A MUST HAVE for UI improvements: A Thermos

[philthechamp]

A thermos would serve the primary purpose of cleaning up the cooking/crafting UI by allowing one to store 1-2L worth of tea/coffee in a container on their person. I imagine it would take up an equipment slot but would be incredibly useful, almost essential. Often times reishi and rose tea take up over 2 dozen slots on the inventory menu, and it is frustrating for both console and PC players to navigate which of the many red/yellow teas are the ones that were recently heated up. A thermos would allow you to put most or all of the hot teas of one type into a single slot and only track one amount of liquid that is cooling. This is SO NECESSARY. Please consider implementing it. Currently 1 cup of tea costs 0.25L of water but weighs 0.10kg and takes up a full inventory slot. If 6 doses of tea could be stored in a thermos it would amount to 1.5L of water invested, standard weight for a campers thermos. I'm not sure what the breakdown of the medicinal benefits would look like, but to me that is secondary. If weight could stick to around 1kg or 1.6kg when full then a thermos would easily be one of the most fun items to carry around on long journeys. Thanks for reading!

[ajb1978]

16 minutes ago, philthechamp said:

Often times reishi and rose tea take up over 2 dozen slots on the inventory menu, and it is frustrating for both console and PC players to navigate which of the many red/yellow teas are the ones that were recently heated up.

When viewed in your inventory, food and medical items have a "Show in Radial" checkbox. Items selected will override the game's default decisions. So in this way you can prep your own food and first aid menu as you see fit.

[philthechamp]

15 minutes ago, ajb1978 said:

When viewed in your inventory, food and medical items have a "Show in Radial" checkbox. Items selected will override the game's default decisions. So in this way you can prep your own food and first aid menu as you see fit.

I have checked things with the show in radial marker which is helpful but for me that doesn't solve the overall issue of clutter. Also if 4 different teas are of the same color there is no way to tell which was made first. I assume that the one that is listed first is the most cool but thats not always the case. There is also the issue of the linear list when youre sitting above a fire and having to click through scrolls of tea before getting to the new piece of raw meat. Its not so much the heating benefit as just trying to consolidate things. The drinks should stay hot longer just to make the extra weight have a tangible payoff but thats negotiable IMO

[UpUpAway95]

However, you would need a different type of thermos for each different type of tea.  That is, thermos 1 would have to know it contains Birch Bark Tea; thermos 2 would have to know it has Rose Hip Tea, thermos 3 would have to know it has reshi tea; thermos 4 would have to know it has coffee; and thermos 5 would have to know it has herbal tea.  I'd need to be carrying 5 thermos to have a full selection of teas and coffee in my inventory... as opposed to 1 cup of each (5 kg vs. 0.5kg).

Edited January 5, 2021 by UpUpAway95

[philthechamp]

12 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

However, you would need a different type of thermos for each different type of tea.  That is, thermos 1 would have to know it contains Birch Bark Tea; thermos 2 would have to know it has Rose Hip Tea, thermos 3 would have to know it has reshi tea; thermos 4 would have to know it has coffee; and thermos 5 would have to know it has herbal tea.  I'd need to be carrying 5 thermos to have a full selection of teas and coffee in my inventory... as opposed to 1 cup of each (5 kg vs. 0.5kg).

There would have to be a good balance of volume/ weight to make it work. I imagine once you drink all of its contents you could put any of the teas in there though. It would have to 'know' during the time you put in the first cup to when its empty which is a good point. I really only imagine there being 1 thermos that you find and take around.  It would be nice to have high volume access to all teas but focusing on maintaining 5-6 doses of one type for a day trip and only having to track 1 heat bonus is all it would need to do. You usually never have enough time to drink more than a few teas per attempt at heating up so after that it wouldn't be necessary. Extending that "hot" duration with the thermos or having it prevent burning would make it really useful but its mostly just a way to limit clutter for day trips, yeah. For me it just feels less game designey to track one thing. A lot of people drop a bunch of tea cups around a fire to heat them up at once which is cool but people do that bc they want to avoid the crafting menu... Anyway If I had a thermos with reishi teas, for instance,  I could drink and add to it while keeping something less frequently used like birch bark or coffee in the normal cups. It would definitely save on inventory.

Edited January 5, 2021 by philthechamp

[UpUpAway95]

2 hours ago, philthechamp said:

There would have to be a good balance of volume/ weight to make it work. I imagine once you drink all of its contents you could put any of the teas in there though. It would have to 'know' during the time you put in the first cup to when its empty which is a good point. I really only imagine there being 1 thermos that you find and take around.  It would be nice to have high volume access to all teas but focusing on maintaining 5-6 doses of one type for a day trip and only having to track 1 heat bonus is all it would need to do. You usually never have enough time to drink more than a few teas per attempt at heating up so after that it wouldn't be necessary. Extending that "hot" duration with the thermos or having it prevent burning would make it really useful but its mostly just a way to limit clutter for day trips, yeah. For me it just feels less game designey to track one thing. A lot of people drop a bunch of tea cups around a fire to heat them up at once which is cool but people do that bc they want to avoid the crafting menu... Anyway If I had a thermos with reishi teas, for instance,  I could drink and add to it while keeping something less frequently used like birch bark or coffee in the normal cups. It would definitely save on inventory.

I think it would be much, much simpler to just reskin the teacups as thermal cups with lids, keeping the weight the same (but not allowing people to sip off most of the medicinal teas and still get a full dose of painkiller or antibiotics)... and perhaps extend the hot duration by a little bit (if the devs feel this doesn't make the warming effect of teas too OP).  The more important issue is with controlling the volume consumed vs. the dose of the effect.  As it is now, it is clearly subject to an exploit and, as proposed, would be subject to an even greater exploit.  One shouldn't be able to get 10 doses of antibiotics out of 2 reshi mushrooms by taking little sips from a thermos, where the volume consumed would not be strictly controlled.  Water is different because it has no effect other than satiating thirst and you drink as much as is needed to merely quench your thirst.

Edited January 5, 2021 by UpUpAway95

[philthechamp]

1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I think it would be much, much simpler to just reskin the teacups as thermal cups with lids, keeping the weight the same (but not allowing people to sip off most of the medicinal teas and still get a full dose of painkiller or antibiotics)... and perhaps extend the hot duration by a little bit (if the devs feel this doesn't make the warming effect of teas too OP).  The more important issue is with controlling the volume consumed vs. the dose of the effect.  As it is now, it is clearly subject to an exploit and, as proposed, would be subject to an even greater exploit.

I'm actually not very familiar with the exploit, but that does seem like something that should be changed. Then putting them all in one slot wouldn't really matter? I agree that the real issue becomes about dosage if they're all going to share a slot but I'm not sure what you mean by changing skins. To me there could be benefit for every 0.2 L consumed (or something like that), meaning for every 4 teas saved you get 1 extra boost. You could always save 0.01L of tea in its own slot to stack and drink but thats kind of more work than its worth IMO. To me its about a built in reward for efficient management (not needing to empty the thermos but always filling it) rather than scrumming little bits of tea from each cup. 

Edited January 5, 2021 by philthechamp

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, philthechamp said:

I'm actually not very familiar with the exploit, but that does seem like something that should be changed. Then putting them all in one slot wouldn't really matter? I agree that the real issue becomes about dosage if they're all going to share a slot but I'm not sure what you mean by changing skins. To me there could be benefit for every 0.2 L consumed (or something like that), meaning for every 4 teas saved you get 1 extra boost. You could always save 0.01L of tea in its own slot to stack and drink but thats kind of more work than its worth IMO. To me its about a built in reward for efficient management (not needing to empty the thermos but always filling it) rather than scrumming little bits of tea from each cup. 

Think about how water works (which IS in your inventory in one slot).  You drink off the top, as much or as little as you wish, and the rest remains in the jug in your inventory.  The current "mini-tea exploit" works by drinking most of the cup of tea to get the majority of the calories from it and the liquid and just leaving a little bit in the BOTTOM of the cup.  This little bit can be used at a later time as a full dose of medicine, but in the meantime it reduces the weight of the tea.  Currently, you do only get one full dose of medicine per tea.  However, if you put multiple teas in a single container, it would work like the water jug... you would drink as little or as much as you could to satiate your thirst (no control over whether or not you're drinking the equivalent of 1 full tea).  Since you could add a tea to an already partially filled thermos... how is the game really going to be able to keep track of the doses of medicine left in the thermos... it would have to count each sip you take from the thermos regardless of how much liquid you extracted from the thermos during that drink.  That's a problem that makes the current exploit even more exploitable.  As I said, I think it's simpler to reskin the cups into thermal cups.  Your inventory really isn't limited by "slots" anyways... it's limited by weight.  If you find the existence of many cups immersion breaking, you do have the option of only making up one of each type of tea at a time and carrying the rest in the dry prepared state.

Edited January 5, 2021 by UpUpAway95

[philthechamp]

1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

If you find the existence of many cups immersion breaking, you do have the option of only making up one of each type of tea at a time and carrying the rest in the dry prepared state.

I would definitely do that if it didnt take as much time/ a match to drop and add more tea to the inventory. They're very useful to have at the ready. I think it already functions like the water jug though, in that you can stop drinking at any time and it leaves behind a partial amount. Why not just list them under their own slot? I don't think the skin is what urks me as much as having to heat them all up individually. The heating up function is what would be harder to track for the game imo because if you can reheat continuously rather than give a static amount of medicine (which I don't think is entirely broken people are just skimming for calories and treating it like a painkiller, which also stack up to 6 in your inventory)

[UpUpAway95]

28 minutes ago, philthechamp said:

I would definitely do that if it didnt take as much time/ a match to drop and add more tea to the inventory. They're very useful to have at the ready. I think it already functions like the water jug though, in that you can stop drinking at any time and it leaves behind a partial amount. Why not just list them under their own slot? I don't think the skin is what urks me as much as having to heat them all up individually. The heating up function is what would be harder to track for the game imo because if you can reheat continuously rather than give a static amount of medicine (which I don't think is entirely broken people are just skimming for calories and treating it like a painkiller, which also stack up to 6 in your inventory)

It's what is realistic though... to take that match and time and make up your teas one at a time... as you realized what sort of tea/medicine you needed and wanting to keep your "tea bags" fresh.  You can transport fire on calm days by carrying torches and lighting the next torch from the previous one as it exhausts itself.  The game makes grabbing torches from a fire very easy and gives the player a warmth bonus when carrying a torch... so you don't really have to use a match each time.  As for the time it takes - 13 minutes tops (at level 1 cooking in a tin can).

Furthermore, if you set them down beside your campfire, they will heat up... all together if you wish.

Edited January 5, 2021 by UpUpAway95

[philthechamp]

21 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Furthermore, if you set them down beside your campfire, they will heat up... all together if you wish.

But thats the point. It breaks immersion to drop and click a bunch of times every time you need to stop, which as an interloper player is already pretty frequent considering torch chaining is essential. I'm suggesting to displace that work onto tracking the decline of one volume in a physical container that can itself can be placed around. I think it provides a unique immersive quality which I feel like some players would naturally adapt to, and I just like that it doesn't have to provide a huge buff to be useful. Personally it seems more realistic because individual cups accumulate very quickly and this gives the player a reasonable way to manage them. I dont think you should be able to cook with this thing but if you take a few seconds to "pour" the tea in it might stay heated slightly longer (depending on the volume, which would be key). I would keep most of my dry tea at a base and pour hot tea in the thermos while in that safe zone before going off for the day. If I need to stop again to heat up more  so be it but I would just prefer to operate out of one thing rather than bunch of scattered things. I think the game already has a reasonable balance with the teas now, I just think this is better and hopefully wouldn't fundamentally change much. 

[UpUpAway95]

30 minutes ago, philthechamp said:

But thats the point. It breaks immersion to drop and click a bunch of times every time you need to stop, which as an interloper player is already pretty frequent considering torch chaining is essential. I'm suggesting to displace that work onto tracking the decline of one volume in a physical container that can itself can be placed around. I think it provides a unique immersive quality which I feel like some players would naturally adapt to, and I just like that it doesn't have to provide a huge buff to be useful. Personally it seems more realistic because individual cups accumulate very quickly and this gives the player a reasonable way to manage them. I dont think you should be able to cook with this thing but if you take a few seconds to "pour" the tea in it might stay heated slightly longer (depending on the volume, which would be key). I would keep most of my dry tea at a base and pour hot tea in the thermos while in that safe zone before going off for the day. If I need to stop again to heat up more  so be it but I would just prefer to operate out of one thing rather than bunch of scattered things. I think the game already has a reasonable balance with the teas now, I just think this is better and hopefully wouldn't fundamentally change much. 

You said it bothers you to heat them one at a time... but they don't heat one at a time if you drop them by the fire.  I addressed your immersion issue... immersive play would mean you would brew them one at a time as you plan to drink them and then you'd drink them hot while sitting by the fire.  Yes, a thermos IRL would allow you to pack a couple of cups worth of tea, but of only one kind of tea and you wouldn't be able to get, as a result, a dose of painkiller from a sip off the top (or the bottom of the cup as it is now).  Still, it has to "work" within the game frame.  Changing things to allow a thermos would complicate the calculation of a "dose" of medicine.  Right now, you don't get a dose until you empty the cup, but I ask again... How are you going to determine how many doses the player is removing from a thermos that can be added to and subtracted from endlessly without ever truly draining the thermos?  How are you going to accommodate those of us who like to carry more than 1 type of tea and also a coffee for their different buffs without making us carry an inordinate amount of empty thermos weight?

[Avril]

I want this thermos. A big ass food thermos. It can hold my warm peaches.

[philthechamp]

19 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

You said it bothers you to heat them one at a time...  Changing things to allow a thermos would complicate the calculation of a "dose" of medicine.  Right now, you don't get a dose until you empty the cup, but I ask again... How are you going to determine how many doses the player is removing from a thermos that can be added to and subtracted from endlessly without ever truly draining the thermos?  How are you going to accommodate those of us who like to carry more than 1 type of tea and also a coffee for their different buffs without making us carry an inordinate amount of empty thermos weight?

If they introduce a new item I hope it would absolutely still allow you to carry the same individual cups around. Thats why I think it should be a new item in the first place and not an entire overhaul. To add to what I was saying about the medicine, I think that if they made it so you have to drink X (0.2 or 0.25 which is the whole cup) within 1 day to get the buff it would be a solution to the exploit and make it easier to track the teas. This would mean that you risk losing the buff if you did half tea one day and half the other but there are ways around that both in design and user decisions. At least then its about totally consumption rather than tracking which 0.1L of tea is the one that gives you the boost. I still just feel that even if the cups are dropped and heated around a fire at the same time they are still managed entirely as individual cups and individual clicks. That right there is what I'm trying to avoid. If you like that and enjoy building a massive tea garden (which I have seen youtubers do and is really enjoyable) I hope that this wouldn't change that but just give someone the option during an interloper run when theres more of a crunch for every second. I also don't imagine it would be a carry around everywhere item but something that you integrate into a playstyle as needed. We haven't even talked about the potential to cook more than on does of tea in the 2L pot but I think that would be part of it too, or at least "heating up" more than one dose. In the original post I was really trying to sell it and was saying how it is essential a thermos is, which I personally believe, but I don't think that means it should be required. If that makes sense

[odizzido]

Hopefully if they did add a thermos the devs could look at this