Episode 4 rushed?

[Thorumsu]

Before anyone starts roasting me, I loved the episode. I really did. I played it several times just to experience it again. The episode was well made, The animations were top notch. The music was so good as always and I did not encounter a single bug but... plot holes. Now, I know that I bring this up a lot but these plot holes annoy me a lot. Some examples:

- At the start of episode 4, Mackenzie tells Mathis "I told you I was stubborn" even tho he never Told him that.

-At the PART FOUR: DONNER, After Mathis promises that he will destroy everything he loves, Mackenzie says "The Wardens Office, Hardcase". How does he know that the Hardcase is there? I dont remember Mathis saying him that. This really ruined that scene for me as I expected to LOOK for it rather than weirdly knowing where it is.  

I have more examples in my other post. How could they miss these? I theorise that they rushed the episode. Yes, I think there was supposed to be a scene where Mackenzie learns where the Hardcase is and yes, I think there was supposed to be a scene where Mackenzie says Mathis that he is stubborn. I think these were cut out due to time limits. At least... I HOPE that. Because I dont want to believe that Hinterland would do a mistake like this right???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Raphael, This post better be right or I will find you...

Edited January 8, 2022 by Thorumsu
Grammar fixe- I will find you...

[Guest jeffpeng]

From Raphael's Twitter:

Quote

More stubborn than you.

In a way Mackenzie and Raphael are probably one and the same person. Every writer's hero is part themselves, part of what they aspire to be, part of what they are afraid of becoming.

[Thorumsu]

So you are saying that Mackenzie knows things he should not because he is our dear Raphael? Well... not a satisfaying conclusion to the plot holes but... It saved Raphael... from me   

[Nervous Pete]

 

There's the odd mistake in the Long Dark, I think some of them are due to content they couldn't quite provide in time, others due to a late concern that the player might not know what to do so a bit of exposition dialogue is thrown in where it wouldn't otherwise would be. Happily my brain papers over these cracks pretty well with some deft head-canon. My only two issues with storytelling in Episode 4 is that...

1: It should have been established that MacKenzie has a hidey-hole for his gear that only he knows about, perhaps in a hole in the wall behind a poster of Rita Hayworh. The grim inmates of Black Rock seem incredibly averse to nipping across the chilly prison courtyard to check up on my shenanigans in the guardhouse, anyway. 

2: A minor grip in what was probably the best written episode yet, but I get mildly annoyed at intelligent characters being plucky when they have an incredibly horrendous fate at hand - namely in this case Jace. She's a fine new character and I look forward to seeing what she brings in Episode 5, but her "I've been dealing with guys like you..." thing at a bunch of thugs armed with axes struck me as a little odd. A whispered, "Oh God..." would have sold the tension in the scene a lot more. Other than that, her stuff was good. 

I think overall the writing has jumped up a notch once again. Matthis and his henchmen in particular are excellent. 

 

[piddy3825]

Have you ever looked at the credits at the end of the game and seen the huge number of people who were working on this project?  And, from all around the world, too.   It's staggering.  It'll take you almost 15 minutes to watch the whole clip. 

You can imagine that working on a project this big from home without the daily ongoing office banter that would normally alert coworkers to minor issues in their project probably had an impact on the "issues" everybody has been griping about.  Considering the time it took to finally get this episode out, some might consider it was rushed and others may consider it grossly overdue.   It's easy for me to believe that the team members, each working in relative isolation each believed their portion of the project was complete and flawless.  But like so many things are fabricated offsite and later assembled elsewhere, it's obvious to us all that there were a few flaws in the plans.  Episode 4 probably would have turned out a bit different from a continuity perspective if the team had been onsite and actively collaborating during development and production.  What we ended up getting was decent, albeit rushed.  

It makes me wonder who the beta testers were and what their instructions were as they play tested the episode prior to release.  I think they only really payed attention to the most glaringly obvious discrepancies, like meshes, texturing and the like.  If they had been instructed to concentrate on how the story line unfolds, then I would have to say, they failed in their due diligence, the same way that the guy responsible for the wonky wolf animations failed in his.

[Leeanda]

Got to say I hardly ever read the credits unless I recognize a voice and want to know who it is. 

I have to say though that it does seem a bit rushed and needed a bit more time to work on some of the kinks. But I actually like some of these bugs , it makes the game more challenging and fun. But I get it can get frustrating sometimes. I think hinterland were just doing the best they could under the very difficult circumstances while also trying to please all the fans who were clamouring for some new content. 

You can't please everyone , unfortunately!  But personally I take my hat off to them for giving us what they have, after all there haven't been many other companies bringing out games at all in the last year or two .

[Thorumsu]

I dont skip the credits but dont really read them other than the voice cast to be honest. I dont skip because I love the credits music.

[Glflegolas]

On 1/18/2022 at 3:41 PM, Nervous Pete said:

 

There's the odd mistake in the Long Dark, I think some of them are due to content they couldn't quite provide in time, others due to a late concern that the player might not know what to do so a bit of exposition dialogue is thrown in where it wouldn't otherwise would be. Happily my brain papers over these cracks pretty well with some deft head-canon. My only two issues with storytelling in Episode 4 is that...

...

2: A minor grip in what was probably the best written episode yet, but I get mildly annoyed at intelligent characters being plucky when they have an incredibly horrendous fate at hand - namely in this case Jace. She's a fine new character and I look forward to seeing what she brings in Episode 5, but her "I've been dealing with guys like you..." thing at a bunch of thugs armed with axes struck me as a little odd. A whispered, "Oh God..." would have sold the tension in the scene a lot more. Other than that, her stuff was good. 

I think overall the writing has jumped up a notch once again. Matthis and his henchmen in particular are excellent. 

 

===Warning: post contains spoilers===

For point #2, I think what Jace is referring to when she says "I've been dealing with guys like you", what she refers to is *probably* that, as a young Black woman in astrophysics, she's dealt with a lot of racism over the years from older white duds like Mathis for years. I personally don't have a problem with that.

That scene you're referring to in general, however, is a bit goofy-looking IMO. As someone with a black belt in karate, I'm gonna pretend to be "CinemaSins" and show you what I mean:

Why is Mathis the only one of all those criminals who's armed? What are all his thugs there for? Emotional support? Come on, they had rifles and were shooting at Mackenzie as he was trying to escape the prison!

Really, Mathis? You look like you've never fought with an axe before. The fact that you're about to strike next is so obvious literally anyone could block it and/or hit you. I'd give this a pass if you were some inexperienced thug, but you're a career criminal and must have been in a street fight or two. If I were Mathis, I'd use my left hand to stun Mackenzie (who's no doubt focusing highly intently on that impending axe-strike) and then follow up with the axe. Or, why not get my feet involved and smash out Mackenzie's knee? Steel-toed boots would make short work of it.

See, this is what happens when you give your moves away.

I have no complaints about Mackenzie on the other hand. He did as well as can be reasonably expected for someone who hasn't had to fight hand-to-hand for his life before.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Glflegolas
Sharing some more of my combat knowledge

[piddy3825]

17 minutes ago, Glflegolas said:

I have no complaints about Mackenzie on the other hand. He did as well as can be reasonably expected for someone who hasn't had to fight hand-to-hand for his life before.

Lol, but little did you know that Mackenzie's favorite movie was "Knockaround Guys," 
which he had watched 500 times and so was able to channel his inner Taylor Reese
and dish up a beat down of his own!

[Alpenwolf]

Will the next episode be the epilogue? 🤐🥺

 

[piddy3825]

5 hours ago, Alpenwolf said:

Will the next episode be the epilogue? 🤐🥺

 

yes it will. 
Episode 5 will be the final installment to the story.
At least, that's what I am lead to believe from reading the latest post in the Developer's Diary.

[Alpenwolf]

59 minutes ago, piddy3825 said:

yes it will. 
Episode 5 will be the final installment to the story.
At least, that's what I am lead to believe from reading the latest post in the Developer's Diary.

no no no no no ! I do not accept this answer. Try again please 🤐

[piddy3825]

29 minutes ago, Alpenwolf said:

no no no no no ! I do not accept this answer. Try again please 🤐

well on a postive note, they did say that there could be some down loadable content that may become available later on?  For a fee of course!  
And not to mention with collaborative efforts with the modding community there could also be some excellent story mods being developed that could
really be helpful in fleshing out the story line as we know it.  to that end, I think it would be excellent to play the game from Methusela's perspective.  Playing the story 
as a third party observer, somehow present yet unnoticed.  Now that would be a great story mod worth buying, dontcha think?

[I_eat_only_wolf_meat]

2 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

And not to mention with collaborative efforts with the modding community there could also be some excellent story mods being developed that could
really be helpful in fleshing out the story line as we know it. 

I was thinking it would be really interesting if some of the third party add-on mods could be added to survival mode in a balanced and controlled way.  Could be a way to alleviate boredom.  e.g., something like the scent-proof bag being craftable at 100 days survival, the "candle" mod at 200 days, and so on.  A bit of a tangent, I know.  I wanted to mention it before I forgot about it

[piddy3825]

1 hour ago, I_eat_only_wolf_meat said:

I was thinking it would be really interesting if some of the third party add-on mods could be added to survival mode in a balanced and controlled way.  Could be a way to alleviate boredom.  e.g., something like the scent-proof bag being craftable at 100 days survival, the "candle" mod at 200 days, and so on.  A bit of a tangent, I know.  I wanted to mention it before I forgot about it

These are good suggestions.  Maybe you should reiterate these ideas on the Modding Community thread, just in case those mod authors are not following this thread?

Oh and btw, I really like your new avatar, looks like wolfmeat bacon!  yum!

[Alpenwolf]

11 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

Maintenant, ce serait un excellent mod d'histoire qui vaut la peine d'être acheté, vous ne pensez pas ?

Totally agree. I've been playing TLD since its release, I've bought everything even the game's music albums. I like to use different mods for each custom game, depending on the scenario I want. The idea of having HS content in association with modders sounds great to me.