How exactly does Frostbite work?

[Ruruwawa]

I'd assumed that Frostbite was like Hypothermia.  That you had to reach 100% risk to get the effect.  But nope. my feet were permanently damaged at 32% risk.  Btw, I never had a red cross either in the main screen or the radial menu (unlike Blood Loss, for example).

UPDATE: Turns out that both feet were in danger of Frostbite.  One got it, the other (the 32% one) didn't, because having finally been warned of the risk I built a fire.

Or maybe I was getting a second case of frostbite on my left foot?  Hard to tell from the UI.

No red cross warning was a huge deal to me because it never occurred to me that I was at risk of anything.  It was a warm, clear day and I was out for several hours, but my Feels Like temperature never dipped below freezing.

And that's my question.  Do I have to watch the Air Temp to predict risk of frostbite, rather than the Feels Like temp?  As you can see above, my boots and socks somehow froze despite the warm clear weather (I was at 100% all day long).  I honestly don't understand why I got frostbite.

[mystifeid]

Frostbite seems to be caused by not covering a body part with clothing or having that clothing freeze (or maybe even just become wet) - in your case, your boots and socks. Moving around on weak ice might be what caused the boots and socks to become wet and since you didn't dry them, they froze.

[cekivi]

1 hour ago, mystifeid said:

Frostbite seems to be caused by not covering a body part with clothing or having that clothing freeze (or maybe even just become wet) - in your case, your boots and socks. Moving around on weak ice might be what caused the boots and socks to become wet and since you didn't dry them, they froze.

Exactly this reason. Weak ice has a chance (no idea what the raw percentage is) to soak your feet. Once wet it's only a matter of time until they freeze and you have a frostbite risk. Staying above "feels like 0C" will slowly thaw your boots and eventually eliminate the frostbite. You can speed it up by lighting a fire and placing your wet/frozen clothing beside it.

The only warning you do get is red text at the bottom of your screen saying "at risk of frostbite" just like you get when you first start getting hypothermia. I agree though that there should be a cross symbol in the UI to remind you in case you miss the message.

[TWM]

30 minutes ago, cekivi said:

I agree though that there should be a cross symbol in the UI to remind you in case you miss the message.

Well, we've been here before when the developers introduced the Hypothermia condition. That would frequently make a red cross pop up, and the complaint then was that it made the entire warning system moot.

I'd be more in favour of an audio cue with several degrees of intensity. Like the player saying that it feels like his toes are feeling numb, his toes are freezing off, etc. That sort of thing. If they make it consistent, after a while the player will start recognizing the cues, like: shit, I have to check for frostbite. Yikes it's already at 15%!

[Ruruwawa]

Thin ice?  I did step on a patch but didn't fall through.  I've done that a few other times but my boots never got wet before.  Good to know! 

Any idea about the 2 frostbites on one foot?  Are these my toes dying one at a time, for a 10 condition loss per toe?  Meaning the max frostbite penalty for two feet is 100?

10 hours ago, cekivi said:

The only warning you do get is red text at the bottom of your screen saying "at risk of frostbite" just like you get when you first start getting hypothermia. I agree though that there should be a cross symbol in the UI to remind you in case you miss the message.

Hypothermia is a consequence of freezing, so we already have an indirect on-screen warning.  Obviously I missed the first "at risk of frostbite" message that flashes briefly on the screen.  I did notice second one and lost my foot before I could get a fire started.

Frostbite is easily the harshest non-lethal affliction.   I'd cheerfully trade the red cross warning for a sprain for a red cross warning for Frostbite risk, which requires immediate attention.

Others may not feel this way, but for my playstyle (several hundred day voyageur games) contracting frostbite means a reroll.   I can't see investing another precious gaming hour into a permanently gimped sandbox.  That's why I really want to understand frostbite as completely as possible.   I'll put the work into avoiding it if I know how it happens so I don't lose another sandbox to it in the future.

[togg]

10 hours ago, TWM said:

Well, we've been here before when the developers introduced the Hypothermia condition. That would frequently make a red cross pop up, and the complaint then was that it made the entire warning system moot.

I'd be more in favour of an audio cue with several degrees of intensity. Like the player saying that it feels like his toes are feeling numb, his toes are freezing off, etc. That sort of thing. If they make it consistent, after a while the player will start recognizing the cues, like: shit, I have to check for frostbite. Yikes it's already at 15%!

Could be an idea... It should be clear anyway, this is one of the worst afflictions in the game at the moment. In real life how would you feel frostbite coming? Maybe the indirect commentaries that you proposed would be the best.

[TWM]

Quote

In real life how would you feel frostbite coming?

I don't know if people do feel it coming. From what I gather, people only start noticing something's wrong when they get out of the cold.

This TV-report speaks of a couple of stages, by which you could recognize frostbite, mostly visually:

1) skin becomes pale white and loses sensation;

2) lesions, blistering of the skin,

3) darker discolouration, pain.

Given the cap on condition, we may assume what the game means by frostbite is stage three, up to the point where the afflicted body part needs amputation.

I don't know if you would feel the pain though.

Here's the testimony of a guy from Indiana who got stuck in the snow when his vehicle gave up on him. The tops op his fingers had to be amputated afterward.

Quote

It didn't hurt, there just was no feeling. Just numb.

 

[SteelFire]

In real life you can get frostbite simply due to temperature, even on dry, covered skin. The difference between real life and the game is that TLD requires the wet clothing first.

A foot slipping through the ice and getting dunked, ending up with soaked boots and socks is something that one is going to tend to notice... yet we have no indication of this event in the game. So, yeah, I'd be happy with an audible cue when you cross weak ice successfully but do get hit with the dice roll to get your foot/feet wet.

 

As to being able to get multiple frostbite hits on a single body part during the same incident... Yup. It will keep stacking until you remove the frozen items or unfreeze them. Ended up getting hit with a 2x frostbite on the same foot due to the exact same thing as the OP. In my case, I slept completely unaware that my gear was frozen and woke up with 2x frostbite. So, now I'm at 80% max condition. that might be huge if it wasn't a voyageur sandbox, but it hasn't been difficult for me to deal with.

My first inclination is to say that a 10% hit per instance is kind of extreme, especially since it can easily stack up if you're unaware of having gear soaked. That said, I'll take it, rather than having a mechanic where the body part was actually affected; i.e. losing some mobility with feet/legs or losing some hand use/dexterity.

[cekivi]

1 hour ago, SteelFire said:

My first inclination is to say that a 10% hit per instance is kind of extreme, especially since it can easily stack up if you're unaware of having gear soaked. That said, I'll take it, rather than having a mechanic where the body part was actually affected; i.e. losing some mobility with feet/legs or losing some hand use/dexterity.

Crafting penalties for frostbitten hands are planned for the future. So, it may be coming

[cekivi]

17 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

Thin ice?  I did step on a patch but didn't fall through.  I've done that a few other times but my boots never got wet before.  Good to know! 

Any time you hear the cracking sound of the ice there's a chance that your feet might get wet. The first time this happened to me I didn't realize the risk until after I got the "at risk of frostbite" warning. Now I just check every time by default. Seems to happen to me maybe one in every four attempts to cross weak ice?

[cekivi]

7 hours ago, TWM said:

I don't know if people do feel it coming. From what I gather, people only start noticing something's wrong when they get out of the cold.

In my experience (I've frostbit my face a few times) you notice something is wrong but you don't really feel pain. It's just numb and tingles. The pain starts when you warm up. So, it's more of the sense of foreboding than anything else...

You know you're in trouble but until you warm up you don't really know how much.

 

[MueckE]

20 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

Any idea about the 2 frostbites on one foot?  Are these my toes dying one at a time, for a 10 condition loss per toe?  Meaning the max frostbite penalty for two feet is 100?

basicly yes. After you've lost 10% condition, the counter just restets to 0% risk and starts all over for the same bodypart. So if you still didn't cover up/warm up this part, you can lose 10% again and again for the same bodypart.