Taking off clothes

[exeexe]

Taking off clothes needs a penalty since people abuse this function to keep the clothes lasting longer. Like walking around naked in a -30C blizzard etc

Here is my idea.

• In freezing condition, clothes would freeze and needs to be warmed up before you can take it on.
  
• In temperatures above freezing and say between 0-10C the clothes would be cold and u would begin to freeze shortly after you commence wearing it. After a longer time the clothes would be heated up again from an internal body system consisting of a fancy heat to clothes algorithm and the clothes will no longer add freeze to you.
  
• If you are inside with a fire burning and you take on clothes there should be no penalty.

[AmericanSteel]

I think players standing around "exposed" should suffer the effects of frostbite. You can suffer frostbite with skin touching exposed ice in under 10 seconds.

Let me throw down a tale from 1996. I am in Pinion Canyon, CO and we are in a white out. Convoy comes in but we are told the last truck never made it. It is between -30 and -60 Deg wind chill outside and the Brigade Commander cannot order anyone to out. Half of the MPs teams, that is three trucks, went out. For the sake of all things military I was in 4th ID, 3 BCT "The Fighting Cheifs", HQ Co, MP Platoon "The Brigade Stops Here". OK we go for like 3 hours looking for this lost truck. I was in BDUs with thermal underwear, leg boots (my feet were freezing) and a gortex jacket. We get a call that the truck did not check in, it just pulled up and they off-load the squad directly into a GP Medium Tent without telling anyone. Needless to say we were all pretty ticked. To change subject I went out after this deployment, bought a set of Materhorn boots (like $150 boots on a Privates pay) and have them to this very day. Any hoo...

So we roll back to the TOC (Tactile Operations Center) and start to get out of the hummer. Now, my .50 cal has been up there flying in the wind for like 6 hours. It is a block of ice. However, I am not going to leave my weapon hanging out. So I break the ice off the hood, pop the hatch and begin taking the weapon down. Some knuckle head radio operator comes out of the one of the tents with hot coffee and notices I am freezing my tail off trying to break this .50 off my truck. I am working on just getting the collar off (that is basically a metal cylinder that attaches the weapon mount to the truck) and I was going to just haul the .50 cal popcicle into our tent. The guy climbs on top of the truck and starts to help. I tell him to get his Comm hands off my weapon and go back inside before he makes a fool of himself. He laughs it off and says he cant get a good grip with his gloves on. So he takes off his gloves. I yell at him to stop and his sweaty hands hit the collar. They freeze to it like a kid sticking their tongue on a flag pole before Christmas break. He pulls and his hands are stuck. I slap him upside the kevlar and tell him to wait. We can get the some warm water to break the ice and free his hands. I jump down off the truck and yell into the Op Center I need a Merrimack of coffee asap and a medic, like yesterday. I turn around and see he has planted his knee on the collar. Before I can say "Dont..." he pulls and breaks his hands free, leaving about three layers of skin stuck to the collar. He looks at his hands, makes and eek sound and falls off the side of the truck. I break his fall as best I can and look at his hands, seeing ragged strips of flesh, muscle and bone. His hands look like frozen meat from the meat department at you local grocery store. No blood was flowing. Just icy meat and bone.

He was given a medical discharge about a six months later. They had to graft skin from his butt onto his hands. You know the ribbing he got was bad. It was worse than bad. He lost feeling in the palms and insides of most of his fingers. Given an 80% medical discharge and see ya.

I say this because walking around with your parts swaying in the breeze is a sure fire was of getting frostbite and loosing them. An environment like this does not suffer fools lightly. Anyone who strips down to their skivvies should be beaten by the cold like a thief being caned in China. It should be brutal and unforgiving.

Just my .02.

[Jeremy JPOW Powell]

Well... Unless your this guy.

[bBvideo 560,340:kex67emi]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc4pqs_VqTo[/bBvideo]

Jeremy

[EternityTide]

I think players standing around "exposed" should suffer the effects of frostbite. You can suffer frostbite with skin touching exposed ice in under 10 seconds.

Let me throw down a tale from 1996. I am in Pinion Canyon, CO and we are in a white out. Convoy comes in but we are told the last truck never made it. It is between -30 and -60 Deg wind chill outside and the Brigade Commander cannot order anyone to out. Half of the MPs teams, that is three trucks, went out. For the sake of all things military I was in 4th ID, 3 BCT "The Fighting Cheifs", HQ Co, MP Platoon "The Brigade Stops Here". OK we go for like 3 hours looking for this lost truck. I was in BDUs with thermal underwear, leg boots (my feet were freezing) and a gortex jacket. We get a call that the truck did not check in, it just pulled up and they off-load the squad directly into a GP Medium Tent without telling anyone. Needless to say we were all pretty ticked. To change subject I went out after this deployment, bought a set of Materhorn boots (like $150 boots on a Privates pay) and have them to this very day. Any hoo...

So we roll back to the TOC (Tactile Operations Center) and start to get out of the hummer. Now, my .50 cal has been up there flying in the wind for like 6 hours. It is a block of ice. However, I am not going to leave my weapon hanging out. So I break the ice off the hood, pop the hatch and begin taking the weapon down. Some knuckle head radio operator comes out of the one of the tents with hot coffee and notices I am freezing my tail off trying to break this .50 off my truck. I am working on just getting the collar off (that is basically a metal cylinder that attaches the weapon mount to the truck) and I was going to just haul the .50 cal popcicle into our tent. The guy climbs on top of the truck and starts to help. I tell him to get his Comm hands off my weapon and go back inside before he makes a fool of himself. He laughs it off and says he cant get a good grip with his gloves on. So he takes off his gloves. I yell at him to stop and his sweaty hands hit the collar. They freeze to it like a kid sticking their tongue on a flag pole before Christmas break. He pulls and his hands are stuck. I slap him upside the kevlar and tell him to wait. We can get the some warm water to break the ice and free his hands. I jump down off the truck and yell into the Op Center I need a Merrimack of coffee asap and a medic, like yesterday. I turn around and see he has planted his knee on the collar. Before I can say "Dont..." he pulls and breaks his hands free, leaving about three layers of skin stuck to the collar. He looks at his hands, makes and eek sound and falls off the side of the truck. I break his fall as best I can and look at his hands, seeing ragged strips of flesh, muscle and bone. His hands look like frozen meat from the meat department at you local grocery store. No blood was flowing. Just icy meat and bone.

He was given a medical discharge about a six months later. They had to graft skin from his butt onto his hands. You know the ribbing he got was bad. It was worse than bad. He lost feeling in the palms and insides of most of his fingers. Given an 80% medical discharge and see ya.

I say this because walking around with your parts swaying in the breeze is a sure fire was of getting frostbite and loosing them. An environment like this does not suffer fools lightly. Anyone who strips down to their skivvies should be beaten by the cold like a thief being caned in China. It should be brutal and unforgiving.

Just my .02.

I pictured you as a bearded fellow with an eyepatch who fights mountain lions and bears before breakfast.

Now I picture you as the same man, bashing the brains out of grizzlies with a frozen .50.

[AmericanSteel]

Here is a pic from Venom Strike 95. Which took place in New Brunswick (yes Canada) in Sept of 95. This was the operation where we (the American Army/Air Force) were training with the Canadian Army/Air Force for joint operations that were going to happen in Bosnia in 1996. This was my first deployment. I was green as hell

Top Left to Right: Moore, Barth, Flippin, Zachary (Me), Forrest

Bottom Left to Right: Brodean, Bogdanski, Rodriguez

Moore, Rodriguez and I are humping M60s. Flipping and Bogdanski are weilding M16A2 w/ M203 grenade launcher. Everyone else is sporting an M16A2. MPs one and all.

[EternityTide]

I'm impressed. You were already enrolled and operating before I was even born.

[exeexe]

Nice story

MP = military police?

[bethany]

Thanks for sharing that photo! Very cool. I was only 10, and not nearly as cool.

[AmericanSteel]

Nice story

MP = military police?

Yes. In the US Army, an MP squad (9 troops) has more firepower than an infantry platoon (23 to 30 troops). International peacekeepers that carry the big stick!

[exeexe]

Oh i thought MPs were just roaming in the background and not to be at the frontline to make sure soldiers wouldnt commit war crimes and that orders were followed.

But if MPs has a lot of firepower then that wouldnt make sense.

[AmericanSteel]

Oh i thought MPs were just roaming in the background and not to be at the frontline to make sure soldiers wouldnt commit war crimes and that orders were followed.

But if MPs has a lot of firepower then that wouldnt make sense.

MPs are designated Combat Service Support, like medics and clerks. While route recon/security and POW operations are what most think MPs do, it is only a small set out of a much larger area of operation. Our common area of operation in a war is the gap between the FEBA (Forward Edge of the Battle Area) and rear. Combat is way more fluid now. You will have forces bypass areas entirely to quickly capture key objective, leaving large pockets of potential resistance all through your avenues of supply and advance. A common Soviet tactic was to insert a "dirt team" in these areas, hide and wait for the battle area to pass by. Then come out a day later and start sewing destruction. Very similar to special forces ops where they are inserted behind enemy lines. MPs train in dirt team tactics, so do scouts and special forces. Also, since the FEBA is fluid an area that was the front line an hour ago could be an avenue of advance or we could have fallen back and now that area is behind enemy lines. MP train in small unit tactics (mounted and dismounted) to handle operations of that nature. MPs also handle a lot of "guard" or "patrol" like duties in urban environments, what civilians would take to be a cops job. But a cop fielding heavy weapons in crappy locals. I manned a check point in Bosnia to keep the Christians and the Muslims from getting to each other. We got it from both sides. I spent my time in the sand (Kuwait) doing everything from patrols, bomb detection, inprocessing/outprocessing/customs to scouting enemy positions and calling for fire (air strikes and artillery).

I was a "Field B!tch". Out of my five years in the service, three years I was playing in the dirt. Either training for deployments, on deployment or recovering from deployments. One year I was chemical surity (guarding chemical weapons) and one year doing law and order (cop work).

Every Brigade has a platoon of MPs to help smooth their operations but individual units take care of their own judicial functions out in the field. Cage Kickers (MPs specialized in POW/Jail operations) handle the square pegs who don't want to fit in round holes anymore. If it is bad enough, the send them back state side and have the home bound unit take care of the problem. MPs don't police soldiers in the field. We are too busy about making supplies move smoothly, so the tip of the spear can do what they do best... get back to killing.

[elloco999]

Yes. In the US Army, an MP squad (9 troops) has more firepower than an infantry platoon (23 to 30 troops). International peacekeepers that carry the big stick!

Now this makes me wonder how a MP squad is armed..! Either my image of how a standard infantry squad is armed is way off, or MP's carry some serious firepower!

Now I'm not an American nor have I ever served in any army, but I always thought that a standard US Army infantry squad was armed with M4's/M16's (possibly some with M203's) and SAW's. If a MP squad has more firepower than an infantry platoon, are they all carrying M240's and missile launchers or something?

[AmericanSteel]

Yes. In the US Army, an MP squad (9 troops) has more firepower than an infantry platoon (23 to 30 troops). International peacekeepers that carry the big stick!

Now this makes me wonder how a MP squad is armed..! Either my image of how a standard infantry squad is armed is way off, or MP's carry some serious firepower!

Now I'm not an American nor have I ever served in any army, but I always thought that a standard US Army infantry squad was armed with M4's/M16's (possibly some with M203's) and SAW's. If a MP squad has more firepower than an infantry platoon, are they all carrying M240's and missile launchers or something?

At MP squad is three teams of three soldiers: team leader, driver and gunner. We usually have a .50 cal or a Mk-19 mounted up top. If you have a dual mount, the second one is usually a SAW. The gunner can also draw a M60. The driver has an M16 and the team leader carries the M16/M203 combo. When I was in Canada and Kuwait, we had the .50 mounted and I carry the M60 for dismounted operations. When I was in Bosnia they were starting to bring in the SAW. So our team still drew the .50/M60 loadout AND took a SAW. This allow a three man team mounted and moving to use the .50 cal. Parked we could bring the .50, M60 and SAW to bear. After digging a defilade for the truck (on overwatch)

and sand bagging closer to the checkpoint, we could send a freakish amount of lead toward an enemy. Dismounted, depended on the OP... though we never dismounted or left for OP in Bosnia (we were either an checkpoint, convoys, etc). The Mk-19 is grande, but it is a fire support weapon NOT a direct fire weapon. So its uses become more limited. If we moved as a squad, we would sometimes bring an Mk-19 along for the ride... but most gunners preferred the .50 (I know I did).

In a Platoon moving operation (which almost never happens) you have two squads and the Lt's truck. Usually the Lts truck is equiped with the Mk-19 (since they are back at the TOC). However, dismounted you then have 21 soldiers forming a wedge. So you would have seven M16/M203, seven M16s and seven gunners sportings SAWS or M60s. Not to mention we carried shoulder fired missiles (like the AT-4 or Javelin), claymores, grenades and other toys in the truck. Even if we have a mission drop fast, we have a lot of gear to draw from in a mobile platform.

Needless to say, that is a lot of lead that can go downrange and be VERY mobile. I liked that we could move faster than dismounted infantry, did dismounted operations, carried a heavy load and swung a big stick. Chances are, if command had a peg that needed pounding we had a hammer that could dot he job.

Personally I believe the SAW is a sacrifice. You sacrifice weight for distance and penetration. I would rather take a M60 carrying 7.62 NATO over a SAW carrying 5.56 NATO. I have also done urban operations were the driver replaced his M16 with a shotgun, or carried both.

[bBvideo 560,340:2ck4uu4a]

[/bBvideo]

[EternityTide]

Were you deployed for the situation in Kosovo and Serbia as well?

[AmericanSteel]

Were you deployed for the situation in Kosovo and Serbia as well?

Just Bosnia. The UN "inaction", ethnic cleansing and general political non-sense made the whole thing a cluster-fu.k. There were a lot of good people, on both sides of the line. However, there was also a lot of old hate. Reminded me of a Sicilian Vendetta or a good ole fashion Blood Feud. The soviets displaced so many peoples during their occupation, people with no "history" were resettled. Add 40 years and whole generations have only know their area of Bosnia as their home BUT it was not "really" their home, says the people who were there before. It was a time bomb. Collapse of the existing government, old system was run through fear, meager resources, hunger... throw in a religious match all they were all burning themselves on the pyre. I know this was a Serb and Croat issue, but it really felt like a Christian & Muslim issue to me. That said, I was just some Private doing what I was told and trying to keep some sort of peace.

My team manned a check point in the middle of it all for about a month. Some engineers dug a pit and left us some dirt. We then sand bagged the position by the road and reinforced it with every scrap we could find. We also dug our hummer up into the hill, to overwatch our road position. Another MP team was about 1000m up the road and they over watched our position. Another MP team did the same thing... and on it went around this hill. The LT was on top of the hill, with an additional truck.. so we had a MK-19 and a .50 cal to overwatch everyone else. Multiple fields of fire, all cross linked. Down the road and more "in the valley" on the Christian side there was an Infantry Squad with a Bradly Fighting Vehicle. We oversaw UN Convoys, inspections, etc. Tried to make sure people did not cross our zone to cause trouble.

We then pulled up stakes and went somewhere else. We came back through the area on our way out about six weeks later and it was like we were never there. As soon as we left, they started killing each other. One death piled on top of another and another. Soon you did not know who started it, but someone was going to finish it. Why were we even there?! Must be how the soldier felt in Vietnam to hold dirt, leave, see chaos sow in their wake, come back, hold the ground, leave... SOOO, we cleaned the place up and waited for more UN troops to relieve us. After we left, who knows what they did.

First US soldier to get injured in Bosnia was an MP from the 4th ID, 4th MP Co. They ran over a mine. The propane canisters they used for heat were stashed under the drivers seat. They went up when the mine did. Really screwed him up. But, they all lived. That said, the freakiest thing were the mines that were scattered EVERYWHERE. Walking off the beaten path was a sure way to get killed. Anyway, the mines were not "set", there were placed. Usually you have to prep the ground and set the mines. Instead they were scattered about like someone dropped a set of plastic dishes during a picnic. The rains would cause them to slide down hills and settle in depressions. It then snowed and the ground hardened. In the middle of the night they would just go off as the ground hardened and squeezed the mine. So after every storm, you had to reclear ALL of your foot paths. You would just get done clearing a path or securing a road, a storm would roll through and you would have to do it all again. Wet, cold, muddy.... I think it took me a week to thaw/dry out once I got home.

[exeexe]

Were you deployed for the situation in Kosovo and Serbia as well?

Just Bosnia. The UN "inaction", ethnic cleansing and general political non-sense made the whole thing a cluster-fu.k.

If these are subject to your interest, then i can recommend watching a documentary called The Last Just Man. But its kind of brutal

[elloco999]

Thanks for the explanation AmericanSteel. I didn't realize MP's are always mounted.

[AmericanSteel]

Thanks for the explanation AmericanSteel. I didn't realize MP's are always mounted.

On a Brigade level we have to assist in maintaining supplies throughout avenue of advance. My platoon in the 4th ID was attached to a mechanized brigade, the 3rd BCT. Because they were motorized, we had to be motorized. Something as simple as a route recon requires a truck. You need to be able to advise the highers of what conditions are actually like on the ground in real time. A map cannot offer that. Something as simple as escorting a convey (which is a big part of the job) also requires a truck. When you have to cover a lot of ground to get from mission to mission, again a truck is needed. However, if we were to investigate a dirt team then dismounted operations would be a must. If we were going to ambush the enemy (because we went behind enemy lines to support an op), then dismounted would be the way to go. A truck just gives off to large a signature (visual, audible and heat), not to mention tracking a truck going through the wood line is like tracking an elephant... real easy.

I have done urban operations on foot, in a truck and in a truck supporting dismounted troops. Having a truck is nice, but it also makes you THE target for enemy fire. So you have to know when mobility is key, when dismounted is key or when to shift fire when something changes.

[Ruhroe]

I'm resurrecting this thread! Actually, we had talked about Frostbite way back near the start to help reduce going naked. I was thinking of starting a thread on it and thought to check to see if it's been discussed since, and I see it is here.

It's a good suggestion, and could work along the lines of Hypothermia. On sunny warmer parts of the day it would take longer to get it, but not too long. Every exposed part could be susceptible. There's a whole host of things which could happen for consequences and solutions, depending on how long the Devs want to let someone run around naked, how often, and under what circumstances (balance issue stuff).