Craftable candles

[Kaisentlaia]

I know, has been asked so many times (by me as well) but now...

1. there is a model (just put a fat candle inside a can)
2. there is a lightning effect sorted out:
   
3. there are appropriate ingredients: recycled can, lantern fuel, cloth for a wick (or animal fat but that would be a new item so let's stick with fish oil)
4. there is a crafting system to make it happen

Please please let us have craftable candles! It would be amazing if they had some downsides (like being unmovable once lighted, requiring a match/torch to light, and going off at the slightest bit of wind) but upsides too like lasting much longer than a storm lantern, allowing us to read, craft and see during dark nights.

PRETTY PLEASE 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Kaisentlaia

[Guest kristaok]

I would love some Candles! ❤️ 

[Kean Valk]

This would be amazing! There are so many times when I'm just stuck inside with nothing to do if I don't wanna waste fire starting supplies. I think it makes a lot of sense and it would give cans another use too.

[deathbydanish]

2 hours ago, Kean Valk said:

This would be amazing! There are so many times when I'm just stuck inside with nothing to do if I don't wanna waste fire starting supplies. I think it makes a lot of sense and it would give cans another use too.

Yeah I was thinking it'd be an easy way to get a bigger fire going, like light a torch so you can use the torch to get a stove going.

[Kean Valk]

3 hours ago, deathbydanish said:

Yeah I was thinking it'd be an easy way to get a bigger fire going, like light a torch so you can use the torch to get a stove going.

Well you can already kinda do that, lighting a torch with a match can't fail and you can keep trying to light fires with the same lit torch

[deathbydanish]

15 hours ago, Kean Valk said:

Well you can already kinda do that, lighting a torch with a match can't fail and you can keep trying to light fires with the same lit torch

I mean to say keep a candle going so that you can just get near it with the torch and light it without sacrificing a match.

[Kean Valk]

6 hours ago, deathbydanish said:

I mean to say keep a candle going so that you can just get near it with the torch and light it without sacrificing a match.

That comes down to how long a candle would last then, if it is gonna burn for a few hours then go out or if it would last longer. Candles don't burn forever, and if you're gonna light a full fire then you don't need it. So that would only save a match if you had a candle lit already.

I just thought of another use too, you could use it to have light in places without stoves like the cabins in ML. But what if you could use it for heating up drinks? Not cooking food of course, but just holding a cup of   over the candle till it's warm?

[ManicManiac]

It's been a long discussed wish list item.  It would definitely be a nice touch for sure, but I'm good either way.

While it would always be nice to have more variety... we do already have many ways to light up the darkness.

[deathbydanish]

14 hours ago, Kean Valk said:

That comes down to how long a candle would last then, if it is gonna burn for a few hours then go out or if it would last longer. Candles don't burn forever, and if you're gonna light a full fire then you don't need it. So that would only save a match if you had a candle lit already.

I just thought of another use too, you could use it to have light in places without stoves like the cabins in ML. But what if you could use it for heating up drinks? Not cooking food of course, but just holding a cup of   over the candle till it's warm?

Yeah I'd say make it difficult to craft candles but give them a decent enough burn time. Those scented candles at least seem to give a good 8 hours of burn time. I've seen some ones crafted in a mason jar last for near 24 hours straight, so maybe we can just sacrifice a tin can to make one but make it very resource heavy to make.

[Moll]

Let it be various candle types for various burning rates. Both with tincan or not.

Canned candle can use wax more effectively, because wax is trapped in place by can (so it can burn for a much longer time). Normal can will dissolve and wax can be collected as blob for another candle.

Some canned version can also use lam oil so its basically imrpovised latern. but much less effective (30 % more oil consumption). but it generated heat wich is usefull for interiors without stoves, cuz you cannot create fireplace there. Some improvised can heater comes handy.

Items needed for a candles:

1. Wick. Can be crafted from a cloth. Conversion rate: 1 cloth -> 2 wicks.

2. Wax. Probably swapped for a animal fat. Can be collected from carcass, or when you cook a meat (similar mechanic as oil from cooked fish).

 

 

[ManicManiac]

Honestly folks, I'm not sure about all the "crafty" type stuff that's been put forth... instead of trying to devise some contrived crafting recipe, why not just let candles be a found item? (you know, like matches are)

Edited November 3, 2019 by ManicManiac

[Kean Valk]

1 hour ago, ManicManiac said:

It's been a long discussed wish list item.  It would definitely be a nice touch for sure, but I'm good either way.

While it would always be nice to have more variety... we do already have many ways to light up the darkness.

That's why i was thinking of giving it another use, like warming drinks for example. That way it could be a utility item as well, balanced by the cost of making it and it's limited use time. The warming up buff is really handy but not worth lighting a normal fire for, unless you were freezing. So every time you went to make it, you'd have to ask the 'famous' long dark question "Is this the best use of my resources?"

1 hour ago, deathbydanish said:

Yeah I'd say make it difficult to craft candles but give them a decent enough burn time. Those scented candles at least seem to give a good 8 hours of burn time. I've seen some ones crafted in a mason jar last for near 24 hours straight, so maybe we can just sacrifice a tin can to make one but make it very resource heavy to make.

Maybe not to difficult, but definitely not cheap either. I was thinking as a bridge between early game and mid game or calling it a mid game craft-able. It could be set up to need fire starting level 2 or 3 as a condition that needed to be met first, as a way to make the cost itself a bit lower.

25 minutes ago, Moll said:

Let it be various candle types for various burning rates. Both with tincan or not.

Canned candle can use wax more effectively, because wax is trapped in place by can (so it can burn for a much longer time). Normal can will dissolve and wax can be collected as blob for another candle.

Some canned version can also use lam oil so its basically imrpovised latern. but much less effective (30 % more oil consumption). but it generated heat wich is usefull for interiors without stoves, cuz you cannot create fireplace there. Some improvised can heater comes handy.

Items needed for a candles:

1. Wick. Can be crafted from a cloth. Conversion rate: 1 cloth -> 2 wicks.

2. Wax. Probably swapped for a animal fat. Can be collected from carcass, or when you cook a meat (similar mechanic as oil from cooked fish).

 

 

I would say that making the cans unusable for anything else would make some balancing sense (at least to me) and while it's a nice thought, for balance you probably shouldn't be able to re-collect the wax. At least not all of it, if you could then later down the line you could have a lot of candles

Metal channels heat well so that would help the oil candle in making some heat too.

 I like that idea! Getting it off of cooking meat would make a bit more sense, maybe you would need a pot to collect it too.

4 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

Honestly folks, I'm not sure about all the "crafty" type stuff that's been put forth... instead of trying to devise some contrived crafting recipe, why not just let candles be a found item? (you know, like matches are.

While that could work (and I get where you are coming from) I don't think it's the best way to go about it. Now I'm by no means a game dev, so I really don't have much ground to stand on here. But adding it like that I feel would effect spawns negatively. If it spawned kinda like cans did (so just where you'd expect them to be) then there would just be to many and the importance of having found one would go down. But if it spawned like matches, (I find most people keep the candles near matches if they use the candle, although that could just be me) then it could sometimes replace a match that you really need. Again I'm not a game dev nor a programmer, but it's what I am worrying about as a player.

[Kaisentlaia]

I agree with almost everything @Kean Valk said.

11 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

While it would always be nice to have more variety... we do already have many ways to light up the darkness.

That's true but all the current options feel too expensive to me. Most of the times I wait until morning to craft/read/repair because I find it too wasteful to light a fire just for that (I should at least cook something or make water meanwhile, but sometimes I just want to focus on the task), not to mention the precious precious lantern oil... that's something that should be used for exploring, not certainly for sewing. 😂

I know I could just go fishing, pick up a bunch of fish oil and then use the lantern for night-long crafting sessions but it just feels so wrong to me. Candles would be very atmospheric and I feel like a dedicated light source for indoor activities is currently missing.

(by playing the early alpha version from the time capsule I realized that the more variety the easier the game gets, the first version was brutal! But since we're already there, I see no harm in the addition of another small bit of variety like candles)

[Moll]

The easy way is to create one model of candle, probably canned (you avoid problem with need of changing candle shape, when its burning). And this candle can be found in world, or be crafted (tin can + animal fat + 1 cloth). Candle cannot work in windy conditions so its mostly suitable for interiors.

Like latern you can add more fat to increase duration. When burned out you stay with empty candle cup (can be crafted as candle, but without a animal fat). Candle has duration timer, like fire place and its condition marks condition of cup, it decreases when candle is used. When cup's condition hits 0 %, candle cannot be used anymore or repaired and it will vanish.

[ManicManiac]

12 hours ago, Kaisentlaia said:

I see no harm in the addition of another small bit of variety like candles

There's no harm in it all.  As I said, I think it would be a nice touch.
I just also think the game is good either way.  You mention the other methods for light feel too expensive... but that's a player choice.  To me, lantern fuel is fairly cheap and very renewable, so I don't have any qualms about sparking the lantern a little if I need to get my bearings or burning it a little bit to navigate and search a dark area.  Unlike torches (which are easy enough to get as well), the lantern doesn't use precious matches. 

My other point of view is that I'm not sure how much I like the idea of making it a crafted item... mainly because it would require Hinterland to add even more to the game just to facilitate it (i.e. animal fats, rendering tallows, breaking down cloth to wick...).  It seems easier (since most candles nowadays are made of paraffin wax - processed from petroleum) to have candles just appear as a found item like other manufactured items in the game. 

Either way, be it candles or torches... it would still use up precious matches, so there is cost no mater what.  I figure if a person would use a match to light a candle, they may as well just use a torch since it's already in the game, and generally serves the same purpose.

Edited November 4, 2019 by ManicManiac

[Moll]

Then maybe add way to craft simple can latern. When not candles, craftable portable indoor light source can be very handy too. And no need for a bunch of a new items, just use existing cans, scrap and cloth. Only model of craftable can "latern" is needed.

 

Long term candles can be excellent way to keep fire. It comes handy when you run out of matches and no magnifying glass around.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Moll

[Kean Valk]

I had said everything I could think of on the topic, but I've seen enough discussions between my friends to know where this is going. So think I'll step back in.

I'd like to start off by saying that the thread was made because Kaisentlaia brought up that, although candles have been long since wanted by several members of the community, it seems like all of the necessary game design and mechanics have already been added. The model has been added, There is a lightning effect made, and the crafting system to make it all happen. Therefore by that logic, it wouldn't be too hard to give us a crafting recipe and just reuse what's here already.

To correct part of what has been going back and forth for a bit (that I admit to have been a part of) ManicManiac, the candle is the only thing that needs to be added.

On 10/30/2019 at 2:10 AM, Kaisentlaia said:

there are appropriate ingredients: recycled can, lantern fuel, cloth for a wick (or animal fat but that would be a new item so let's stick with fish oil)

A can to hold it, the fuel in the form of our beloved lantern oil, and a cloth for a wick. Note that we are not saying to make wicks with cloth, but just to use the cloth. Theoretically, nothing else needs to be made besides the crafting recipe itself.

Personally I love the idea of having candles, my main reason for liking the idea is, however, more for what it could do to change the atmosphere. I see where Moll, Kaisentlaia, and deathbydanish are coming from with there ideas. They all shared wonderful ideas that, while maybe needing some balancing here and there, would be great additions to the candle idea itself. (and a nice touch to the game world) I do however, also see where you are coming from. It's not like you are in any way trying to put the ideas down, with over 1,000 posts I have no doubt that you are a kind member of the community. With the three posts you have written here you brought up valid points, it is all down to player choice.(for the most part) You were just worried about us giving the devs a task that, while not meaningless, is a bit unnecessary. 

The only thing I have left to bring up is:

12 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

Either way, be it candles or torches... it would still use up precious matches, so there is cost no mater what.  I figure if a person would use a match to light a candle, they may as well just use a torch since it's already in the game, and generally serves the same purpose.

You are right, it would take something already lit to light the candles. But I had a thought about that, let's say that a candle lasts 24 hours and there is no way to lengthen that.

If you lit a fire in a stove, did whatever you needed that fire for in 4 hours and went to sleep. But before you went to sleep you took a lit torch out of the fire and lit the candle. Then, you sleep for 8 hours. You get up and head out, let's say you are gone either hunting, fishing or coming and going stockpiling firewood for 12 hours before you are getting too tired and need to head back. So you get home, let's say an hour later. (maybe you had to avoid a wolf) It's time to light your nightly fire to cook some food and make some water.(or tea if you need it.) You pull out a torch and light it with the candle that's still burning for 3 more hours, get your fire going in a try or 2 with the torch and boom! 1 match for 2 days without burning firewood on keeping the fire going that whole time. Repeatable for however many candles you have.

[Guest kristaok]

I agree with @ManicManiac that perhaps it would be easier to just have Candles as findable objects instead of craftable ones. 

[Kaisentlaia]

Guys this turned out to be such an interesting conversation! Thank you all for your contrbutions 

@ManicManiac regarding match usage, you're right there. I must have played too much 4DON/Story Mode lately, because I was literally swimming in matches and didn't consider how rare they can be in Interloper/custom.   You're right that it's a matter of choice, but I feel like the only really long lasting lighting choice at the moment is a fire (torches burn out quickly and I never timed a full lantern but I doubt that could last a whole night), that's why I would like a more efficient option. 

Match usage could be easily optimized tho even on harder difficulties: light a fire, cook/make water, pull a torch, use it to light your candle and then craft/read/repair away until you're exhausted, without having to waste another match or wood.

15 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

My other point of view is that I'm not sure how much I like the idea of making it a crafted item... mainly because it would require Hinterland to add even more to the game just to facilitate it (i.e. animal fats, rendering tallows, breaking down cloth to wick...).  It seems easier (since most candles nowadays are made of paraffin wax - processed from petroleum) to have candles just appear as a found item like other manufactured items in the game. 

2 hours ago, Kean Valk said:

I'd like to start off by saying that the thread was made because Kaisentlaia brought up that, although candles have been long since wanted by several members of the community, it seems like all of the necessary game design and mechanics have already been added. The model has been added, There is a lightning effect made, and the crafting system to make it all happen. Therefore by that logic, it wouldn't be too hard to give us a crafting recipe and just reuse what's here already.

A can to hold it, the fuel in the form of our beloved lantern oil, and a cloth for a wick. Note that we are not saying to make wicks with cloth, but just to use the cloth. Theoretically, nothing else needs to be made besides the crafting recipe itself.

That's exactly what I meant @Kean Valk, thank you (and by the way, I love your idea of using a long lasting candle to relight a fire). I did suggest candles before but it would have been a daunting task for the devs at the time. Right now it could be possible to craft a makeshift candle using items and a model (with a few modifications) already present in the game and the existing crafting system and mechanics.

That said, ready-made candles would be a nice touch as well, but I picture them being as rare as match boxes and that could be vexing on some experience modes with low loot. A craftable candle could light up even an Interloper's nights, given enough fishing (if it was made with lantern fuel).

I guess that what I'd like to see is a fuel-effective light source that would last a long time with little fuel, with some drawbacks to balance it like for example being unmovable once lit and requiring a way to light it up as ManicManic correctly pointed out. It would not replace the torch or storm lantern, but offer a different option to satisfy different needs.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Kaisentlaia

[ManicManiac]

@Kaisentlaia
Fair enough

[JabotiPOWER]

Really liked this ideia, hope they add a uptade with new lightning methods.