suggestion Birch oil

[Mroz4k]

Birch Oil

I searched, noone seems to have suggested this before, so here goes:

The Birch bark contains lots of oils, and because of this, Birch bark is a wonderful tinder item (and should honestly give bonus for fire starting, +5% sounds fair, but that is a different suggestion).

One of the earliest lantern fuels ever used was this black oil, which can be obtained by "cooking" certain barks. And out of all the barks, the birch bark works the best.

Found this tutorial on YouTube.

 

Now, to avoid some difficult programming or need for new HUDs etc, I think the campfire should have an option to "cook" something that is called "Birch oil". It would take 5 birch barks, it would cook for 1 hour, and it would produce 3dcl of lantern fuel. (Additionally, it could only produce 2,5dcl if 3 seems too much)

Pros:

easily gained materials

easily obtained lantern fuel

Cons:

1 hour burn time on fire

exhaustion/starvation/dehydration associated with the 1 hour cooking.

 

Any suggestions?

 

 

[starfighter441]

Interesting, but apparently we get a certain amount of lantern oil from fish, so I don't know if it will fly.

 

[Thrasador]

This made me think of "wood gas."

Apparently you can heat up(not burn...lower temperature) any charcoal or wood in a closed system and attempt to collect "wood gas" from it. I saw it on a short lived survival reality show called "The Colony." They had a smart old dude who was like the group's "mad scientist," who knew how to slap together water purification systems, wood gas generators, and even make soap out of spare junk and crap they could salvage. It was a pretty interesting concept...a post apocalyptic reality TV show, lol.

So is wood gas...

[starfighter441]

19 minutes ago, Thrasador said:

This made me think of "wood gas."

Apparently you can heat up(not burn...lower temperature) any charcoal or wood in a closed system and attempt to collect "wood gas" from it. I saw it on a short lived survival reality show called "The Colony." They had a smart old dude who was like the group's "mad scientist," who knew how to slap together water purification systems, wood gas generators, and even make soap out of spare junk and crap they could salvage. It was a pretty interesting concept...a post apocalyptic reality TV show, lol.

So is wood gas...

They used this system to run cars during the Second World War in France and Sweden.

[Thrasador]

20 minutes ago, starfighter441 said:

They used this system to run cars during the Second World War in France and Sweden.

Yep, and FEMA posted a guide in 1989 on how to build your own during a disaster or fuel shortage...

Also, check out this dude making torches out of stuff we already have in the game....

 

[Melchior]

Please, I can do one better:

Kerosene

Invented by this guy (A Canadian!)

Originally MANUFACTURED by retort-distillation from COAL.

Therefore - if you want to do it "Authentically": if Lamp-Oil IS Kerosene, then it should be made in this same way.

Otherwise I think the mystery fuel isn't kerosene but some kind of organic oil, why else would it be a byproduct of fish frying?!

Also the lantern isn't very gas-mantle lantern looking, either.

[Piers Arkan]

On 7/27/2017 at 1:06 PM, Thrasador said:

This made me think of "wood gas."

Apparently you can heat up(not burn...lower temperature) any charcoal or wood in a closed system and attempt to collect "wood gas" from it. I saw it on a short lived survival reality show called "The Colony." They had a smart old dude who was like the group's "mad scientist," who knew how to slap together water purification systems, wood gas generators, and even make soap out of spare junk and crap they could salvage. It was a pretty interesting concept...a post apocalyptic reality TV show, lol.

So is wood gas...

I actually just last night popped open my dad's old US army survival manual and noticed how simple it is to make soap, some lye from ashes and fat with some boiling and a few extra process steps!

 

As to the topic, I do find it interesting, and I think it would be cool as an alternative to the animal based oil gathering from fish. I also think that this can lead into a larger topic of the usefulness of tinder past fire starting level 3. This provides one solution for birch bark. 

[Melchior]

6 minutes ago, Piers Arkan said:

I also think that this can lead into a larger topic of the usefulness of tinder past fire starting level 3. This provides one solution for birch bark. 

Indeed - what I suggested would be more advanced than this - requiring actual equipment (crude) built from scrap and moxy (and engineering). Birch bark baking seems a less sophisticated way to accomplish the same goal.

Also something to do with the heaps AND HEAPS of the stuff I have, since tinder isn't important anymore.

[Piers Arkan]

2 minutes ago, Melchior said:

Indeed - what I suggested would be more advanced than this - requiring actual equipment (crude) built from scrap and moxy (and engineering). Birch bark baking seems a less sophisticated way to accomplish the same goal.

Also something to do with the heaps AND HEAPS of the stuff I have, since tinder isn't important anymore.

I have like 5 kilograms of tinders. No idea what to do with them. Wish they boosted fire starting chance. 

[Thrasador]

16 minutes ago, Piers Arkan said:

I have like 5 kilograms of tinders. No idea what to do with them. Wish they boosted fire starting chance. 

Well I did make the suggestion for as much in the Wish List area.  I would like to see tinder give a small bonus when used after level 3 fire starting, when you no longer "need" tinder....most people feel it makes some sense...

[Piers Arkan]

Just now, Thrasador said:

Well I did make the suggestion for as much in the Wish List area.  I would like to see tinder give a small bonus when used after level 3 fire starting, when you no longer "need" tinder....most people feel it makes some sense...

I imagine that damn near everything under the cruel sun has been suggested, the game has been in development for quite a few years. Still, never hurts to bring the ideas forward every so often to churn them again. I am kind of surprised they don't actually give them a use like that already. Who knows, maybe August 1st will see massive gameplay changes. 

[Thrasador]

3 minutes ago, Piers Arkan said:

I imagine that damn near everything under the cruel sun has been suggested, the game has been in development for quite a few years. Still, never hurts to bring the ideas forward every so often to churn them again. I am kind of surprised they don't actually give them a use like that already. Who knows, maybe August 1st will see massive gameplay changes. 

Yep, they pretty much all have been, but I hadn't seen that suggestion yet so I went for it....

[Mroz4k]

@Melchior

You have any idea how difficult it is to create Kerosene? It would be nigh impossible to create in a survival situation. Whereas birch bark oil is relatively easy to create, as proven by the tutorial on YouTube. To create Kerosene, you would first need to process the coal into crude oil, and then separate it into oil derivates, after which you could finally create Kerosene. For all that, you would need industrial facility, or at least pretty sophisticated lab equipment to do it on the smaller scale. 
To think you would build a crude distillery to create that in the Long Dark circumstances is a pipe-dream.

In Long Dark, the "lantern fuel" is any combustible liquid substance that can be used as a lantern fuel (the older Storm lanterns can be lit up with a lot of alternate things, birch bark is one of them.) So Kerosene, petroleum, gas, animal fat oil, whatever can be combustible. I think they called it "kerosene" to avoid the confusion as to what "liquid" is inside.
@Thrasador
I remember that show. Too bad it was so scripted, but still interesting show. What I think would make more sense than wood gas is wood alcohol. Would be more useful since you can't really carry around gas. In either case, it would require some distillery which once again, don't seem very realizable in The Long Dark, unless we got some "scripted distilleries" in the world, for example in the Farmstead in FM, or barn in PV.

@everyone

Like I already said, there is a difference to using tinder and not using one if you have level 3 fire making skill already. They do not increase your chance to create a fire, but if you use tinder, the "fire starting" process is somewhat shorter, and that also means you will have more "burn time" on your fire after its finished. I would, however, like it if certain tinders increased the fire making chance.

[Melchior]

On 7/29/2017 at 10:13 AM, Mroz4k said:

@Melchior

You have any idea how difficult it is to create Kerosene? It would be nigh impossible to create in a survival situation. Whereas birch bark oil is relatively easy to create, as proven by the tutorial on YouTube. To create Kerosene, you would first need to process the coal into crude oil, and then separate it into oil derivates, after which you could finally create Kerosene. For all that, you would need industrial facility, or at least pretty sophisticated lab equipment to do it on the smaller scale. 
To think you would build a crude distillery to create that in the Long Dark circumstances is a pipe-dream.

Are we? In a survival situation ?

At say 100+ Days in - its more of a long term survival. Also indeed since most of the critical tools and equipment are found - the distiller would be too (and like a forge - probably in an appropriate location), may not be complete - and it would require its OWN maintenance, ect... Speculation is fun isn't it?

 

[Mroz4k]

Long term survival, where? You never have time for that - you still need to keep going back to get the essentials. Long term survival comes after all the essentials have been taken care of permanently, and is about improving a quality of life. Which is something you are proposing, in a way... but if you take a look at the TLD, it is not meant to go that way. TLD has finite resources. It is not meant to be going on forever. Plants don't regrow, loot does not reappear. 

Additionally, you are missing a key ingredient - an oil shale. And please do us all a favour and don't suggest it should be added into the game - most people have no idea something called "oil shale" even exists, let alone would be able to identify it in terrain. Not to mention average Joe would have zero idea how the process of kerosene creation goes. I have some experience in the lab and I wouldn't dare to say I could do it. Even if there was a book how to do it, most people would lack the chemistry know-how to make it work, more so some bush pilot which is what the character is supposed to be.

I am talking about a simple campfire recipe for a homemade lamp oil simple people make out of materials that are already readily in the game, you would want to create industrial quality oil on a distillery out of ingredients that are not in the game, using know-how only available to a decent chemist. Realistic survivalist in that situation would be trying to think of another way to get more food or preserve what he has, not about starting a chemistry class. The only "distillery" that would ever cross their mind is a distillery to make moonshine.

But that's a pointless argument because from what I saw of your other opinions, I have a pretty clear idea where you would steer the game if you could. Not saying I don't respect your opinion, but your ideas are rather far fetched in comparison to the theme of the game.

Golden rule of survival is "achieve your ends in the simplest manner you can, save your energy for when you need it"

[Mroz4k]

I am bringing this topic back to life, because after Wintermute launched off, we have been joined by a lot of new people, and I was hoping to get more feedback on this. 
I believe the game needs an alternative method of gathering lantern fuel, and birch bark could have a secondary use besides just a tinder. Lantern fuel is one of the several "luxury" items of the TLD - it is not neccesary for survival, but it can make it a lot less difficult, especially when it comes to mine explorations.

[godhelpme89]

Just curious why lamp oil needs an alternate way to get it. Is for maps that don't have much fishing?

[Mroz4k]

1 minute ago, godhelpme89 said:

Just curious why lamp oil needs an alternate way to get it. Is for maps that don't have much fishing?

Fishing does not provide a whole lot of lantern oil (from 0,01 to 0,05l from small fishes, and around 0,25l from the really big ones), and lantern oil is an amazing resource. First of all, it is neccesary for storm lanterns which provide the best light source in the game, one which can work in windy conditions, but one which also uses up quite a lot of the fuel when burning. Having access to another fuel reserve means you can afford to use your storm lantern more. 

Additionally, lantern fuel can be used as a substitute to accelerants. This is extremely useful when trying to raise one´s firemaking skill, or in emergencies, and especially in the end-games when there is a lack of fire starting materials. 

And finally, it makes birch bark more useful.

[CitrinePeridot]

I may have cheated on my voting, but, in keeping with what you typed out, I chose the 2,5 option. I think this is a very useful idea. Yes, we also get some from fish, but why not have alternative resources that are, in fact, available at our disposal as well. Less limiting and more to learn. Thank you.