Not impressed by changes to caves in Ash Valley

[Lulzes]

So what is it with these new caves with no areas marked as "indoors" where you can sleep in the warm and cure hides and guts? And yet all of a sudden there are "indoor" warm spots in semi-sheltered outdoor areas, such as the overhang next to the Foreman's Retreat?

Please bring back proper caves...

[ManicManiac]

@Ps4Methuselah / @Lulzes

I think they were just experimenting with shallower caves that didn't have a warm "indoor" area.
With each region they have the opportunity to try out new ideas (either for trying out new terrain ideas or in some cases new game elements).

Bear in mind that the Survival Sandbox has been (from the very beginning) the test bed for the Wintermute Story Mode.  Even after the sandbox had proved extremely popular (enough to arguably stand all on it's own as a game), Survival Mode has been used to test out new ideas.

For example...

Mystery Lake & Pleasant Valley:
Experimented with "indoor structure" that exists entirely with in loaded exterior terrain (Lookout and "shallow" Caves)
Experimented with wolves in indoor locations (started with Fluffy in the dam - now relocated & expanded into a few other regions now as well)
Experimented with using broken down vehicles as shelter (expanded on into many regions now)
Experimented with "Random" Prepper Caches (found in only 2 regions since inception)

Pleasant Valley:
Experimented with "Random" Prepper Caches (found in only 2 regions since inception)
(Later with Redux - experimented with updated tree, limb, and stick textures)

Desolation Point:
Experimented with tool/weapon crafting Forge (found only in 3 regions since inception)

Forlorn Muskeg:
Thin Ice "mine field"
Experimented with tool/weapon crafting Forge (found only in 3 regions since inception)

Broken Railroad:
Experimented with tool/weapon crafting Forge (found only in 3 regions since inception)

Mountain Town:
Using a Prybar to "open" a locked building (Orca Gas Station)
Having to find a key to unlock a door to gain access to a locked building (Paradise Meadows Farmstead)

Timberwolf Mountain
Cargo Containers
Expanded on "Indoor structure" that exists completely within loaded exterior terrain (Mountaineer's Hut)
Experiment with of multi-tiered level design

Hushed River Valley:
Experimented with Improved Waterfall visuals
Experimented with Ice Caves
Experimented with using waterfalls as an obstacle/hazzard in caves and as cover for a cave entrance (later expanded to Pleasant Valley for Episode 2)

Bleak Inlet:
Experimented with more complex terrain puzzle (Cannery)
Incorporated Ammo Crafting (casting and handloading)
Experimented with Timber Wolf Packs (expanded into Pleasant Valley for Episode 2)

Ash Canyon
Experimented with smaller "shallow" caves (with no "indoor" warmth bonus)
"Ruined" Fishing Huts
Experimented with overlapping elevations to effectively make a large region even bigger (expanding on what was started with Timberwolf Mountains' multi-tiered level design)
Experimented with "rickety" bridges (bridge sways impacting player traversal)
***(perhaps there's more, but I've not fully explored the region yet - don't want spoilers, nor want to give spoilers)

I'm sure there are even more that I've forgotten about... but hopefully you get the idea.

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by ManicManiac

[ManicManiac]

11 minutes ago, Ps4Methuselah said:

Thank you for that friend...you are probably right.

Happy to help
In short, I guess I only mean to say... that those extremely shallow caves are probably just going to be in Ash Canyon.  I do not think those kinds of caves will be showing up in previous regions or anything like that.  I'm pretty sure it's just part of the "personality" of this particular region.

However, there have always been little shallow recesses (maybe by design or maybe by happy terrain building accidents) that many of us in the community have used as sheltering "cubbyholes" from time to time (there is even a thread dedicated to this).

It's possible that players finding these little nooks and crannies may have (in some small way) contributed to this interesting little bit of cave "diversity" we are starting to see in Ash Canyon. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by ManicManiac

[UpUpAway95]

16 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

Happy to help
In short, I guess I only mean to say... that those extremely shallow caves are probably just going to be in Ash Canyon.  I do not think those kinds of caves will be showing up in previous regions or anything like that.  I'm pretty sure it's just part of the "personality" of this particular region.

However, there have always been little shallow recesses (maybe by design or maybe by happy terrain building accidents) that many of us in the community have used as sheltering "cubbyholes" from time to time (there is even a thread dedicated to this).  It's possible that players finding these little nooks and crannies may have (in some small way) contributed to this interesting little bit of cave "diversity" we are starting to see in Ash Canyon. 

There are two actual shallow caves in Mountain Town, the one right at the plane crash where you start in Wintermute and another off the beaten path when you travel from the plane crash to Mountain Town.  I think some of it is just to make each area have some unique challenges to it... to make us adapt our playstyles as we venture into different areas of the map.

In Mystery Lake, there is Alan's Cave and Dave's Quiet Clearing that don't have an "indoor" area at the back either.

Edited December 17, 2020 by UpUpAway95

[ManicManiac]

2 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

There are two actual shallow caves in Mountain Town, the one right at the plane crash where you start in Wintermute and another off the beaten path when you travel from the plane crash to Mountain Town.

Ones that don't have the "indoor" status towards the back?  I don't remember that, I'd have to go back and check.  If so, neat... thank you for pointing it out.
 

5 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I think some of it is just to make each area have some unique challenges to it... to make us adapt our playstyles as we venture into different areas of the map

I think this is exactly right, and it's what I meant when I spoke about them being just part of the "personality" of this particular region. 

[ManicManiac]

16 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

In Mystery Lake, there is Alan's Cave and Dave's Quiet Clearing that don't have an "indoor" area at the back either.

You're absolutely right!  I did  forget about those two spots.  Thank you.

[odizzido]

Personally I think it sounds more interesting to have to actually deal with the cold instead of magic warm houses/caves(though the caves could be at least a little warmer because of ground heat).

[ManicManiac]

3 minutes ago, odizzido said:

Personally I think it sounds more interesting to have to actually deal with the cold instead of magic warm houses/caves

Agreed, I like it as well.
In the "standard" shallow caves, I tend to stay up front in the "outdoors" portion anyway.  I get to use my mag. lens and enjoy the fire duration bonus.  I tend to only really use the "indoor" portion of the cave for curing gut/hide.

I definitely welcome more cave diversity. 

[UpUpAway95]

45 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

You're absolutely right!  I did  forget about those two spots.  Thank you.

Yes.  I think people are taking issue with the Ash Canyon caves is because they look like they should have that "indoor" area in them and perhaps many of us had indeed forgotten other "short" caves that have existed in the game all along... a "sneaky" by Hinterland to try to catch people off guard... perhaps making the mistake of leaving hides in them to cure or going to sleep without bothering with a fire built up to last the night.  They may insert the warm areas after the Holidays once the "surprise" factor has worn off... or they may not... who knows. 😀

[Lulzes]

You guys keep referring to these new caves as "shallow" but most of them are actually much larger than the older type of cave - one of them actually has a bend in it so you can't see the entrance from the very back. 

It just seems unrealistic to me that these larger structures wouldn't provide the same warmth bonus as the old type caves. Meanwhile there is an open tunnel around the "Miner's Folly" area (with bones indicating it's a bear den) that has an "indoor" area which seems far more exposed than any cave in the game.

[UpUpAway95]

15 hours ago, Ps4Methuselah said:

I believe there is a shallow cave at the top of echo peak west in TWM.

I don't mind that the caves in AC have no warmth, what gets my goat is you cannot cure hides or saplings in them.

You have to haul everything with you until you get to a house....very slow traveling.

I agree that in an area where there are ropes and traveling is difficult, it is really a pain to have to take hides and guts long distances to start them curing.  I tend to avoid harvesting the hide and guts unless the animal is brought down near a structure where I can store them for curing.  I usually don't have a problem getting enough to craft what I want and to keep it in decent repair.

[UpUpAway95]

11 minutes ago, Ps4Methuselah said:

I especially enjoyed finding the bear skin coat...i immediately harvested it & crafted a sleeping bag with another one that had cured. +12 degrees bonus makes up for the lack of warmth in the caves.

A little heavy though.

The bear in Ash Canyon spawns pretty conveniently to civilization, so the lack of warm caves in Ash Canyon isn't really a deterrent to taking that hide.  I hate to tell you this, but there is a bear bedroll that spawns in Bleak Inlet, so now there's really no need to try to craft either item (which is going to save a lot of crafting time... and avoid a lot of potential cabin fever).  I'm not aware of any spawn of the moosehide cloak or wolfskin coat yet... perhaps in the next new zone?

[odizzido]

If the game isn't consistent I do find that a bit of an issue. If the caves are different but look exactly the same I don't like that.

[UpUpAway95]

4 minutes ago, odizzido said:

If the game isn't consistent I do find that a bit of an issue. If the caves are different but look exactly the same I don't like that.

I don't really have a lot of issue with them changing things up.  Today, in PV, I'm walking right through the  bushes that look the same as the ones that block paths in HRV and require a hatchet to remove.  I think we need a reminder every now and then that things aren't always as they seem... keeps us on our toes.

[gotmilkanot]

I never bother sleeping in those "fake" caves in AC on Interloper, there are plenty of warm outdoor spots elsewhere in the region where you can sleep without a fire + cure hides/guts/saplings.

Some examples include the "cave" near Wolf's Jaw Overlook on the way to the gold mine, and Climber's Cave. I've slept through nights with ongoing blizzards in those locations before, with just 22°C clothing + normal bedroll. No need for an overnight fire, no need for double bearskin coats (though I'm wearing one + mackinaw) or the bearskin bedroll. Those are way too heavy and not really necessary.

The outdoor shed with the workbench in Miner's Folly also has a warmer segment - the one you need to crouch to go in. Never slept there overnight before but it's warm enough to sleep/pass time without a fire during the day.