longer term "Quality of Life" goals

[Bulhi]

Long Dark has always been giving emphasis on survival, that means really the first few days, that are the most difficult and crucial. Once you get settled, make  or gather enough clothes, make or find enough weapons/tools and all the other necessities, it slowly but surely becomes boredom and just doing repetitive things. The sandbox version of the game probably needs to be divided philosophically into two phases:

 

1.       Survival phase – cca first 30 – 50 days, no change needed there

2.       Quality of life phase – beyond day 50

 

The second phase could contain features such as:

-          Collecting 50 books (not skill books, the regular nonnamed ones) in a particular structure/building would allow you to get rid of cabin fever just like in exterior. I simply do not see a survivor dying of boredom having many books to read. It would also be fun and make players gather books and make a base somewhere for the final part of the game.

-          Avoiding freezing for 30 or 50 days would grant you a status of well adopted to cold and give warmth bonus to the character, allowing him to better withstand colder weather. I can state my own experience as an example for this. One time when I moved in January from moderate weather in Slovakia to freezing temperatures in Colorado, US, it was a change from 0 degrees Celsius to about -20, sometimes even -30. After working in a ski resort for couple months I could stay outside very lightly dressed in those freezing temperatures. Which of course wasn't the case first couple weeks. It was a matter of adopting.

-          Avoiding starvation for an extended period of time, like 30 or 50 days, would mean you are very fit and can carry even more that the well fed bonus grants. It also improves your chances in wolf struggles. Your movement against the wind is improved as well. You do not suffer from so many sprained ankles and wrists..

-          Avoiding sprained ankle/wrist condition for 30/50 days makes you a great and careful hiker, you could have the chance of spraining something reduced greatly. 50% reduction at least.

Improving your quality of life this way takes the game a little further beyond its original intents of course. It would make people much more motivated to play that one particular run, that would otherwise become boredom after 50 or 100 days. The possibilities for these improvements are endless, it would make the game even more enjoyable, especially for those that are interested in more that just the first few days of suffering on interloper difficulty or custom dead man settings.

[k0s0ff]

I don't see anything exciting in reducing all the possible risks and difficulties for a long-term race. More likely to turn around, it will become even more boring. Something like achieved everything and there is nothing more to achieve. You can exclude random factors. You are suggesting that you avoid possible congestion when reshuffling resources.

I agree that over time, you start doing monotonous actions. But again, I say that in these monotonous actions, the player drives himself. I would also add that there is always something to do. In addition, new locations appear from time to time.

In order to do a variety and increasing replayability.

You need to add surprise.  For example, a limited number of locations are available for the First few tens or hundreds of days. Then the earthquake and random locations opened up. mine collapses in random order and also their accidental opening. emigration of animals so that they are not left at the location where you feel like a corral.

[Stone]

Yeah not to bring you down @Bulhi but as @k0s0ff says, if you make it easier it's actually less interesting. The booking thing sure is an original thought though!

If could be said that TLD starts out by forcing you to take risks (exciting) and evolves to inviting you to take risks (still exciting) but then that invite to risk/reward dies away. So reigniting that risk taking seems what's needed. 

 

[StillNomad]

I do agree that after n number of days, when you are fairly settled and have everything you need, the game does become slightly (very slightly, as there are still a lot of things to do) monotonous. But I dont think making it easy will help. If I were to picture myself in that harsh environment that Hinterland so thoughtfully created for us, I would think that despite the 'comforts' after being settled, there would still be a lot of things to do in order to survive for the longest possible time. Definitely 'quality of life' also becomes important and would result in creation of stockpiles and at a number of 'bases'. Maybe a feature that lets us 'clean up' a place to make it more 'home like' could be added. If I were in that situation, I would do quite a lot of things to not be psychologically bogged down, like putting up photos I find during scavenge trips or my own drawings of Great Bear locations (cartography feature can be used to draw vistas, not just maps), (the radio during auroras is a nice touch here) and so on.

There would be a lot more dangers than the game gives us. I can personally think of a number of places where a fall wouldn't necessarily kill, but at least hurt in a bad way, which could take time to heal and recover (not just a bandage + painkillers and we are good). This would be challenging despite the 'comforts' and realistic as well.  An avalanche is highly possible, a limb could fall on the player during a blizzard, tunnels caving in, infections from getting a cut while working with metal, cuts and bruises. This would make forming a base so important as one would need to bank on stockpiled supplies while being frugal with it at the same time. We could get lucky breaks once in a while too, such as wildlife not attacking every time they notice us (although not very often as it would ruin the immersion), instead just growling to be left alone and not running away scared like they do now (not just in pilgrim btw).

All in all, I say Hinterland is doing a phenomenal job with TLD and bringing in new stuff like maps or challenges as free DLCs. I also couldn't thank them enough for creating a survival game without zombies.

Edited November 17, 2020 by StillNomad
typos and grammar.

[Bulhi]

Thanks for all the replies,

I can see how many players long for a neverending risking and fight for survival. But you all must admit, that even on interloper, there is a certain break point in the game where you are forced to settle somewhere due to worsening weather, so it makes sense that the character would have a way to somehow adapt to the weather and the lifestyle that is forced upon him.. What I proposed is sort of addition to skills only harder to obtain and reflects of the fact that if you live in those conditions, you adapt.. Yes, it makes the game easier with those bonuses. But you cant make the game evenly hard in the beginning and at day 500, if you dont start changing the game world and its settings in some unnatural way.

As an example, the extreme weather on interloper makes it hard to move outside for extended period of time, but does that itself make the game harder? I dont think so. It only makes your life in those conditions boring - all you really do is hunt for food, make water, deal with cabin fever and fix your bearskin bedroll. Not really that hard to do.. if you stick to some general rules of survival/safety on day 500 on interloper difficulty. 🙂

I agree that together with these bonuses, some ultimate goals making you risk some more later in the game, could be introduced. Go ahead and toss some ideas, if you have any. 🙂

PS: I would love to see smoked fish introduced into the game.. 🙂

[ManicManiac]

I think we can risk or settle as much as we like, simply by exercising a little Player Choice.  I don't think we need to change the game for that.
As an example, I've made a personal challenge that adds many extra rules, provisos, and activities (all that serve to make life harder for my survivor).  The best part is that I didn't need to change the game for other players, in order to change the experience for myself.

Also, I really don't like the idea of adding things that only exist to make life easier for the player.  I don't want the game to get easier.
 

5 hours ago, Bulhi said:

the extreme weather on interloper makes it hard to move outside for extended period of time, but does that itself make the game harder?

Yes, I'd say it does.
If we have a more limited amount of time to hunt and gather resources... as in resources we need to tend to our character's needs.  Then by definition, the game is harder.

I think that's kind of the point of there being more extreme difficulty modes.  Part of that comes in the form of more extreme weather/temperature.

I think that if folks really want the game to be easier, then I recommend playing on an easier difficulty... or perhaps better still, use custom options to create your own ideal experience.

I like the game that Hinterland has made...
I think most of the extra activities you're talking about are better left as achievements (having no impact on the game), or just as personal goals a player can simply set for themselves as a Personal Challenge.

Edited November 18, 2020 by ManicManiac

[Guest rowan]

On 11/17/2020 at 10:31 AM, StillNomad said:

I do agree that after n number of days, when you are fairly settled and have everything you need, the game does become slightly (very slightly, as there are still a lot of things to do) monotonous. But I dont think making it easy will help. If I were to picture myself in that harsh environment that Hinterland so thoughtfully created for us, I would think that despite the 'comforts' after being settled, there would still be a lot of things to do in order to survive for the longest possible time. Definitely 'quality of life' also becomes important and would result in creation of stockpiles and at a number of 'bases'. Maybe a feature that lets us 'clean up' a place to make it more 'home like' could be added. If I were in that situation, I would do quite a lot of things to not be psychologically bogged down, like putting up photos I find during scavenge trips or my own drawings of Great Bear locations (cartography feature can be used to draw vistas, not just maps), (the radio during auroras is a nice touch here) and so on.

There would be a lot more dangers than the game gives us. I can personally think of a number of places where a fall wouldn't necessarily kill, but at least hurt in a bad way, which could take time to heal and recover (not just a bandage + painkillers and we are good). This would be challenging despite the 'comforts' and realistic as well.  An avalanche is highly possible, a limb could fall on the player during a blizzard, tunnels caving in, infections from getting a cut while working with metal, cuts and bruises. This would make forming a base so important as one would need to bank on stockpiled supplies while being frugal with it at the same time. We could get lucky breaks once in a while too, such as wildlife not attacking every time they notice us (although not very often as it would ruin the immersion), instead just growling to be left alone and not running away scared like they do now (not just in pilgrim btw).

All in all, I say Hinterland is doing a phenomenal job with TLD and bringing in new stuff like maps or challenges as free DLCs. I also couldn't thank them enough for creating a survival game without zombies.

I love these ideas. I’d personally prefer it if the game was simultaneously more dangerous but more rewarding of risk. I prefer wolves to be territorial but not zombies, so they’d rarely attack unless provoked but would be more than easy meat if they do. I’d prefer it if getting bitten or mauled required much longer and more gradual recovery (maybe you have a semi-permanent cap to your condition like frostbite but only for a week or two, maybe you have intermittent pain coming back, maybe you have a chance of your wound reopening and needing a second bandage applied, maybe you need to replace your bandage daily or clean your wound otherwise the risk of infection returns, etc). I’d love it if the TWM Summit loot was removed and instead, loot was rarer in all levels but much higher quality, like a guarantee that 1-2 expedition jackets or cowichan sweaters or rifles will spawn SOMEWHERE random on the map. I’d also love it if we could improve our bases more as the “end game”. I don’t want to be rescued, but I feel like my character would eventually, after literally exploring the whole island, realize that rescue isn’t coming and just buckle down to survive. At that point, let me make a firewood bin, a bearskin bedspread to increase the warmth of a bed, a rifle rack and deer antlers above the fireplace, patch the roof, hang a painting that I carried with me the whole way at the expense of other supplies, etc.