revolver thoughts

[bekkar]

referring to the roadmap from hinterland i wanna know what are your thoughts about the revolver. first i have to say i really love the idea of it because it could be a nice short distance defense. also it would be look awesome when walking around with the revolver.

[Wastelander]

Hallo, Landsmann/frau und willkommen im Forum! Since the revolver is on the roadmap, I'd think it could be a short-range defense weapon as you stated. I hope the rifle range gets upped though, because otherwise the revolver makes no sense unless its rate of fire is unnaturally high.

[alone sniper]

Hi bekkar !
i like your idea! 
actually they should put new type of ammo. 

[Wastelander]

Just now, alone sniper said:

Hi bekkar !
i like your idea! 
actually they should put new type of ammo. 

I guess that'll happen. I just hope they won't change the overall amout of firearms and ammunition, just the types. Makes for some cool gameplay - "Hey, I've got 20 revolver rounds... I only have a hunting rifle though, fml"

[alone sniper]

1 minute ago, Wastelander said:

I guess that'll happen. I just hope they won't change the overall amout of firearms and ammunition, just the types. Makes for some cool gameplay - "Hey, I've got 20 revolver rounds... I only have a hunting rifle though, fml"

 you're right.
can't wait for NPCs.  if you can trade with them it will be great. give them 10 Kg meat and they give you 100 bullet.kidding!!!

[Wastelander]

Just now, alone sniper said:

 you're right.
can't wait for NPCs.  if you can trade with them it will be great. give them 10 Kg meat and they give you 100 bullet.kidding!!!

While you said you were kidding, you said something important about any sort of barter system! I mentioned to @Docterrok my proposal of NPC-AI, simply governed by a few values in percentage values:

• Ranged skill
• Melee skill
• Alertness (how easily they spot you)
• Territoriality (how easily they freak out when you're trespassing)
• Courage (how hard it is to scare them off)

But yeah, I think at least for barter-capable NPCs a Barter skill should be added which directly affects how much you can screw 'em over. College student with low real-life experience? You can rip that guy straight off. Seasoned hunter? You've gotta give him some real good stuff before he gives you ammo!

[alone sniper]

Just now, Wastelander said:

While you said you were kidding, you said something important about any sort of barter system! I mentioned to @Docterrok my proposal of NPC-AI, simply governed by a few values in percentage values:

• Ranged skill
• Melee skill
• Alertness (how easily they spot you)
• Territoriality (how easily they freak out when you're trespassing)
• Courage (how hard it is to scare them off)

But yeah, I think at least for barter-capable NPCs a Barter skill should be added which directly affects how much you can screw 'em over. College student with low real-life experience? You can rip that guy straight off. Seasoned hunter? You've gotta give him some real good stuff before he gives you ammo!

I wanted to create topic about trading and worthiness of thing. but i thought it still to early to do it. 
i like your idea about barter skill. 
but one question: How should be barter system?

should it be like This war of mine or something like S.T.A.L.K.E.R ?

[Wastelander]

Definitely a mix of those - both are well crafted, well thought out and, while still not perfect, a good basis to work with. Last post I'm gonna make on this here since this probably counts as derailing the thread.

[alone sniper]

2 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

Definitely a mix of those - both are well crafted, well thought out and, while still not perfect, a good basis to work with. Last post I'm gonna make on this here since this probably counts as derailing the thread.

yes , you're right. 
So do you think revolver should be more powerful than rifle?

[Wastelander]

1 minute ago, alone sniper said:

yes , you're right. 
So do you think revolver should be more powerful than rifle?

Not in terms of stopping power, but definitely in terms of firing rate - than again, I'm not a gun owner, so if anyone who does own guns wishes to crrect me, I'm all for it - half of the reason I come here is to learn.

[miah999]

33 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

Not in terms of stopping power, but definitely in terms of firing rate - than again, I'm not a gun owner, so if anyone who does own guns wishes to crrect me, I'm all for it - half of the reason I come here is to learn.

Well how powerful the "revolver is would be based on it's caliber. Revolver is a pretty generic term for a single type of handgun (and a few rifles), the term itself does no really tell you how powerful the gun would be. Revolvers are available in calibers ranging from .22 short which are minute near impotent weapons, to the massive kill a bear with one bullet 500 magnum. So it will be up to Hinterland to decide what kind of revolver to make.

[Gradientpixel]

The rifle will (or rather should) be a lot more powerful than the revolver. The .303 is almost as big as the 30-06 which packs a punch and I think it would be neat to put in recoil for the player first time shooting (granted haven't shot the rifle yet...) and the more you shoot the better control over the recoil. I never shot a .303 IRL so not sure to what extent the kick would be but maybe if someone was crazy and wanted to blow throw a ton of rounds or trying to deter an animal attack with the rifle it could bruise the shoulder real good. 

To add a bit here, if it is not in the game, need to have the noise ring of when a gun is shot. These things are very loud and you will definitely have some ringing at the minimum without ear protection.

[Boston123]

The revolver is probably going to be a .38 Special. .38 Special is the most common revolver caliber in the world, and is beloved for its accuracy and manageable recoil. Besides, a .38S revolver was in the early pre-alpha gameplay footage.

.38 Special is capable of taking down wolves with well-placed shots, and is lightweight and easy to carry.

The whole "point" of a revolver/handgun is something reasonably powerful that can be carried with greater ease than a rifle. .38S-chambered revolvers are good for this, as they are lightweight and slim. My uncle knows an Alaskan bushpilot that has a .38 Special revolver strapped to the side of his seat. Whenever he lands, he straps it to his leg and "forgets" it is there, something that can't be done with larger revolvers, which are heavy and larger-framed.

Also of note: even super-large revolvers like .44 Magnum and .500 magnum will not necessarily take out a charging bear. Bear are notable for being tough, and for having thick bones that regularly deflect rifle rounds. The bush pilot prefers the smaller revolver for ease-of-carry, and because not having a hand-cannon on his hip makes him a bit more cognizant of danger..

Not to mention that .38S is, contrary to "common knowledge", perfectly usable as a self-defense round vs humans. Shot placement is key.

[alone sniper]

6 minutes ago, Boston123 said:

The revolver is probably going to be a .38 Special. .38 Special is the most common revolver caliber in the world, and is beloved for its accuracy and manageable recoil. Besides, a .38S revolver was in the early pre-alpha gameplay footage.

.38 Special is capable of taking down wolves with well-placed shots, and is lightweight and easy to carry.

The whole "point" of a revolver/handgun is something reasonably powerful that can be carried with greater ease than a rifle. .38S-chambered revolvers are good for this, as they are lightweight and slim. My uncle knows an Alaskan bushpilot that has a .38 Special revolver strapped to the side of his seat. Whenever he lands, he straps it to his leg and "forgets" it is there, something that can't be done with larger revolvers, which are heavy and larger-framed.

Also of note: even super-large revolvers like .44 Magnum and .500 magnum will not necessarily take out a charging bear. Bear are notable for being tough, and for having thick bones that regularly deflect rifle rounds. The bush pilot prefers the smaller revolver for ease-of-carry, and because not having a hand-cannon on his hip makes him a bit more cognizant of danger..

Not to mention that .38S is, contrary to "common knowledge", perfectly usable as a self-defense round vs humans. Shot placement is key.

+1. 
but still worried about ammo.

[Rusty_Old_F250]

2 hours ago, Gradientpixel said:

The rifle will (or rather should) be a lot more powerful than the revolver. The .303 is almost as big as the 30-06 which packs a punch and I think it would be neat to put in recoil for the player first time shooting (granted haven't shot the rifle yet...) and the more you shoot the better control over the recoil. I never shot a .303 IRL so not sure to what extent the kick would be but maybe if someone was crazy and wanted to blow throw a ton of rounds or trying to deter an animal attack with the rifle it could bruise the shoulder real good. 

To add a bit here, if it is not in the game, need to have the noise ring of when a gun is shot. These things are very loud and you will definitely have some ringing at the minimum without ear protection.

 

To my (rather limited) experience, a 30-06 and .303 are darn near identical in terms of performance/behavior. As far as beating up your shoulder, it comes down to the recoil pad. A good pad makes a WORLD of difference. 

And when you shoot the rifle (in game), everything goes quiet for a second and you get a ringing sound effect. Especially indoors...

Sam

[Gradientpixel]

4 hours ago, Rusty_Old_F250 said:

To my (rather limited) experience, a 30-06 and .303 are darn near identical in terms of performance/behavior. As far as beating up your shoulder, it comes down to the recoil pad. A good pad makes a WORLD of difference. 

And when you shoot the rifle (in game), everything goes quiet for a second and you get a ringing sound effect. Especially indoors...

Sam

Very true on the recoil pads. Also the weight of the stock plays some part too however in this case with the .303 being all wood the weight should be good enough to reduce recoil. For hunting rifle I have a 7mm Rem Mag and recently my father got him a 30-06. Weird but his kicks harder than mine, however his gun is rather very light and mine is heavier.

With that said, I would not want to see a whole lot of guns developed for the game. It would ruin the entire feel. At tops two but if another, I would do a single shot break down 12 ga. or similar. For just the fun experience it would be neat to have a classic black-powder rifle where you had to find a lot more to get a shot off (maybe use it instead of the .303 in an extreme difficulty).

Hopefully I am not derailing the thread here...

[bekkar]

referring to my first post with the pictures in it i just found out that a revolver this size should weight 19.5 oz which are 0.55 kg. can this be true? is it so light?

edit: just found a video of this revolver. it looks so awesome. i need it ingame, right now.

[alone sniper]

it is light. but its recoil is heavy! 

[Gradientpixel]

 

40 minutes ago, bekkar said:

referring to my first post with the pictures in it i just found out that a revolver this size should weight 19.5 oz which are 0.55 kg. can this be true? is it so light?

edit: just found a video of this revolver. it looks so awesome. i need it ingame, right now.

Yep! I used to actually carry for my permit a .38s S&W airweight J-frame model which weighs 15 oz unloaded. Since then I have switched to a subcompact 9 mm weighing 12 oz. But back to the S&W you actually share, here are the specs below in the link.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765793_-1_757779_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

[bekkar]

Just now, Gradientpixel said:

Yep, that is accurate. I use to carry a .38 special J frame from S&W and it was the air weight model at around 15 oz. however this would be unloaded weight.

thanks for the accurate information. so what does a bullet weight? i'm very curious about it and couldn't find that info at your linked webpage. also you are experienced with that gun. some people, and also i like the idea, suggested that you will hear a peep when not protected by any ear protection. can you also confirm this?

[Wastelander]

31 minutes ago, Gradientpixel said:

 

Yep! I used to actually carry for my permit a .38s S&W airweight J-frame model which weighs 15 oz unloaded. Since then I have switched to a subcompact 9 mm weighing 12 oz. But back to the S&W you actually share, here are the specs below in the link.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765793_-1_757779_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

Why can't we get cool stuff like this in Germany?

26 minutes ago, bekkar said:

thanks for the accurate information. so what does a bullet weight? i'm very curious about it and couldn't find that info at your linked webpage. also you are experienced with that gun. some people, and also i like the idea, suggested that you will hear a peep when not protected by any ear protection. can you also confirm this?

If you fire a rifle indoors (happened to me on accident quite a few times, beer and TLD are not a good combination) you definitely get a ring. Outside, I haven't encountered this yet but this may be due to my cheap headphones.

[Gradientpixel]

1 hour ago, bekkar said:

thanks for the accurate information. so what does a bullet weight? i'm very curious about it and couldn't find that info at your linked webpage. also you are experienced with that gun. some people, and also i like the idea, suggested that you will hear a peep when not protected by any ear protection. can you also confirm this?

Not a problem.  For the weight of the bullet it is measured in grains which can vary according to the actual bullet itself (such as FMJ, hollow point, etc.). For this game I would just expect FMJ bullets and from a quick glance looks like they weigh in between 110 to 158 grains ( .25 to .36 oz) per bullet.

I am not heavily experienced with the gun, however if there is any questions I can try to answer. I did use it to take my gun permit class and the guy beside me asked what the heck I was shooting because it was so loud even with ear protection lol. Outside of that I shot it a handful of times. These guns vary a bit but the barrel length from mine was very short which means accuracy only goes to around 8 yrds or so. One thing to note with a revolver in general is that they may have a reputation of never having malfunctions but they still can granted less so than a semi-auto. One such is where the cylinder jams and will not rotate. 

[Wastelander]

Just now, Gradientpixel said:

Not a problem.  For the weight of the bullet it is measured in grains which carry vary according to the actual bullet itself (such as FMJ, hollow point, etc.). For this game I would just expect FMJ bullets and from a quick glance looks like they weigh in between 110 to 158 grains ( .25 to .36 oz) per bullet.

I am not heavily experienced with the gun, however if there is any questions I can try to answer. I did use it to take my gun permit class and the guy beside me asked what the heck I was shooting because it was so loud even with ear protection lol. Outside of that I shot it a handful of times. These guns vary a bit but the barrel length from mine was very short which means accuracy only goes to around 8 yrds or so. One thing to note with a revolver in general is that they may have a reputation of never having malfunctions but they still can granted less so than a semi-auto. One such is where the cylinder jams and will not rotate. 

Just for us Europeans, I have taken the liberty of translating these weights into metric units for better understanding:

110-158 grains translates to 7,12 -10,23 grams.

Btw, is this the weight of the entire bullet or just the projectile?

[Gradientpixel]

17 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

Just for us Europeans, I have taken the liberty of translating these weights into metric units for better understanding:

110-158 grains translates to 7,12 -10,23 grams.

Btw, is this the weight of the entire bullet or just the projectile?

Grains are only the weight of the projectile. 

I know this would make a difference for a loaded cartridge where in specific with .38 special there is also what is called +P which has more powder in the case than just a regular .38 special. 

[Wastelander]

Just now, Gradientpixel said:

Grains are only the weight of the projectile. 

I know this would make a difference for a loaded cartridge where in specific with .38 special there is also what is called +P which has more powder in the case than just a regular .38 special. 

That weight seems like it can add up pretty quickly. Glad Hinterland decided to give ammunition weight!