Update: A proper pupper (Idea/Wish)

[Pawsitive]

Hello fellas,

Not a native speaker here, just for your information.

A few days ago I wrote an E-Mail to Hinterland with some ideas that I had for the game. I didn't know about this forum, but wanted to share my thoughts.

Well, I got an answer from the team and I'm absolutely excitied about it! But let me share both with you, my mail and the answer.

 

My Mail:

Dear Hinterland-Team,

it's me again, Pawsitive. I recently started playing TLD again and fell in love with this game one more time. Having a great stalker-playtrough, started on timberwolf mountain peak (with a mod, I call this kind of start "last passenger") and pave my way all over Great Bear, mainly mapping.
I told you last time how great I think this game is and I'm seeing forward to episode 4! Can't wait to find out how Will and Astrid are doing and what new gameplay mechanics and regions you are giving us again. It's so exciting every time!

Well, during my current playtrough I've been thinking about a few things that might go well with the this great game.
I'm sure you already had some of these ideas yourself (some are really obvious), but you wrote a lot of times that player feedback is important to you, so I thought I'd just write down what's on my mind.

1.) The Wildlife
To be honest, I miss some animals from canada. I know it's difficult to program animals in realistic ways, but so far you've done it well. And I would love to see foxes and owls in this game! Maybe even geese? But I'm sure, that's a thing you're thinking about too.

2.) Jerky and Salt
Especially in long-term-playtroughs it becomes kind of repetitive to hunt the animals and cook their meat as fast as you can to store it in an outside container, because that is where it will last the longest.
So how about if the meat could be further processed? For example with smokers, in which you can make dried meat (they could be stationary such as the blacksmiths or workbenches). Or by letting sea salt boil down to get salt that can be used to cure meat?
It would be kinda balanced as well. For the smokers, for example, we would have to keep a fire alive for a very long time and also stay relatavely close to it. But the reward, long-lasting Jerky, would be worth the challenge, wouldn't it?

3.) Whale oil
You already have the whailing station Hibernia Processing. Wouldn't it be nice to have a possibility to get a new kind of fuel or even high-calorie meat? In the end of Episode 3 (stunning shot by the way! Still my desktop background) the player even see dead whales, so ... please?

4.) Fluffy's heir
We all know, the darkwalker is Fluffy's vengeful ghost! And we all miss her. So ... now to my most elaborate idea.
I know, the maintask in TLD is surviving. And it should stay that way! I just thought about how nice it would be to have ... a friend.
Imagine the following, please:
We (the player) walks over a great bear, it's cold, the wind is lashing towards us. We are cold, hungry, we don't have much food left with us, we are desperately looking for shelter from the upcoming blizzard - and we find it too. A cave on a very remote path. We make it in and discover a dead wolf and a puppy by his side, desperately crying. We share the little leftover meat that we have with the little one and get new courage. We warm the puppy at night and go hunting the next day. Not too far from the cave because the little one could freeze to death. We kill a deer, regain our strength together with the puppy and take him back to our camp. We take care of him for months, he grows and is finally big and strong enough to accompany us on the hunt.

I know that would have a huge impact on the game and it's just a wish from one player, but I couldn't resist to share it with you. And part of the mechanics for that are already in the game: the passengers which we save as Astrid during episode 3. It was so thrilling to do that and even emotional impacting (me, at least)

Keep up the great work! TLD is fantastic and the absolute king of survival games, in my humble opinion.

Stay safe and healthy,
Pawsitive

________________________________

And here's what they answered:

Hi Pawsitive,

Thanks for your feedback, we appreciate it when players share their game experiences with us and often refer to it when planning future updates to the game. I've collated your thoughts and passed them on to the team. For what it's worth, I think a wolf buddy would be an awesome addition to the game!

If you like discussing ideas for the game with other players, you might also wish to share your suggestion in our Wish List forum: http://www.hinterlandforums.com/forums/forum/33-wish-list

Best wishes,

-Hinterland Support

________________________________

I know, he or she was probably just polite to say that, but I'm so happy about it!

In fact, this happiness inspired me to a few new thoughts about that little wolf buddy – and that's why I'm here. (I drew the wolf pup myself and tried to imitate the TLD-Style a little)

I may introduce you to the

where you can adopt and raise a wolfpup! Let's call him Muffin for now. It can be a girl too, of course! It's just more simple to write this way.

 

Muffin's Features:

 

• You can discover an orphaned wolfpup in a random cave in any region (one per playtrough, gender is random and is revealed by the first contact)

• You have the opportunity to care for him, but it's a hard and long task

• Muffin has 3 growth stages before he get's "helpful" (A half ingame-year maybe?)

• Muffin can (and will) die if you don't care for him enough

• You can train him, to make him a survivor, just like you!

• Once he is matured, your wolf buddy will:

  • • follow you anywhere

    • help you hunting

    • carrying things for you

    • try to protect you from any harm (even bears and moose)

    • warm you in cold nights

    • find things for you

    • help you not to get lost

    • be the goodest of boys (or girls)

 

Stage 1: The vulnerable baby wolf

 

This stage is the hardest. The pup is kind of stationary (like the passengers in episode 3) needs constantly warmth, food and drink. For your luck, the little one already eats meat, but you have to prepare it nicely.

 

You can carry Muffin around. The warmer your clothes, the longer you can carry him through the cold - but he's a pup and always searches for milk, so he nibbles on your inner jacket constantly.

 

Muffin will most likely die if you get attacked while carrying him.

 

You can't leave him alone for long, even indoors and not only 'cause of a lack of warmth or hunger. Muffin will start crying loudly after a while – which attracts predators and it could be difficult to reach your house in time to feed him, if it's surrounded by a wolfpack or stalked by a bear.

 

Outside it's even more dangerous. After a while Muffin will start looking for you, leaving the warming fire behind himself (very slowly, but still).

 

I think you've got the idea.

 

Maybe, the player get's a buff after a few days caring for the little one. "Mothers/Fathers love". It could lower your hunger and thirst rate a bit or give you more energy. Just a thought, what do you think?

 

Stage 2: The curious puppy

 

Your little wolf buddy will no longer be stationary. He can have a look around and explore the cold world (I want these adorable flappy ears in this state!). He will follow you, no matter what. You are his pack, you are his world.

And he has to learn. So much to learn.

 

First, you have to protect him. Predators will attack him first, not you. He's the easier prey.

If he get's attacked, you can save him. Either with a good shot or by attacking the predator with one of your tools.

If your puppy get's wounded, he has a very similiar health-system like the player, but weaker. You have to attend to his wounds immediatly and you have to wait until his health is restored (he fall back to Stage 1, you can carry him to a near fire or a safe place)

 

Second, you have to hunt with him. He has to see every prey you like to hunt with him later. You should harvest some stuff to. Maybe he'll remember the smell?

The region in which you raise him should therefore be chosen wisely.

 

On your travels with Muffin he could get distracted by something. He's a playful puppy after all. So you always have to make sure that he doesn't get lost. He never strays far from you anyways, but it's still dangerous.

 

In this stage you can already feed him dog food and other things that have meat in it but fresh meat will satisfy him more and will increase his hunting skills.

 

Climbing will become difficult. You have to get or craft a harness for him, to elevate him. If you fall down with him, you both get injured.

 

Stage 3: The young wolf

 

For the first time your little wolf will become more independent and has learned some commands.

 

Stay:

He will stay and don't follow you. If he get's attacked while he is waiting for you, he will flee in your direction. If he begins to freeze, he will walk to the next fire. If there's no fire, he will follow you. If he gets hungry (he will have a bowl which fills him at least one day) he will follow you.

If you get attacked, he will run towards you, even when you are far away but you have to be in the same region.

 

Follow me:

He will stay by your side, no matter what. He will try to protect you, but he isn't at his full strength yet.

 

Hunt:

If you shoot a deer, he can follow it and will try to take it down trough bites. If you can't keep up with him and he kills the deer, he will come back to you and will show you the spoils of the hunt but because of his young age the chance to hunt successfully for him is quite low. If he get's to far away from you, he will come back.

 

Search:

If you find blood, he can pick up the scent and guide you to it's origin.

 

Let's go home:

He will guide you to the place where his bowl is located.

 

Whistle:

Whistle for him and he will come to you.

 

In this stage all of this skills have a relatively common chance to fail (except for "With me").

You still have to care for his wounds if he get's attacked, but he will follow you even when wounded, he just can't run.

His hunger rate drops significantly in this stage. Real wolves don't have to eat everyday but he will eat from a carcass or his bowl, if you allow it.

 

You can train your wolf in this stage to different scents like gunpowder, oil and even birch bark, old man's beard lichen, rose hip or reishi mushrooms.

If he learned a scent, you can tell him to search for this kind of things. He will lead you to them then.

 

Stage 4: The best friend

 

You did it. You've raised a wolfpup which was about to die. You protected it, fed it, and trained it.

And now?

Now you have a friend for life.

 

He has now perfected all the things he has learned in stage 3. He will accompany you on your task to survive on great bear. He will protect you with his life. And his death WILL be by your side. Even if he's starving, because both of you are unable to find food anymore, he'll just look at you with loyalty and love.

 

If you leave him behind (because you may go in another region without him) he will stay in the region where you left him – until the hunger drives him on. (He can get out of houses) And even then he will follow your scent.

He can hunt for himself now, so he probably won't die anytime soon but great bear is dangerous. He will try to find you, no matter what.

You are his pack. You are his whole world.

You've raised him.

 

Other Features:

 

Items:

• bowls (for water and food, placeable)

• dog harness (to find or to craft)

• dog backpack (10 kg storage – with the scent-mechanism, so be careful!)

• chopped meat (to feed the puppy)

 

Animations & Voice lines:

 

• If you left him in a house and come back, he will greet you!

• If you left him for a few hours, he will greet you!

• You can pet him everytime!

• If you sleep in you sleeping bag, he will lay down next to you!

• (Stage 1, first encounter) You will pick the puppy up. The Character could say "Poor little thing, are you all alone? Don't be afraid, I'm here now, litte ... boy/girl"

• (Stage 1, carrying it) The Charakter will stuff the little one in his jacket.

  • • "There you go, little one. Safe and sound."

    • "Here you are safe."

    • "Hush now, little one."

• (Stage 2, 3 & 4, if he's wounded and you take care of him) The Charakter kneels next to him, petting him.

  • • "It's okay ... it's okay. I'm here."

    • "Don't be afraid. It will be alright."

    • "Don't die on me now, pal!"

    • "Don't die before I do."

    • "Hold still, it will be better soon."

• (Stage 2, if you catch up with him) The Charakter pets him. The puppy smiles panting.

  • • "Here you are!"

    • "Don't go astray, it's dangerous out here!"

    • "What did I say, pal? Stay with me."

• (Stage 4, if you left him for a long time)

  • • "Oh my god, you're still waiting ..." (Hachiko reference)

 

And anything you and Hinterland can think about!

What do you say to this? Any other ideas? For example, I don't know how Muffin should behave during an aurora.

And should his (adult) scent scare wild wolves away from your home after a few days?

 

I'm looking forward to your feedback!

 

Stay healthy,

Pawsitive

Edited November 15, 2020 by Pawsitive

[thekillergreece]

Dude, it would be actually cool to have furry companions in-game. In fact, I kept asking for wolfdog/dogs as companions in-game, the community have been asking for it since ages.

"For what it's worth, I think a wolf buddy would be an awesome addition to the game!" That's actually awesome but I doubt a developer said it, unfortunately. Most likely a Social Media member.

Regardless, it would be pretty cool to have companions in-game, albeit they should be ultra rare to find (Perhaps 1-2 each game, regardless of region) to as to prevent ruining the whole loneliness, etc. This could also encourage the players to take care of their furry more.

Fingers crossed if they actually make it a thing.

[Mroz4k]

Hi, and welcome to the forums! Hope you enjoy your stay!

Your ideas are pretty elaborate (I appreciate that a lot! Always really nice to have a detailed suggestion as there is so much more potential to discuss, suggest improvements and changes, and overal have a fruitful discussion!) It will take me a bit to go over your idea of a pupper, yet there are some suggestions Id like to make right away:

1) More animals! Yes! But we also should discuss animals that would bring a lot to the game, in terms of resources, difficulty and overal immersion! I kind of dont think they will add a fox or an owl into the game as a huntable animal. Fox would really just be a small predator - for its meat, it would be somewhere between wolf and a rabbit in terms of caloric value, and it would be a meat of a predator - aka succeptible to parasites. The pelt would be somewhat useful - I imagine it would be used to make decent extremedy clothes - I can think of a shawl of sorts, or maybe gloves, that sort of thing. It is a small animal and not really a wise choice for big clothing items. However, one way foxes could be an animal that affects gameplay - in a way that they would be the predators to hunt down rabbits or steal rabbits from snares. AKA a fox would have a chance to spawn around rabbit carcasses after they are lying down for a while, and attempt to pick them up. As such, you could also snare foxes by putting down rabbits or meats near snares. I think in that way, fox would be a great little animal added into the game! I would certainly not mind the foxes in the game!

Owls would not serve much of a point, Im afraid. They would yield very little food, would be hard to hit, and only be active during the night when basically nobody is usually hunting. I would not mind if you could find owl feathers around outside and if you could maybe spot them flying rarely, but I dont think they should be an actual huntable animal. Also, it would be a bird animal - kinda really challenging to program in with the game we already have, I think. For those reasons, I prefer owls the way they are - as an ambiance during the non-windy nights.

Personally, Id love to see Mountain lion and mountain sheep added into the game - as animals that would be found in specific regions, like Timberwolf mountain and Hushed river valley - to entice players to go and hunt them! Made a post on my idea for these two animals in a different topic today.

Jerky and salt - both very popular suggestions, so its quite possible they will be added in the future! I like your approach quite a lot! A "smoker" being a building that is placed around the world could force players to move about the game a bit more, or reconsider their base placement. I think I made a similar suggestion in the past, too. It could easily be a big wood undertaking, for sure, but smokers usually dont use up that much firewood, as a normal fire would - its more about being stoked from burning and just steaming. The salt idea is also quite nice - it would basically be just an issue of being able to fill bottles with saltwater from a fishing hole in ocean-based fishing holes. I hope they add a cooking-based update. It would be really nice if there were other options for food, and other tools to have, like frying pans, soup for cooking, and so on.

Little tip: Store raw meat, and dont use containers outside, unless you really want to. Raw meat at 0% can still be cooked, which increases its durability to 50%, making it quite edible. And it would take a long time for the food to become spoiled outside. Unless you are over-hunting, you should be able to utilize the meat before it goes really bad. The issue with containers is that items with 0% condition in them dissapear.

3) Whale oil - I understand the idea, but I dont think it would be a very good addition for survival mode, unless it was added as a part of a Story mode first (Story mode spoiler for Episode 3: for example like the food items in the crashed airplane being there in survival mode as well). But I agree with you that another source of lantern fuel would be great! There is one that is very viable and well known to homesteaders - which is a trick to extract oils out of a birch bark. Made a suggestion about this, you can read it in this link! Additionally, one could also extract kerosene out of coal (or I read about coal oils being viable too) - but those would need some distillery or a lab, perhaps something like that could also be found in some location on the island.

4) Pupper - a dream of mine and of many others, Im sure. A companion to have in the quiet apocalypse. It would be so nice...

I will have to read your idea further in bigger detail, but one thing that caught my mind and what I think would be quite immersion-breaking for most players. That the pupper would be a wolf. Wolves, even from a young age, are notoriously difficult to raise and domesticate. Their genes make themselves known and they would disobey and just grow up to be wild for the most part. That said - it could be some mutt, either a stray pup of a dog who ran away during the time apocalypse came about or maybe a cross-breed between a dog and a wolf, but from what I understand about dogs and wolves, that does not really happen. 

For aurora - this is a tough one. If its indeed a wolf, it should definitely become hostile. Which brings a lot of issues with keeping a pupper around at home when sleeping. If it were a dog, it shouldnt be hostile, but could perhaps act cowardly, as I expect people would not like to lose their dog as it rushes off into a pack of two aurora wolves that are juiced up on EMP.

 

[k0s0ff]

wow. This looks like a lot of work.

I would like to add on my own behalf that they don't want to catch the Fox. Because this is the developers ' logo. But for example, the Arctic Fox. 

White and not noticeable in the night. And just to the North. According to my standards.

 

And one more thing. I agree that a dog should be a friend. Otherwise, this is a very cool and well-developed offer.

 

[Pawsitive]

Wow, thanks for the long answer Mroz4k!

I will read your linked post as soon I have time for it. And thanks for the tip with the raw meat.

Your points are good too.

- I just want owls as an immersive animal, not a huntable one :3 Your ideas for the foxes are great. I would love it.

- The stationary smokers are neccessary, I think. As you say, to make the player more of a nomad.

- A wolfdog or a husky would be better, I guess. Didn't thought about it, tbh. I just love wolves And the fearful option for the aurora is a very good idea.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Pawsitive

[ManicManiac]

  I still don't think it would fit with the lore of the game.  Specifically that the aurora's effect causes carnivorous animals to get preternaturally aggressive and hostile.

On 8/31/2019 at 5:37 AM, ManicManiac said:

reasonably consistent with the lore of the game, even if we did find one... it would probably immediately try to eat our faces off due to the effects the aurora (in that carnivores animals are preternaturally aggressive and blood thirsty)

On 9/11/2019 at 2:01 AM, ManicManiac said:

It's a neat idea, it really is... I just don't think it would fit with the lore of the game very well.  I've had this subject on my wish lists before (a while back).  The conversation sort of came to the realization that they would most likely just turn hyper-aggressive like the other carnivores in the game.  Making this particular type of animal companion somewhere in between "extremely dangerous" and "just not possible under the circumstances."

On 10/16/2019 at 12:42 AM, ManicManiac said:

from the lore we already know the "reason why" the animals in the game behave the way they do (i.e. the "geomagnetic event" that gives rise to the auroras in the game).  This is the reason given for their uncharacteristically aggressive behavior and elevated territorial ferocity.

Edited November 15, 2020 by ManicManiac

[Mroz4k]

22 minutes ago, Pawsitive said:

I just want owls as an immersive animal, not a huntable one :3 Your ideas for the foxes are great. I would love it.

I remember an idea long ago, to add a fox as a bit of a "mysterious animal" - it was something about it just being an artwork animation in the game. I loved that idea too. If the owl was the same, it would be incredible.

To elaborate on what was meant - basically, very rarely, when you would leave indoor locations, you would have a very short animation played, of like a fox, peaking from behind a hill not far off, noticing the player, and just booking it into a little hole, way to fast for the player to react. It was basically just supposed to be there to give more depth to the game. 

It would be quite nice to see owls swooping around at night, scouting for little rodents. 

22 minutes ago, Pawsitive said:

The stationary smokers are neccessary, I think. As you say, to make the player more of a nomad.

I dont neccesarily think that hunkering down is a bad thing, it comes down to each persons preferred playstyle. But, for the people who enjoy homesteading more, they should have some prompts to visit other locations too, else there is a huge risk of the game, becoming repetitive and less fun that way. So yea, I agree with you, smokers in set locations would be great.

22 minutes ago, Pawsitive said:

A wolfdog would be better, I guess. Didn't thought about it, tbh. I just love wolves

I never made such an elaborate suggestion on the Dog companion before, but I made one about a dog one in the past. If I recall it, it was basically a runaway dog of a similar ilk to a wolf (I had Husky in mind) but a dog nonetheless. With it, being hungry and distrustful/semi-hostile to the player, but if you fed it, and basically visited it often with food, maybe even treated its injuries, you would build a rapport and the doggo would accept the player as its new master. It is not unrealistical to imagine that people owned such animals on Great bear, and through misfotunate death of their master, or simply because their master was not at home and was cut-off by the Aurora incident, that a dog would eventually run off due to hunger and other needs. As such they would be mistrustful towards human, but still basically domesticated animal, and the idea of "taming" it would be more TLD realistic, in my opinion.

Never considered it to be a pup, though. I love that idea. It could bring so much more activities to be done together, with the pupper needing some proper training, and the development of friendship being all the more impactful to players.

8 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

I still don't think it would fit with the lore of the game.  Specifically that the aurora's effect causes carnivorous animals to get preternaturally aggressive and hostile.

Sorry to say, but that is a very dangerous assumption you made there. That the effect of Aurora has an effect of aggression on all carnivorous animals. After all, humans can be carnivors, too. (Of course, you could say that humans are sentient beings, or that based on Story mode, people were more violent during Aurora, though it seems that was more out of fear then anything else, or out of a simple fact that they were extremists, or outright criminals).

We dont actually know and we cant even know if the domesticated animals react violently to Aurora, based on the currently known information.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Mroz4k

[ManicManiac]

7 minutes ago, Mroz4k said:

but that is a very dangerous assumption you made there. That the effect of Aurora has an effect of aggression on all carnivorous animals.

...well so far the wolves, timber wolves, and bears are all affected in this way... plus we're talking about finding and raising a wolf pup (and in some threads dog).  So if wolves are affected... the I think it's reasonable to "assume" that a wolf we are trying to have as a companion would also be affected.  On the other note... dogs being a close relative of the wolf, I think it's also safe to say they would likely be affected as well.

After all:
Wolf (Canis Lupus)
Dog (Canis Lupus Familiaris)

Don't get me wrong, I do think it's a neat idea... I just don't think it's very plausible given the lore.
I'm not bad mouthing the idea... I'm just pointing out the lore.

Edited November 15, 2020 by ManicManiac

[Pawsitive]

@ManicManiac
You aren't bad mouthing, no worries! Criticism is important. Such an (p)update should please all players if possible and follow the logic of the game.

I think domesticated animals would be more aggressive too, yes, there you are right, I guess. But - call me mawkish - I think if we raise a pup no matter which breed and bound with him strong enough, it could kind of "resist" the aurora ...?

[ManicManiac]

3 minutes ago, Pawsitive said:

I think if we raise a pup no matter which breed and bound with him strong enough, it could kind of "resist" the aurora

Sure, perhaps so...

And after all, it is a fictional setting... there is nothing saying that the effects of the aurora have to be consistent.  Ultimately Hinterland can do whatever they like with the world they've created.

While I think an animal companion could be a nice touch... I do worry that it might also undermine (a little bit) one of the core themes of the game; that being loneliness and isolation.

Again, I don't dislike the idea... in fact animal companion was part of my very first post when I joined this forum a couple years ago.  I was just looking at it from both the lore and what the creators have established with their choices for the game up to this point.  If Hinterland ever choose to incorporate something like this, then cool.  If not, I like to think I'd understand the reasons why. 

[Mroz4k]

31 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

Don't get me wrong, I do think it's a neat idea... I just don't think it's very plausible given the lore.
I'm not bad mouthing the idea... I'm just pointing out the lore.

Yea, sorry if it seemed like I was snapping out. Not my intention - all feedback has merit. But I do believe it is important to differenciate between domesticated and wild animals.

I would agree that a wolf in itself would, even if domesticated, still probably be hostile during Aurora. After all, you cant just unlearn its genes and instincts. But, for that same reason, a dog who was born into domestic environment, left or fled due to various reasons and even if abused by people, it can later be rehabilitated to live and love people again. Due to the centuries of domestication that happened prior to it being born.

The aurora wolves arent brainless killing machines - they leave each other alone. I would suspect that aurora intensifies the hunter instict in animals, thus making the predators so much more eager to attack and with more fervor. If that was the case, domesticated wolf who holds no hunter instinct towards its master should in theory not be hostile.

That said - if your companion suddenly turned hostile, it would bring a new dilemma - you get into a struggle with them, do you use a weapon to defend youself, and kill them this way? Or will you try to subdue them, at a huge bodily harm to yourself? It would make for a very difficult decision in a split of a second. 

If one could tie the dog/wolfie down, it would be feasible to have a dog who could turn hostile during aurora, even in your proximity. What I would do in that situation would be to tie the dog down very carefuly to a chain I would be confident he cant snap from. I would not make it uncomfortable, but I would definitely make it secure. And I would sleep in the top bunk just to be sure  

[TiffTastic]

I really like the wolf pup idea. I don’t think it’s incompatible myself, for the reason mroz4k states, they do not attack each other During Aurora.  Raised by the player, it would see them as a pack member not prey.

 

I think the mechanic elements pawsitive outlined make it complex enough and time intensive enough that the effort expended would counterbalance the late stage benefit enough so as not to break the game or anything. And it’s a practical adaptation that has likely actually occurred many hundreds of times independently throughout human history.

 

It would combat the loneliness a bit but not in a way that npc companions or characters in the game would. To me it would add a level of complexity I would enjoy.

 

I guess it could be turned on or off too. Or if someone is particularly bent I guess they can kill poor little Wolfie. Maybe that can give like a negative feat or something.

 

Tiff🦋

 

 

[Mr. 0]

Nice and detailed but:

1. Animal AI is broken, especially in indoor areas. You have to hard code your furry buddy behaviour in all interiours (playing, lying, etc), basicly second AI tree just for this task. AI for rest of behaviour not even mentioned.

2. Wolves arent best animals for training. Domesticated wolf breeds, like Czechoslovak wolfhound can be very dangerous. Even if trained properly.

3. Also most hard players would harvest puppy for a meal.

4. When you find a puppy, will be here option to harvest it? (Like limb or carcass)?

5. Dog puppy sounds more plausible, however how it could survive before your arrival? Maybe whinig next to dead body?

Edited November 15, 2020 by Mr. 0

[Pawsitive]

@TiffTastic Thanks for your positive feedback!

@Mr. 0

1.) That's a part I know about, but I believe that Hinterland would be able to fix this properly. As far as I know the animals haven't been reworked for a long time. Maybe they will fix it soon?

2.) The others mentioned this before. A Husky would do it too, perhaps the player can even craft a sled for carrying things. And it lowers the lore-breaking-aurora-resisting-wolf-thing.

3.) That wouldn't be worth it, a wolf pup gives hardly more meat than a rabbit. (And I don't think that many players would be so cruel)

4.) Just ... no? Leave the pup behind then. It will freeze to death. You can harvest his mother.

5.) Well ... yeah it would whine, I guess which attracts predators. Maybe when the player set a first step in the region the pup is located, you hear it whining and a countdown starts or something like that. And you have to follow the sounds in order to find the cave, scare the predators away and save the little one.

Edit:

Seriously, who would kill an innocent baby wolf? If the player does that, he spawns the darkwalker! <defiant noises>

Edited November 15, 2020 by Pawsitive

[Mr. 0]

Long dark can be played in any way. If you choose to harvest puppy for a meal, you should be able to do it. Its survival.

Or you know what? Keep it as living can of meat. And after it becomes big and yummy, mr. revolver will take care. Its sad, but in Interloper scenario, plausible (except mr. revolver, lol).

Also you could push for some official answer from dev team. You made effort, they could answer.

Edited November 15, 2020 by Mr. 0

[Pawsitive]

Quote

Also you could push for some official answer from dev team. You made effort, they could answer.

What do you mean? How can I push things?

[Mr. 0]

just ask them for feedback, right?

[Pawsitive]

I thought that is a feature from the forum or something like that ^^"

How do I ask them? Is there any other way to contact them besides an direct e-mail?

[Mroz4k]

Yea, you should not try to push it any more then through the Forums - maybe on the Reddit and steam forums as well, but not by approaching Hinterland. Being here for a long time, I can say with a certainty that the things suggested by community the most are the ones most likely to be implemented. With that said, best way to increase the chances is to keep your thread alive, or revive it from time to time to gain more opinions and feedback from other community members, increase interest in the idea to make it more popular and more requested.

Some examples: Ammo crafting, Birch bark tea, rabbitskin hat, and more, Im sure. All very widely requested ideas, shared by the community here.

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Mroz4k

[Pawsitive]

Thanks for the advice

[Mroz4k]

As promised, I dived a bit more indepth into your suggestions! Here would be my notes for it:

As mentioned before, I think it would be better if the pupper was a dog, rather then a wolf. First of all, it means different textures, which makes your pupper more distictive from wolves and timberwolves. Could be one of the "big" races of a doggo - German shepperd, for example, or Husky, maybe Bernardine... Could be a decent idea for a poll what would community want the most. Either one of these dog races could stand up to a wolf in their adult stage, in my opinion.

Features: One per game? I dont think that would be a good idea. It is probable that at some point, you might lose your companion. I think you should be able to run across another pupper after you spend some time without one. They should be very rare, for sure. Maybe at like 50 days after losing your pup, you would have a chance to come across another. Also, I am not against an idea of having more then one. If the Husky was the chosen dog breed, you could eventually raise like 4 dogs, and could use them to sled around the place for a quite fast transportation around some regions. 

I like the idea that raising the doggo/wolfie would be a difficult task. Difficult tasks = good in TLD. Anything to add more late-game tasks to keep an interest in the game.
Big fan of the different stages of adulthood, but I would probably rework them quite a bit. And maybe make them even more indepth - how fast would the pupper grow up would depend on how well its taken cared of. Basically feeding it and taking care of it the same way you would take care of a survivor in Ep. 3.

Absolutely "yes" to training! The way you described the pupper learning commands, I would rework that. I know you wanted to make it less chaos during the adulthood of the pupper, but I think the ability of a pupper to respond to the commands should mostly come from how much effort you put into training it. In a way, you could increase its "survival skills" the same way survivor skills are handled. And training would be the way to increase its loyalty and ability to follow more and more complex commands.

"Trying to protect you from harm, even from bears etc..." I like it, but I would do this part differently. Rather then having the wolfie be a super-beast, able to knife-fight a brown bear, I think the doggos should offer a help in struggle by barking at the predator, distracting it, which would make it possible for Player to actually "Struggle" during a moose or Bear attack.

(I have much more to write, but dead tired - will continue once I wake up )

 

[ManicManiac]

Perhaps something like this might be best as a dedicated Challenge Mode. 

One where we come across a badly injured canine calling out for help...
The main focus of the challenge being not only to nurse it back to health, but also to see how long you can survive with an extra mouth to feed.

I'm not sure I'd like the idea of this being added into the Survival Sandbox (much for the same reasons I wouldn't want human NPCs to invade the Survival either).  However a challenge featuring this I think could be really nice.

There are challenges already that aren't time dependent (The Hunted, Part 1 and As the Dead Sleep for examples)... meaning one could potentially keep the same Challenge run going for a very long time.

Edited November 17, 2020 by ManicManiac

[k0s0ff]

4 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

One where we come across a badly injured canine calling out for help...

However, this is a good idea not only for the dog. A and one or a group of survivors to take care of. Although something like this was already in the story mode...

I must say I really liked this idea in episode 3. Finally, I wasn't taking care of myself.

26 minutes ago, Mroz4k said:

(I have much more to write, but dead tired - will continue once I wake up )

 

I hope you have a good rest. I like the idea of a different color. But here's the sled and the team. The game does not have many places where you can easily travel. And if you make a limited number of places where you can travel like this. Then the community will start to get upset and ask for it to be like this everywhere. And this in turn entails a huge change in the world map. I'm sorry, but I like the idea.

[Mr. 0]

Technically, devs could avoid a lot of trouble by simplyfy the mechanics.

1. Growing up would be stationary (puppy only as placeable object), only system of animations and "living" AI required. Plus some additional animations, when carrying (like puppy's head in player´s FOV).

2. "Teenager" and adult could be same, just with different parameters.

3. All gameplay could be minimalised to basic behaviour:

◻️ Following player

 ◻️ Orders for scavenge items and animals

 ◻️ Manual transport by player thru inaccesible paths (Rope, etc), solved already for puppy state, cuz you need to carry it anyway

 ◻️ Simplified AI for indoor locations (houses/caves). List of animations or movement, like for NPC in story mode. Mostly stationary. Indoor locations are repetitible, so it can be defined once and it projects into all same interiours. In real application it means setiing of sitting or lying spots and pathways between them.

 

Sounds pretty easy, right.  

Edited November 17, 2020 by Mr. 0

[Pawsitive]

9 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

As mentioned before, I think it would be better if the pupper was a dog, rather then a wolf. First of all, it means different textures, which makes your pupper more distictive from wolves and timberwolves. Could be one of the "big" races of a doggo - German shepperd, for example, or Husky, maybe Bernardine... Could be a decent idea for a poll what would community want the most. Either one of these dog races could stand up to a wolf in their adult stage, in my opinion.

I agree with that. It should be a "canadian" breed or a dog who's common in canada. Like the "Seppala Siberian Sleddog" or the "Nothern Inuit Dog". And of course a Husky. I don't know for sure, if German Shepperds could stand such cold weather for long.

A Poll would be great.

9 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

Features: One per game? I dont think that would be a good idea. It is probable that at some point, you might lose your companion. I think you should be able to run across another pupper after you spend some time without one. They should be very rare, for sure. Maybe at like 50 days after losing your pup, you would have a chance to come across another. Also, I am not against an idea of having more then one. If the Husky was the chosen dog breed, you could eventually raise like 4 dogs, and could use them to sled around the place for a quite fast transportation around some regions. 

I actually love the idea of having 4 sleddogs. But as @k0s0ff mentioned, it would be difficult to make this work. I'm thinking of that damn bridge between ML and CH ... to give just one example. In addition to that, 4 dogs would eat a lot. Maybe to much.

And I quite like the Idea of just ONE Dog. One and only one. It would impact the player much, much more if there's just one pupper per playtrough. The breed, however could be chosen in the menu, like the region you start in. And of course you can disable the pupper completely.

9 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

I like the idea that raising the doggo/wolfie would be a difficult task. Difficult tasks = good in TLD. Anything to add more late-game tasks to keep an interest in the game.

Exactly my opinion.

9 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

Big fan of the different stages of adulthood, but I would probably rework them quite a bit. And maybe make them even more indepth - how fast would the pupper grow up would depend on how well its taken cared of. Basically feeding it and taking care of it the same way you would take care of a survivor in Ep. 3.

My idea outlined above was just food for thought. I would love more depht in the grow-stages! I just wanted to keep it "doable" for the dev-team.

9 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

Absolutely "yes" to training! The way you described the pupper learning commands, I would rework that. I know you wanted to make it less chaos during the adulthood of the pupper, but I think the ability of a pupper to respond to the commands should mostly come from how much effort you put into training it. In a way, you could increase its "survival skills" the same way survivor skills are handled. And training would be the way to increase its loyalty and ability to follow more and more complex commands.

I am completely with you. Would be great, but extremly difficult to develope, I think. The idea to give our Dog quite the same skill-system like the player is great. Could be ... let me think ... "Obedience", "Tracking", "Protecting" ...

And I want a different way to skill it. Books don't help with dog training. The player should really invest time and effort in training. For example, protecting could be trained with a special item, like a thick crafted leatherglove. Tracking could be trained by actively hiding / placing things of a certain type in the immediate vicinity. Something like that.

9 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

"Trying to protect you from harm, even from bears etc..." I like it, but I would do this part differently. Rather then having the wolfie be a super-beast, able to knife-fight a brown bear, I think the doggos should offer a help in struggle by barking at the predator, distracting it, which would make it possible for Player to actually "Struggle" during a moose or Bear attack.

That's a GREAT idea! The dog could jump at the bear/moose and bite it to make it possible to "struggle" for the player during the fights. Or - if he's trained properly - he could play the "bait" to allow the player to land a few well-aimed shots.

9 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

(I have much more to write, but dead tired - will continue once I wake up )

Have a good rest, I'm seeing forward to your further response!

9 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

Perhaps something like this might be best as a dedicated Challenge Mode.

Not a fan of this, tbh. Just give the player the opportunity to disable the dog-stuff in a sandbox. Problem solved.

1 hour ago, Mr. 0 said:

Technically, devs could avoid a lot of trouble by simplyfy the mechanics.

1. Growing up would be stationary (puppy only as placeable object), only system of animations and "living" AI required. Plus some additional animations, when carrying (like puppy's head in player´s FOV).

2. "Teenager" and adult could be same, just with different parameters.

3. All gameplay could be minimalised to basic behaviour:

◻️ Following player

 ◻️ Orders for scavenge items and animals

 ◻️ Manual transport by player thru inaccesible paths (Rope, etc), solved already for puppy state, cuz you need to carry it anyway

 ◻️ Simplified AI for indoor locations (houses/caves). List of animations or movement, like for NPC in story mode. Mostly stationary. Indoor locations are repetitible, so it can be defined once and it projects into all same interiours. In real application it means setiing of sitting or lying spots and pathways between them.

I understand your approach and your idea of making it easier for the developers, but I'm not a fan of the idea, to be honest.

If the devs like this idea and our approach to it, I want a lively dog. Much animations, sounds and stuff.

It would be such a great addition to this wonderful game ... finally, after months and months of surviving all by ourselves, we finally would have a companion. A friend. Someone to take care of. Someone that gives us a purpose to survive. Especially in long term playthroughs, I often ask myself "What for?"

A companion would erease this question completely. For myself at least.

"You've given me a reason for livin'
Lit the fire inside me!
Survival ain't a worthwhile mission
Without you beside me ..."
- JT Music, "I'm the infection" (The last of us 2 Song)

Thanks for all your input, guys!

Edited November 17, 2020 by Pawsitive