Travel to Survive

[vancopower]

Here is a thought:

What if every Area had something special, for your long term survival like Desolation point. For example you need to go to Desolation point to forge arrowheads, but there is no coal or scrap metal you only could find coal in the mines and to do that you have to have a tool like a pick axe or something which you can find or make in another area like abandoned tool factory where you can also make tool boxes which will be required to repair every tool not just the hammer, and in order to make them you need to create metal bolts and screws in the forge, and electricity which will require fuel which you can make in another area like old Chemical plant and convert bear fat in to biodiesel, but first you should travel in yet another area which will be full of bears like some sort of bear resort. So my point is traveling should be required to sum up just to be more Clear:

You begin the game as now with little resources, you spend time hunting crafting clothes using every tool you could find and toolboxes which will be valuable since now they are required to fix any tool, and when you are ready and your tools are almost broken you begin the pilgrimage, going to tool factory to get the pick axe then mining some coal, then forging some arrows, bolts and improvised tools just to keep you going then you hunt some bears, making fuel and finally returning to tools factory to make more real tools and toolboxes. If anyone has some better idea I am all ears please post don't be shy

P.S. Also there should be old ordinance factory where you can make rifle bullets if you have the correct ingredients like gunpowder which you can make in the chem. plant

[Killjoy]

No...just no on the bullets. No offense but they should be a rare and finite resource. This game is in my opinion the devolution of modern life into primitive living.

For me personally the addition of the forge to Desolation Point as the only way to craft arrowheads was not the best idea ever. Currently I start in DP round up all the scrap metal & coal I can ASAP forge as many arrowheads as I can clear the zone and move on never to return. This is due entirely to the gigantic hassle it is to get there and use the forge. If this mechanic was repeated for other things I could see myself quitting the game.

I do like the notion that each area has some kind of unique resource but that resource should not be tied to survival or force you into making trips just to obtain it.

As for the toolbox... I don't know... maybe change it to a maintenance kit and have it be required to repair the rifle. Does not seem like it should be a requirement to maintain simpler items like the hammer or axe.

[vancopower]

Ok, I was not trying to suggest what should be craft-able and what not. My point is exactly that the resources should be even more rare or non existent on some areas so that you have to travel, to an area that has lots of it. Limited by your weight off course you should prioritize which area should you visit first. to keep your tools fixed or maybe loot some stores or maybe hunt or fish, and so on... if we have everything in one area then why bother to travel and have adventure you can survive endlessly in one area which is way boring, especially on stalker levels where you are surrounded by wolves and you just have to stay at home waiting and stockpiling that is a very boring experience right there waiting for wolves to go away just eating, drinking relax no that is not survival my friends survival is counting every minute deciding your next move ahead of time, I vote for less "surviving" in a house and more exploring and getting rewards.

P.S. I also LOVE Desolation Point I think it is the best update yet, I re-installed the game when it came up made it much more interesting for me the braking down of metal object, moving thing around, the forge the coal everything is awesome, I started playing it a lot again I wish there will be more content like this soon special areas not just for crafting, but hunting fishing where fish are plentiful (larger fish) and some re-spawnable loot areas maybe like junkyard which spawns scrap metal or fuel cans after a blizzard but it is hard to travel to and get back. Should feel like adventure in oppose to just passing time in a house, cause this is a game after all not just survival sim. HEAR ME DEVS. MORE AVDENTURE LESS HOUSEWIFE-PLAY

[LucidFugue]

I always thought having tools spawn in different zones would be a great thing, like being guaranteed to only find a knife or hatchet in one zone, forcing travel. But after desolation point I can see how that becomes artificial very quickly. I agree with Killjoy that making DP the only way to make arrowheads has taken something away, because it now funnels everybody to DP for that purpose, rather than maintaining an organic experience. Some people like to stay in Mystery Lake for weeks before even touching other zones. I personally try to duck through every zone within the first 2 weeks to get premium clothes and tools, leaving most of it untouched so I'm not spoiling resources, but so I know what is generally available at each location.

I'd prefer it if forges and even things like fireplaces and crafting benches were randomised in some buildings, so you were less sure of where the "best" safe houses were, and where you needed to go for some crafting goals, but that's too big a design change at this stage I suspect, and possibly against the design philosophy.

[vancopower]

I agree with Killjoy that making DP the only way to make arrowheads has taken something away, because it now funnels everybody to DP for that purpose, rather than maintaining an organic experience.

Yea I see your point, but still they have added broken arrows and arrowhead all around which you can re-craft so short term survival is not in question here and by short term I'm thinking of 20-30 days, cause you can live of the land with the tools on every map in that time frame. I am more focused here on long really loooong survival here. Because after 20-30 days when you stockpiled tons of stuff it is really no fun anymore, there is nothing left to do but eat, sleep and pass time which is fine for a survival sim. but it is not for survival game the fun is well gone at that point. Don't get me wrong I hate running from point A to B all the time that's why I hate On-line RPGS that make you do pointless quests over and over, but this game could use a little more adventuring wouldn't you all agree on that?

[cekivi]

-1

I personally would enjoy more mechanics to encourage adventuring/exploring. Also, having "rare" resources on each map to give an added bonus for being there would also make the game feel more organic and alive. However, forcing a player to go to many different areas would definitely lessen the gaming experience.

Pleasant Valley is an excellent example of this in action. It has a glut of resources: game. But it is deficient in shelters and places to loot. The important thing though is it still has some shelters and supplies. If Pleasant Valley was just game or you had to leave to find any supplies is would detract from the game as a whole.

In short, having maps be unique with their own challenges and rewards can only help the game but there should never be mechanics that punish players for avoiding certain maps.

[SteveP]

I think there should be "special" items on each map but more for comfort than for necessity. For example, the forge let's one craft things like the improvised knife, useful when you can't find it on DP. I don't want to see the game more linear.

Comfort items OTOH would be a nice addition. Candles, that sort of thing. Nice clothes. Decorations.

Travel is important in the game; the more you can travel, the better off you will fare in general. Scarcity of game might factor into that too.

[vancopower]

Pleasant Valley is an excellent example of this in action. It has a glut of resources: game. But it is deficient in shelters and places to loot. The important thing though is it still has some shelters and supplies. If Pleasant Valley was just game or you had to leave to find any supplies is would detract from the game as a whole.

Pleasant Valley is awesome. Ton's of space to avoid wolves easy loot and yes it is excellent example that not all shelters have to be top camps: Cooking stoves and beds. you have to sleep in one place, then go to another start fire boil some water. I always start my char. in Pleasant Valley. The only nerving thing is that bad weather but when you start with little food and water it is actually fun, do I risk the cold to get more food or do I stay collect firewood. I urge everyone to try this path: Start in Pleasant Valley try to work your way back to Mystical Lake to tapper's. Craft there live of the land and once you have crafted all the clothing get back to Pleasant Valley, and Coastal Highway to explore. You can spice it up even more to play this in Stalker mode, in which case you will need lots of flares

To sum up Pleasant Valley is designed to be with bad weather for a reason the player is supposed to build up some resources especially heavy clothing before exploring Pleasant Valley. Yes it is big and not safe for living or camping but the loot is awesome, and yes the game will be bad if it was just Pleasant Valley or maybe not, because if it was like that the devs. would removed the bad weather and than it is fine.

P.S. Adventure is always fun, camping is not here is an example I was camping in coastal highway for 20 days Fishing, hunting collecting wood and I relaxed doing the same things over and over didn't even watched my condition which had to be lower than 10%. I peeked from the fishing hut to see if there ware wolves around and it seemed that it was safe but out of no ware a wolf jumped me it must have been stuck in the wall or something and surprise surprise it killed me. Now how is that fun ? Camping is bad it relaxes you, makes you unfocused you should only camp when you are sick or injured, and it is unreal would you in real life camp and hoard every resource like wood, metal or would just get the food and try to explore find your way out ? and if there is no way out then consider building up more permanent shelter.

[I like hiking]

unreal would you in real life camp and hoard every resource like wood, metal or would just get the food and try to explore find your way out ? and if there is no way out then consider building up more permanent shelter.

I'm new at this game but my plan is to just keep walking south until I get to California or Mexico. It's probably still warm there

[FrozenLiquidity]

Hey vancopower,

While I am definitely in agreement on the principle (this is a survival game, we should have to survive - not homestead), I don't really agree upon the mechanics you've presented. I've had some ideas of my own on the issue though, and have explained them in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=9415

In short, I agree with traveling to survive, but believe that this shouldn't be for specialty items like tools and the like, but rather should be a part of the survival experience when trying to find the necessities like food, shelter, water. Since the last two are fairly easy to come by, food can really be the driving mechanic for the "travel to survive" gameplay and make sense in that the bulk of ones' food will come from wildlife in a longer game, and that wildlife will become scarce when overhunted and will relocate to an area that is not threatened. Players would have to trek further away to hunt for food, or would need to pack up and relocate closer to the source as these migrations took place.

Anyway, don't mean to ninja your thread, but I agree on the principle of traveling to survive, but I think it should be implemented with a different mechanic.

[vancopower]

Hey vancopower,

While I am definitely in agreement on the principle (this is a survival game, we should have to survive - not homestead), I don't really agree upon the mechanics you've presented. I've had some ideas of my own ...

Well it seems that you've gone more in depth with this one than me but sure, your Idea sound plausible although I like the tools mechanic in this game which I think it is original on contrary to other people who hated the arrowhead forging mech. I loved it and now with TM forging becomes even more important love that too, I would say this why not have both:

TM could be the go to area when the wildlife will gets scarce in other areas since well it's large and it is a Mountain region seems reasonable for the wildlife to retreat there.

DP well it is fine as it is Toll Forging area maybe, iron ore smelting in the future don't want to go in to depth about this one, again.

New Region - The story trailer shows city locations maybe a city location where trader NPC could be found for trading Pelts and Meat for bullets, medicine, clothes , items that can't be crafted.

The other areas - mix of these three example: mystery lake NPC fish trader likes pelts and crafted clothes. Doesn't like food.

Yea that will be nice, as you posted first priority should be food, water with diminishing properties so you can go to other areas. However, after a while you feel that you need better tools so you go to city area to trade some of your precious food and clothes for better tools and then you go back and hunt some more, ect ect. have some nasty encounters in between like wolf attack in areas closer to TM and more of NPC raiders as you get close to a city area, where wildlife is scarce and even non existent there. what do you think of this new concept ?

[FrozenLiquidity]

Personally, I think it's rather silly that one would have to go to a certain place to forge arrowheads when natives have been making them from stone since ancient history. Though if they want to keep their currently implemented forging mechanic then I see no harm in expanding the options one has available to work with. I'm not sure about a city map or a trader, raiders, etc. - this may be outside the scope of what the devs have in mind for the game. If this is something they feel is appropriate and they have the resources for, then they may add it. Otherwise mods can pick up where the game leaves off.

For me, this game was spun as a wilderness survival simulator and it's struggling at that to some degree, so I'd prefer them focusing on refining and tweaking the elements that are currently in place before adding new ones, as much as I'd like to see them.

[vancopower]

For me, this game was spun as a wilderness survival simulator and it's struggling at that to some degree, so I'd prefer them focusing on refining and tweaking the elements that are currently in place before adding new ones, as much as I'd like to see them.

I know what you mean, it was strange for me too when I heard first that they would add NPC's in the game but now when I look at the story trailer although it is nothing finite, I think hmm maybe a little human interaction would not be such a bad idea they can make it optional for the sandbox maybe put a few char here and there in some regions and if you want just to survive as it is now just don't go there and survive in the un-populated regions Also they are recruiting voice actors, what is the point for having a great voice actor if all there is to act is mono drama? Just a guy talking to himself I need to do this and that it a bit silly don't you think? anyone could record that you don't need pro to do that. But I believe that in the final version there will be more humans some raiders some traders, and yes maybe a city area

[LucidFugue]

what is the point for having a great voice actor if all there is to act is mono drama? Just a guy talking to himself I need to do this and that it a bit silly don't you think? anyone could record that you don't need pro to do that.

Don't underestimate the effect a good voice actor can have. It's a bit like writing - even a basic story can be really compelling with a good writer.

[FrozenLiquidity]

what is the point for having a great voice actor if all there is to act is mono drama? Just a guy talking to himself I need to do this and that it a bit silly don't you think? anyone could record that you don't need pro to do that.

Don't underestimate the effect a good voice actor can have. It's a bit like writing - even a basic story can be really compelling with a good writer.

Err, your quote is broken. I never said those words but the way you framed it sure makes it look like I did...

[KD7BCH]

No...just no on the bullets. No offense but they should be a rare and finite resource. This game is in my opinion the devolution of modern life into primitive living.

For me personally the addition of the forge to Desolation Point as the only way to craft arrowheads was not the best idea ever. Currently I start in DP round up all the scrap metal & coal I can ASAP forge as many arrowheads as I can clear the zone and move on never to return. This is due entirely to the gigantic hassle it is to get there and use the forge. If this mechanic was repeated for other things I could see myself quitting the game.

I do like the notion that each area has some kind of unique resource but that resource should not be tied to survival or force you into making trips just to obtain it.

As for the toolbox... I don't know... maybe change it to a maintenance kit and have it be required to repair the rifle. Does not seem like it should be a requirement to maintain simpler items like the hammer or axe.

I agree with you and I think it would be wiser if you could make arrow tips with scrap metal and the tools that are not as durable as those you could forge. I also like to make tons of fish hooks with the scrap metal at DP. I like to bring maybe a few dozen out because they are so light and I'll never have to use scrap metal again to make them.

You only need a dozen or so arrow tips because they can be reused. You can only shoot once or twice on each target with the bow before it runs off. I find I can find the arrow more than 80% of the time meaning with a dozen arrows I'll have hundreds of shots before I run down to just a few arrows left.

One trip there is all I ever usually make too. Though the map isn't terrible its just there isn't too much to do there besides forge. I would bet you the next map the work on will have a forge too, reducing its role as a sole utility map even further.

[vancopower]

Err, your quote is broken. I never said those words but the way you framed it sure makes it look like I did...

Other people quote or posts together see, I told you our combined ideas will work it's a sign Now the Dev. have no choice but to combine our ideas and put them in to the next update A wildlife mechanics and a NPC trading mechanics together working in harmony "both Soul Reavers working as one" - Legacy of kain )))

[LucidFugue]

Err, your quote is broken. I never said those words but the way you framed it sure makes it look like I did...

Oh, sorry! I meant to quote vancopower. I'm used to copy/pasting the quote and quoting the author directly, but I must have screwed up cutting away the irrelevant bits of his post and left the quote tags from the beginning of his post.