to make the hypothermia effect from eating snow almost instantaneously lethal for it to drive the point home after than the current hypothermia mechanic (which I tend to die from long before I dehydrate anyways).  I'm sure people will learn the paths to the exit points or whatever guaranteed matches are in the zone soon enough.

 

[LoneWolf5841]

Just now, UpUpAway95 said:

Still, I'd prefer they just put in "guaranteed" match spawns near the points where players can spawn on the map than allow players to eat snow.  They would have to make the hypothermia effect from eating snow almost instantaneously lethal for it to drive the point home after than the current hypothermia mechanic (which I tend to die from long before I dehydrate anyways).  I'm sure people will learn the paths to the exit points or whatever guaranteed matches are in the zone soon enough.

 

I can agree with this Instead as it gives the player a chance which is ultimately my point.

[Avril]

I like it. In real life I would probably eat snow if I had no possibility to melt it. 

[UpUpAway95]

28 minutes ago, Avril said:

I like it. In real life I would probably eat snow if I had no possibility to melt it. 

You'd be smarter to find some alternate way to melt it first - e.g. a way to create a warmish spot using sunlight and various means of "insulation."  You only need to get it above 0C to melt it; you don't have to boil it.  It could still make you sick, but at least it wouldn't increase the risk of hypothermia and it wouldn't dehydrate you further.

AC has plenty of liquid water (waterfalls), I think a person would be far more likely to grab some unpotable water from the base of a waterfall than to eat the snow.

Edited December 23, 2020 by UpUpAway95

[LoneWolf5841]

42 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

AC has plenty of liquid water (waterfalls), I think a person would be far more likely to grab some unpotable water from the base of a waterfall than to eat the snow.

Hmm now that's a whole other conversation why can't we do that in game it's effectively another source of water that skips the need of a fire and gives water purification tablets a better use.

Edited December 23, 2020 by LoneWolf5841
Spelling and punctuation fixes

[UpUpAway95]

1 minute ago, LoneWolf5841 said:

Hmm now that's a whole other conversation why can't we do that in game banother source of water that skips the need of a fire and gives water purification tablets a better use.

... or to be able to grad water out of the falls and boil it for half the time to make it safe.  We should also have to either purify or boil the water we collect from toilets.

[LoneWolf5841]

12 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

... or to be able to grad water out of the falls and boil it for half the time to make it safe.  We should also have to either purify or boil the water we collect from toilets.

Yes it would still be boilable but ultimately I would use the water purification tablets just so I can use them, always leave them behind like why did they add them there is no way to get nonpotable water without a fire they're pointless. 

For the toilet suggestion yes I agree I actually made a thread on this I'll quote what I said there

On 11/1/2020 at 6:45 AM, LoneWolf5841 said:

Am I the only one that wishes water from toilets was nonpotable? I understand potable water from toilets with the back tank as the water in it isn't any different than water from the Tap, the tankless toilets however should give nonpotable water as you are getting it directly from the toilet bowl which would be contaminated and highly unsafe to drink without boiling it first. I personally avoid getting water from tankless toilets as it just feels wrong to get safe to drink water from the toilet bowl.

If tankless toilets gave nonpotable water it would give more use to the water purification tablets. I find the tablets pointless currently, as the only way to get nonpotable water, as far as I know, is melting snow which you need fire for so you will end up boiling it anyway no need for the tablets. The only use tablets can give is to save a little time but I always multitask while I boil my water so I never really use purification tablets. Now if the tankless toilets gave nonpotable water then I would be more inclined to use the purification tablets as I wouldn't want to start a fire just for a bit of toilet water. Also another note the toilets with the tank could give both nonpotable water as well as potable water obviously the potable water would come from the tank and the nonpotable water would come from the bowl. I really hope this is added in the future as it feels so wrong getting fresh water from the tankless toilet.

 

[UpUpAway95]

6 minutes ago, LoneWolf5841 said:

Yes it would still be boilable but ultimately I would use the water purification tablets just so I can use them, always leave them behind like why did they add them there is no way to get nonpotable water without a fire they're pointless. 

For the toilet suggestion yes I agree I actually made a thread on this I'll quote what I said there

 

Yes.  Another obvious source of liquid water (unpotable) in the game should be the fishing holes (except for CH where it would be salt water).  I never understood why my character was leaving the fishing hut to bring back snow to melt on the stove rather than just dunking his tin can into the hole he had dug in the ice to fish.

I always use up my water purification tablets when I find them.  It cuts the time needed to get water in half, which means I either don't have to make a fire last as long or I can get 2X the amount of water... particularly useful if I only have the one tin can.

Edited December 23, 2020 by UpUpAway95

[LoneWolf5841]

7 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Yes.  Another obvious source of liquid water (unpotable) in the game should be the fishing holes (except for CH where it would be salt water).  I never understood why my character was leaving the fishing hut to bring back snow to melt on the stove rather than just dunking his tin can into the hole he had dug in the ice to fish.

I always use up my water purification tablets when I find them.  It cuts the time needed to get water in half, which means I either don't have to make a fire last as long or I can get 2X the amount of water... particularly useful if I only have the one tin can.

The snow must be a drug to our survivor they are obviously addicted to it 🤣 on a more serious note I agree that would be a nice source as well and would ultimately increase immersion. I always use them if I have them on me but it's rare. I usually just ignore them as I would much rather just multitask while boiling water. If these extra sources of water was added I would definitely be more inclined to use them as I wouldn't want to make a fire if I don't have to.

[Derek0311]

@LoneWolf5841. I think you are right, we should be able to eat snow.  Like so many ideas here this addition on it’s own could be difficult, but, with some additional mechanics, it could work out well.

Eating snow is all about short term gains and long term loss.  It will hydrate you but at a greater hit to body temperature.  If a body heat mechanic where introduced that had a greater heat output then it could work.  I know Les Stroud advocates eating snow if you are traveling, so it could work.  I also don’t think a container is required in order to do it either, but Hinterland can figure that out, we don’t have to.

@UpUpAway95 Everything you are saying about eating snow is true.  Eating snow is not a long term strategy to hydration.  On the other hand, I don’t mind the player being able to screw themselves in the long term.

 

[LoneWolf5841]

18 minutes ago, Derek0311 said:

@LoneWolf5841. I think you are right, we should be able to eat snow.  Like so many ideas here this addition on it’s own could be difficult, but, with some additional mechanics, it could work out well.

Eating snow is all about short term gains and long term loss.  It will hydrate you but at a greater hit to body temperature.  If a body heat mechanic where introduced that had a greater heat output then it could work.  I know Les Stroud advocates eating snow if you are traveling, so it could work. 

 

Now that you mention it I remember an episode where Les eats snow, for those who doesn't know, Les Stroud is an expert survivalist that had a show called survivorman for the ones interested here is one clip where he talks about eating snow.

 

18 minutes ago, Derek0311 said:

@LoneWolf5841. I also don’t think a container is required in order to do it either, but Hinterland can figure that out, we don’t have to..

 The container is more so you don't accidentally click on the snow and accidentally eat it.

Edited December 23, 2020 by LoneWolf5841

[Derek0311]

14 minutes ago, LoneWolf5841 said:

The container is more so you don't accidentally click on the snow and accidentally eat it.

I totally see what you’re trying to do.  You’re right, some mechanic will have to be in place to stop an accidental snow feast.  I wouldn’t do it the way you suggested but that fine.  We can let Hinterland figure it out, after all, it’s literally their job.  Overall, great ideas, let’s keep them coming.  These are just ideas and if we don’t hear them all, we run the risk of missing out on some real gems.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Derek0311
Edit

[LoneWolf5841]

12 minutes ago, Derek0311 said:

I totally see what you’re trying to do.  You’re right, some mechanic will have to be in place to stop an accidental snow feast.  I wouldn’t do it the way you suggested but that fine.  We can let Hinterland figure it out, after all, it’s literally their job.  Overall, great ideas, let’s keep them coming.  These are just ideas and if we don’t hear them all, we run the risk of missing out on some real gems.

Oh definitely hinterland probably could find a better way my container suggestion was just the solution I thought of first 

[UpUpAway95]

2 hours ago, LoneWolf5841 said:

Now that you mention it I remember an episode where Les eats snow, for those who doesn't know, Les Stroud is an expert survivalist that had a show called survivorman for the ones interested here is one clip where he talks about eating snow.

 

 The container is more so you don't accidentally click on the snow and accidentally eat it.

There's water right beside the snow though.  Lol  It's also not very cold out obvious.  Collect a bunch in a dark garbage bag and bury it in a snow bank such that the top of the bag is visible where the sun can get at it.  If the temperature is close to melting anyways, you'll get water every bit as clean as he's gotten from just "brushing away the top layers."  Also, snow falls in layers over time... there is no guarantee that the under layer hasn't been a top layer for a period of time.  As the top layer melts, it seeps through the layers beneath it... carrying all the impurities down into those lower layers.

You can also carry a dark plastic water bottle (dark so it gets warmer when in the sun.  Fill it with snow and carry on the top of your pack so that it is exposed to the sun as you walk.  Chances are it will melt and provide you with a little water as well.

Edited December 23, 2020 by UpUpAway95

[LoneWolf5841]

1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

There's water right beside the snow though.  Lol  It's also not very cold out obvious.  Collect a bunch in a dark garbage bag and bury it in a snow bank such that the top of the bag is visible where the sun can get at it.  If the temperature is close to melting anyways, you'll get water every bit as clean as he's gotten from just "brushing away the top layers."  Also, snow falls in layers over time... there is no guarantee that the under layer hasn't been a top layer for a period of time.  As the top layer melts, it seeps through the layers beneath it... carrying all the impurities down into those lower layers.

You can also carry a dark plastic water bottle (dark so it gets warmer when in the sun.  Fill it with snow and carry on the top of your pack so that it is exposed to the sun as you walk.  Chances are it will melt and provide you with a little water as well.

Yes there is though he gives survival tips every now and then this was just one of those survival tips just to show that it is an option he did say if you don't have access to water. I've also seen Les eat snow in colder environments. Edit- though if I remember correctly he didn't eat the snow for hydration he ate it to keep his body temperature down to prevent sweating while he worked cause as he always say in cold environments is "you sweat, you die"

Here is the official video it basically the same as what I showed earlier but from the official channel 

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by LoneWolf5841

[Mrcpu]

A calorie is the amount of heat it takes to raise the temperature of 1 ml of pure water 1 degree C at sea level so it takes 100 calories to heat 1 ml of water from 0˚ to 100˚ C or 37 calories to heat 1 ml of water from 0 to your core body temperature. Before we talk about eating snow we have to understand what a calorie is vs a Calorie.  A Calorie (uppercase C) is actually 1000 calories of energy.  When you eat a 250 Calorie food item in the game you are actually consuming 250,000 calories.

So, if you eat 100 g of snow you are going to burn about 37 Calories to heat it up in your stomach (I've over simplified for the sake of our discussion).   Based on this math I'd say that the game should work like this;  Eat a handful of snow and it increases your hydration by 100 ml but increases your hunger by say 50 Calories.

Now how about decreasing your warmth too?   I'd look at two things.  First,  look at what the game does to increase warmth when you eat or drink something hot.  Is that formula realistic and could you just inverse that for eating snow?   Second, there is a missing component (maybe I don't see it and it's there) but when you run it should increase your temperature. 

So, I 100% want to be able to eat snow but at the same time I want it to be realistic.   Realistically IRL when I'm out in the bush in the winter hiking and doing things I eat snow all the time.  I usually grab it off branches and fallen logs and not the ground but it's a fantastic way to help stay hydrated and to cool yourself down when exercising outside in the winter.   I've been doing it for almost 50 years and never got sick or died so don't listen to anyone who tells you it's dangerous.  They have little or no IRL experience.   It's just obviously better to drink boiled water if not exercising.

[oplli]

Maybe a small plastic pouch or ziplock could be added to the game. it lets you pour snow in it and you can store that bag in the accessory slot of the clothes to start melting the snow with you body temperature. it would be at last resort and not very effective