Multiple NPCs wtihin a given region

[LucidFugue]

Not sure if anyone else noticed this, but you can take items/search drawers marked red (as in, owned by an NPC) for the cost of trust. I accidentally opened a drawer and discovered this. It's not really communicated in game, but it represents what amounts to a full blown trade system. Give resources the character wants, and you can take what you need from their owned shelter. I haven't tested taking an item that would put the player into negative trust. But if they have anything you need, you can help yourself and wear the cost. 

Which brings me to my line of thinking for future story mode updates. Hinterland have experimented with regions that have fewer structures, because this creates unique challenges. The more man-made structures you have, the more high quality loot you can expect. But what if the majority of the structures (and their contents) were already claimed by NPCs who weren't just abandoning Great Bear? Then the player might find themselves constrained in terms of resource availability, despite being on a map that has several suitable shelters. If the majority of resources were "claimed" as it were, you would have to scavenge and trade to get what you needed. 

In addition, it would allow for more complex narrative threads if NPCs had conflicting goals.

[Fuarian]

In sandbox mode this would be great. Here are some ideas;

General; NPC's should move around the regions they are bound to from time to time. The longer in the apocalypse you go the more of a chance other NPC's will die off. 

Mystery Lake, Forlorn Muskeg and Broken Railroad would be populated with 2 types of NPC's (mainly). Generic Survivors and Hunter/Trappers. Generic Survivors are more interested in food, clothing and firewood. They will accept almost any form of help. Hunter/Trapper's will be more trady, they like animal hides, guts and hunting equipment. They are more sustainable so they aren't interested in stuff that'll help them survive more than normal since they do it on a day to day basis.

ML Trader; The Methuselah character from Wintermute should show up at the Dam from time to time. Trading generic supplies. 

Bandit; There's a chance you'll be able to run into an enemy NPC along your travels in ML. He won't hesitate to shoot you and take your precious supplies. You can do the same back however. More likely around FM and BR (dunno how they'll get this into the game...)

Coastal Highway; the types of NPC's here are Generic Survivors and Traders. Generic Survivors reside around the Coastal Townsite but are widespread around the region. Mainly in the CT during lower wolf activity. They can be found occasionally around any part of the Highway or upper mountain area. Less likely out on the ice, fishing huts or islands. The Trader will come around much later into the apocalypse. He will be in a few places; the Fishing Camp (at a fire), The Cottages (if no wolf is around, in a house with a fire in the chimney), Logging Sort (in the barricaded house) The Trader here will accept ammunition and fish more than other traders. 

Crumbling Highway; chance of meeting a static NPC in need of help in the basement of the Harris Homestead.

Desolation Point; NPC's here are much more rare. You'll find Generic Survivor and Bandits here. Generic Survivors can be found along the road in specific places (cars, bridge, Hibernia, at a fire). Or at the Church. You can occasionally find a Generic Survivor at the lighthouse. Bandits are found around Hibernia and the Riken. Sometimes in the mines where they can attack you in the darkness. They are rare however. NPC's in this region are much more rare and are much more likely to die quickly. 

Pleasant Valley; NPC's here are Generic Survivors, Bandits and a Trader. Generic Survivors are found around the Rural Townsite, Point of Disagreement, Picnic Area and along the roads by fires. 

Generic Survivors; accepts any type of food, clothing and firewood. Occasionally found in bariccaded homes in the Townsite.

Bandit; Found around the Farmstead, Barn and Radio Control Hut. They are likely to shoot you but will more likely have a bow and arrow. Sometimes they will live in the farmstead and barricade it off. Occasionally will pass through the Rural Townsite to loot.

Trader; found around Rural Townsite, Mine entrance, Barnhouse. He will trade for clothing and firewood more than anything.

Timberwolf Mountain; NPC's here are Plane Crash Survivors and the Mountaineer. There are not many survivors in this region.

PCS; desperate for anything. Not a lot of them. Mountaineer; found in the Mountaineer's Hut, Caves or the Summit. Willing to share food and other supplies for hides and guts. 

Carter River; Bandits. These bandits are more desperate than the rest. There's only one bandit here. Will shoot on sight. Rare.

That's all I got.

[LucidFugue]

I don't know how bandits would work. The idea is to minimise the amount of effort required to implement more dynamic NPC interactions. The way you describe bandits it sounds like you'd meet them out in the open. What I'm talking about is taking what has already been implemented for story mode and leveraging that. So, finding places in each of the interiors where you can place an NPC. Like sitting on indestructible furniture or leaning against a wall. You can just interact with them if they are present, and they won't interfere with an interior you have been calling home if they happen to visit. 

Maybe have 5-10 NPCs in a given sandbox. They might start scattered across the regions, but they will simulate travelling by disappearing from their starting interior and appearing in the next valid interior towards some destination. They would move through the regions rather than being confined to just one. Importantly this means regions that lack interiors (TWM and FM) won't have NPCs unless you count caves as potential meeting points. 

I like the idea of different NPC backstory and motivations. Trapper types who trade cured skins, and perhaps reduce the local wildlife population (to simulate their hunting). Generic survivors who have random looted goods as well as varying desires. Traders who have more man-made goods brought in from outside. 

Maybe you could have specific events where you come across them and they desperately need food or medical supplies. If you provide them you get a huge trust boost, but if you leave them they will die out of the sandbox. 

Barricading interiors so the player can't enter seems harsh. I think it would be enough to have interior loot drastically reduced if an NPC had been there before you. 

 

[Mroz4k]

I wouldnt go that far with speculations what NPCs will be like, thought as suggestions these are not that bad. However, I doubt there will be NPCs who would travel around the "shelters", I would more likely expect that the game will have some "generated" during the gameplay, some might be hostile, some might not be.

As far as meeting people in the open, I think I heard somewhere that there will be a chance to meet traders in the open, traveling, or possibly in distress and needing help. I would also assume that means you can come across some hostile people - I just hope their aim is not going to be too good because randomly encountered hostile NPCs who are crackshots in a game where you lose everything by dying would not be a fun addition.

But as far as "trust mention" goes - I think you misunderstood what "trust" means. I havent tested it, but I believe that taking more and more items will multiply in trust lost - I dont think its a "barter" system at all. I believe it is meant as in "there is a new survivor around, I dont trust them, but now they are giving me shit for free, maybe they are not that bad... but wait, where did my knife go... I am sure it was somewhere in here... maybe HE took it, I have to be careful, maybe he is a thief afterall..."
I dont think it is meant as a trading system. I believe it is just a measurement of how much you are trusted - taking a single thing might not be bad enough thing, but gradually stealing more is something I would expect the NPC wouldnt like, more and more. I would personally be careful what you take.

[Hesha]

I dunno. I don't think this would work in survival mode. In Story mode it makes sense that you cannot kill the NPC, because they each have valuable advice for you and you cannot find Astrid without their direction. (Well, I guess you could kill them after the final cutscene...)

In survival mode... it would be exactly 2 sec before Steam and this forum get flooded with requests to enable killing the NPC and taking their loot.

[LucidFugue]

On 06/09/2017 at 4:29 PM, Mroz4k said:

But as far as "trust mention" goes - I think you misunderstood what "trust" means. I havent tested it, but I believe that taking more and more items will multiply in trust lost - I dont think its a "barter" system at all. I believe it is meant as in "there is a new survivor around, I dont trust them, but now they are giving me shit for free, maybe they are not that bad... but wait, where did my knife go... I am sure it was somewhere in here... maybe HE took it, I have to be careful, maybe he is a thief afterall..."
I dont think it is meant as a trading system. I believe it is just a measurement of how much you are trusted - taking a single thing might not be bad enough thing, but gradually stealing more is something I would expect the NPC wouldnt like, more and more. I would personally be careful what you take.

It would be a shame if there was an escalating cost. I would have gone through the entire game not taking anything (they are highlighted in red which suggests non intractable) but for an accidental click. Then I started experimenting and realised this was a possibility. 

From a game play perspective, what is the point of trust if there is no way to lower it? They are "points" at the most rudimentary level. Score enough points and earn a reward. But once you have enough points and have earned all desired rewards, they serve no purpose. Nothing will entice you to continue interacting with that survivor and giving them anything. For the most part, that's how it is played. 

However, if you think about the relationship building aspect, trust isn't just about giving free stuff to someone and unlocking a reward. It's being there for them and knowing they will be there for you. 

So it makes sense that a fellow survivor will value certain goods higher (better trust bonus for delivering on the list of desired items) and that they will be okay with you taking items you need in return (modest trust loss for taking owned items). If you are more trouble than you are worth, then they will intervene and deny you what you want. But if you're coming by and are starving, it's not going to destroy the friendship to take food. Otherwise how does the player ever rely on an NPC  for anything other than story progression? They should be more than static quest givers. 

In my head, there's no reason grey mother wouldn't be okay trading some spare clothing for all that food and firewood. I'll do some more testing next time I play through but I didn't notice Jeremiah getting annoyed with me for taking items from the cabin. It's just that it hasn't really been a big need because the early episodes are fairly easy to get through. 

[JAFO]

Only if there's an option to have NO NPCs in Survival mode as well...

I like being the only person around.

[Prestermatt]

1 hour ago, JAFO said:

Only if there's an option to have NO NPCs in Survival mode as well...

I like being the only person around.

This.

[Mroz4k]

3 hours ago, JAFO said:

Only if there's an option to have NO NPCs in Survival mode as well...

I like being the only person around.

I can see where you are coming from. I do hope for that option as well - NPCs will fundamentaly change the game, I would guess.

While it can be fun to play with them, ultimatedly most challenges and just general peace in mind would come for modes without them. This is why I want to have a customizable difficulty.