Timberwolves on Timberwolf Mountain.

[Salty Crackers]

TWM has plenty of wolves, but no timberwolves. Its whole existence is a lie. A few packs of timberwolves (not to the extent of BI) would make the Summit a more interesting challenge.

A few rebalances may be needed:

Make all other Distress Pistol spawns non-guaranteed. If you only want the flare gun, why would you risk summiting if you can just climb down the Ravine?

Only put timberwolves on the approach to the summit, maybe patrolling by some of the cargo containers. Keep regular wolves by the Mountaineer's Hut.

Or simply rename it to Wolf Mountain.

[MyNameIsMoshes]

Timberwolf Mountain is named so because the face of the mountain looks like a Timberwolfs head in its appearance. This is highlighted on the loading screen that shows TWM. The twin snowy peaks at the top are it's ears. 

[UpUpAway95]

Please, no.  Having them in Bleak Inlet is bad enough.  If they want to add them to TWM, the perhaps add a toggle to the custom menu to turn them on or off in specific zones in addition to the curren toggle to turn them on or off completely.  AFAIK there are only two other spawns of the distress pistol - the Ravine (which is guaranteed) and the Bleak Inlet lightouse (which is not guaranteed).  I think the one in the bottom of the Ravine should be left as a guaranteed one since it gives players the chance to get one before encountering Timberwolves on the lower difficulty levels (where the more less experienced players are likely to be playing).  I also don't think the incentive for climbing TWM is the distress pistol... it's because it's a fairly surefire shot at getting a variety of quality gear in general and it is for the mystique of the climb itself (because it's there).  If they do remove a guaranteed distress pistol spawn, it should be the one on top of TWM, not the one in the ravine.

[Salty Crackers]

BI really isn't that bad. All the timberwolves can be avoided (except if you want to loot the Cannery, where a marine flare will scare them off easily for a couple hours), although you have to take less direct paths. The real killer is the CONSTANT headwind and bitter cold making it hard to make it to the FM cave without losing a good amount of condition.

The current meta is to rush the summit (maybe doing AC first), getting the tons of loot before day 10. After you've done it so many times, it gets pretty easy as long as you have a bedroll. Timberwolf packs shouldn't be positioned at choke points, but if you go too far off the path (or get really unlucky with a bear scaring them towards you), you would be in for a fight. There wouldn't be a pack 'guarding' the Summit like at the Cannery, only on the way to the Summit.

Originally, the only distress pistol spawn was on the Summit. Later, it was added to the Ravine. The Basin was a dead end and the rope was punishingly long, so if you were too tired to get out (or forgot your bedroll), you were trapped and died. As of now, you have a bed in the cave in the Basin and an access point to BI, so there really isn't much risk at all. While it gets relatively easy to summit after doing it many times, it is still somewhat of a challenge, versus climbing up a single long rope close to shelter in the Dam. There is a fourth distress pistol spawn in HRV by a randomly spawning corpse, but I don't know if it is guaranteed. As HRV can be punishing to unprepared players and the location varies each game, I'm fine with it.

The distress pistol really isn't good against timberwolves. The reload is too long and ammo scarce. It's better than nothing, but the marine flare is simply better in all respects, practically guaranteeing victory as timberwolves won't attack as you hold it and each throw drains a good amount of morale. Marine flares aren't hard to find either, with guaranteed spots in the FM-BI cave, the hunting blind by the birch trees, and in the Cannery Worker Residences, among other places. They are hard to find outside BI, as HL hasn't overhauled the loot tables in a while, but that isn't the highest priority for them over something like Episode 4. If timberwolves were added to other regions, you would certainly see some new marine flare spots in other maps.

[UpUpAway95]

7 minutes ago, Salty Crackers said:

BI really isn't that bad. All the timberwolves can be avoided (except if you want to loot the Cannery, where a marine flare will scare them off easily for a couple hours), although you have to take less direct paths. The real killer is the CONSTANT headwind and bitter cold making it hard to make it to the FM cave without losing a good amount of condition.

The current meta is to rush the summit (maybe doing AC first), getting the tons of loot before day 10. After you've done it so many times, it gets pretty easy as long as you have a bedroll. Timberwolf packs shouldn't be positioned at choke points, but if you go too far off the path (or get really unlucky with a bear scaring them towards you), you would be in for a fight. There wouldn't be a pack 'guarding' the Summit like at the Cannery, only on the way to the Summit.

Originally, the only distress pistol spawn was on the Summit. Later, it was added to the Ravine. The Basin was a dead end and the rope was punishingly long, so if you were too tired to get out (or forgot your bedroll), you were trapped and died. As of now, you have a bed in the cave in the Basin and an access point to BI, so there really isn't much risk at all. While it gets relatively easy to summit after doing it many times, it is still somewhat of a challenge, versus climbing up a single long rope close to shelter in the Dam. There is a fourth distress pistol spawn in HRV by a randomly spawning corpse, but I don't know if it is guaranteed. As HRV can be punishing to unprepared players and the location varies each game, I'm fine with it.

The distress pistol really isn't good against timberwolves. The reload is too long and ammo scarce. It's better than nothing, but the marine flare is simply better in all respects, practically guaranteeing victory as timberwolves won't attack as you hold it and each throw drains a good amount of morale. Marine flares aren't hard to find either, with guaranteed spots in the FM-BI cave, the hunting blind by the birch trees, and in the Cannery Worker Residences, among other places. They are hard to find outside BI, as HL hasn't overhauled the loot tables in a while, but that isn't the highest priority for them over something like Episode 4. If timberwolves were added to other regions, you would certainly see some new marine flare spots in other maps.

I thinking it's easier to start in TWM and summit first than to try to start in AC.  At least one can back out quickly to PV and get loot if a hacksaw and bedrool isn't found quickly.  If one takes the chance and pushes for a Day 1 summit, then at least death comes quickly and a new save can be started.  If they add Timberwolves to TWM, then that just would not be an option at all.  Please no.

[dbmurph22]

I don't have strong thoughts, and I'm curious what they're thinking with Timberwolves long term.  But it might be interesting to have a situation or two in which a region has both.  Maybe have one Timberwolf pack on TWM.  Deer Clearing...that would be fun eh.  lol.  

I'm probably fine without, too.  Who knows.  Subbed to thread at the very least.

Edited December 18, 2020 by dbmurph22

[Salty Crackers]

44 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I thinking it's easier to start in TWM and summit first than to try to start in AC.  At least one can back out quickly to PV and get loot if a hacksaw and bedrool isn't found quickly.  If one takes the chance and pushes for a Day 1 summit, then at least death comes quickly and a new save can be started.  If they add Timberwolves to TWM, then that just would not be an option at all.  Please no.

I personally don't like a Day 1 summit being an option at all, but there really isn't a way to prevent it. Timberwolves would make it somewhat more challenging, but I guarantee people would learn the patterns and summit anyway. If you are able to do it and really want to, go ahead.

Starting in AC is not a good idea. I was suggesting going from the Mountaineer's Hut to Echo Ravine, getting the crampons and technical pack (no rope climbs needed), and exiting via the Deer Clearing cave. It's a good strategy, and skips having to climb some of the mountain (although when I did it, I was promptly mauled by a moose on my way to the Deer Clearing cave, needing to use two stims to summit).

Edited December 18, 2020 by Salty Crackers

[UpUpAway95]

2 hours ago, Salty Crackers said:

I personally don't like a Day 1 summit being an option at all, but there really isn't a way to prevent it. Timberwolves would make it somewhat more challenging, but I guarantee people would learn the patterns and summit anyway. If you are able to do it and really want to, go ahead.

Starting in AC is not a good idea. I was suggesting going from the Mountaineer's Hut to Echo Ravine, getting the crampons and technical pack (no rope climbs needed), and exiting via the Deer Clearing cave. It's a good strategy, and skips having to climb some of the mountain (although when I did it, I was promptly mauled by a moose on my way to the Deer Clearing cave, needing to use two stims to summit).

I love the Day 1 Summit when my start is high on the mountain.  As I said, the failed attempts are blessedly short and the rewards of a successful attempt are great.  Perhaps we could compromise and put the Timberwolves between the Mountaineer's Hut and the exit to PV (where the looting at the plane and Skeeter's Ridge has made going in that direction a whole lot easier since the area was revamped for Chapter 3).

[Salty Crackers]

2 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I love the Day 1 Summit when my start is high on the mountain.  As I said, the failed attempts are blessedly short and the rewards of a successful attempt are great.  Perhaps we could compromise and put the Timberwolves between the Mountaineer's Hut and the exit to PV (where the looting at the plane and Skeeter's Ridge has made going in that direction a whole lot easier since the area was revamped for Chapter 3).

I don't like when timberwolves are used as 'guard dogs' for choke points, and with the notable exception of the Cannery, they thankfully aren't. The routes I take in BI are much less direct than they could be simply because I go far out of my way to avoid the timberwolf packs. If I want to go from the Cannery Worker Residences to the FM-BI cave, I can start fires to warm up in the overturned trailer on the Long Bridge and possibly at the Washed Out Trailers, if the wind permits (which it won't). I have to weigh the condition loss from freezing against looking for shelter and possibly encountering a pack of timberwolves. If you place timberwolves in a way where they can't be avoided, the player simply won't go to these areas if they aren't totally prepared. If the reward isn't good enough, the player will simply never go there at all. I can't warm up in the Cannery as there is no way to avoid the pack patrolling. I'm relatively comfortable in the Delta, as the timberwolves are avoidable, but if you get disoriented, there's still a chance of running into a pack. This is their best use- a formidable threat which can be dealt with using map knowledge, but a challenge to the unknowledgeable and unlucky.

The Crash Site could certainly use more challenge, but timberwolves are not the answer. I would simply put a couple of normal wolves at the site.

On another note, there is no need to compromise. My opinion is no more or less valid than yours. While I personally don't like summiting day 1 being a viable strategy, there's nothing wrong if it's one of your favorites.

[UpUpAway95]

5 hours ago, Salty Crackers said:

I don't like when timberwolves are used as 'guard dogs' for choke points, and with the notable exception of the Cannery, they thankfully aren't. The routes I take in BI are much less direct than they could be simply because I go far out of my way to avoid the timberwolf packs. If I want to go from the Cannery Worker Residences to the FM-BI cave, I can start fires to warm up in the overturned trailer on the Long Bridge and possibly at the Washed Out Trailers, if the wind permits (which it won't). I have to weigh the condition loss from freezing against looking for shelter and possibly encountering a pack of timberwolves. If you place timberwolves in a way where they can't be avoided, the player simply won't go to these areas if they aren't totally prepared. If the reward isn't good enough, the player will simply never go there at all. I can't warm up in the Cannery as there is no way to avoid the pack patrolling. I'm relatively comfortable in the Delta, as the timberwolves are avoidable, but if you get disoriented, there's still a chance of running into a pack. This is their best use- a formidable threat which can be dealt with using map knowledge, but a challenge to the unknowledgeable and unlucky.

The Crash Site could certainly use more challenge, but timberwolves are not the answer. I would simply put a couple of normal wolves at the site.

On another note, there is no need to compromise. My opinion is no more or less valid than yours. While I personally don't like summiting day 1 being a viable strategy, there's nothing wrong if it's one of your favorites.

There is a lot of space between the Mountaineer's Hut and PV that is wide open with multiple routes (i.e. not a choke point).  Place them by the landing gear, which just means the player has to take a longer way around to avoid them.  It's as valid a location for them as between the high player spawn on TWM and the top... where taking a longer way around means certain death for players summiting with limited clothing and the need to make a snow shelter in order to sleep to be able to climb the ropes (ripping up their clothing to do as it is).  At least the player going the other way can do so without sleep by mountain goating down by the PV rope and they already have the advantage of being able to sleep in the Mountaineer's Hut and start the attempt fully rested.