Wetting the whetstone!

[Amazombie]

I think the stone should last longer, but be very rare. maybe only one or 2 in all three maps. I"d love to see things more rare , but more long lasting .

I agree with the others about forcing us to go to DP. At least if we are going to have to go there , give us some books to find that increase our skill or something so that the tools we craft and not so low quality. IMHO Once you get to the point you have no more axes and knives you have to go there and at the rate they degrade and the risk of getting caught in weather, whats the point leaving?

First of all nobody will wait until the last minute to go to DP for forging, you have to plan ahead. Me personally my first priority is to get myself to trappers as quick as I can then once there try to hunt and craft some clothes not all but some and go to costal and then DP for collecting tools and forging arrowheads but if heavy storms hit or I am attacked too much by wolves I wait it out and try to make the next day. What most of the people don't understand in this game is the time there is no rush in fact the more you rush the harder it gets you get surprised by the weather by wolves ect. Go slow take only what you need leave everything else you will double back latter. My point is you can have forged tools way ahead of time before you run out of whet stone and original tools in general you just have to make the effort. In my last gameplay I even survived a bear attack in costal, barely but I survived and continued to DP again with the usual routine. Also nobody is forcing you to go to DP you could always use the hacksaw to harvest corpses the arrows you could find everywhere where is an archery target when they broke recycle them so DP just adds to the survival flavor it is not necessary at all however if you decide to adventure there be prepared have some meat on you lots of torches so you could chain them dropping one on the ground and lighting up the new one also the wolves will never cross a burning torch on the ground and you could scare it away with the one in your hand so yea I see no problem here even on stalker mode you just have to be prepared as in any other game, cheers

the hell are you talking about? lol

The point is they are forcing us to go there it doesnt matter when or how fast we go there. Hacksaw to harvest corpses the arrows where archery targets? Chain dropping torches?

I've seen a few of your post now, and I thought you just might have had bad english, but now i'm thinking either

1. You're probably just a troll

2. Are just an idiot

Because you have no idea what you're talking about and you're replys dont make sense. Sorry, I dont say those things lightly, but dont comment if you have no idea what you're talking about.

[vancopower]

the hell are you talking about? lol

The point is they are forcing us to go there it doesnt matter when or how fast we go there. Hacksaw to harvest corpses the arrows where archery targets? Chain dropping torches?

I've seen a few of your post now, and I thought you just might have had bad english, but now i'm thinking either

1. You're probably just a troll

2. Are just an idiot

Because you have no idea what you're talking about and you're replys dont make sense. Sorry, I dont say those things lightly, but dont comment if you have no idea what you're talking about.

Yea I joke sometimes maybe my humor is little different cause of the cultural differences but you are big idiot for taking this to this kind of level, what you want a reward for having the most effective posts I'm sure that you will receive a medal from Hinterland now, and anything I say about the present game mechanics is true I learned it by reading most of the posts here. you don't like my replies don't read them you don't like to go to DP don't go, you are forcing yourself on these things nobody is holding a gun on to your head you BIG BABY!

[Amazombie]

Yea I joke sometimes maybe my humor is little different cause of the cultural differences but you are big idiot for taking this to this kind of level, what you want a reward for having the most effective posts I'm sure that you will receive a medal from Hinterland now, and anything I say about the present game mechanics is true I learned it by reading most of the posts here. you don't like my replies don't read them you don't like to go to DP don't go, you are forcing yourself on these things nobody is holding a gun on to your head you BIG BABY!

So you are saying, now that ax and hunting knife cannot be repaired with the almost endless metal and wood we find in the world and the only alternative is to go to DP to forge the handmade ones. There is another alternative? Because I'd like to hear it?

Because you seem to be the expert on the subject lets hear how you do it.

Assume you made it that far, you've used up your ax and knife and they are no more. Where do you go and how do you get new ones?

I'll await your reply, this time please dont forget to only use things that actually exist in the game.

[vancopower]

So you are saying, now that ax and hunting knife cannot be repaired with the almost endless metal and wood we find in the world and the only alternative is to go to DP to forge the handmade ones. There is another alternative? Because I'd like to hear it?

Because you seem to be the expert on the subject lets hear how you do it.

Assume you made it that far, you've used up your ax and knife and they are no more. Where do you go and how do you get new ones?

I'll await your reply, this time please dont forget to only use things that actually exist in the game.

You are joking right? how much days have you got under your belt? correct me if I am wrong with this expression I am not American.

First thing you don't even need the knife or the hatched (unless you are fighting lot of wolves) so much since you can cut meat with the HackSaw yes it is in the game I am not imagining it.

Second as I said you go to DP when you are at your best let's say stocked with supplies.

Third there is no alternative because you don't really need one if you did everything before of time not rushing you shouldn't have a problem, but let's say you are out of knives and hatchets and you did not forge new ones in that case your only goal is go to the mines get tons of coal make fire one coal gives you 1 hour burn time that means 3 torches grab 5-6 torches from the fire and no wolf will dare approach you when you see wolf drop the lit torch on the ground and immediately lit another one from the one on the ground if you position yourself from the other side of the torch the wolf will not cross it it will just stand there growling lit up another torch and wave at the wolf puff the wolf is scared I know it seems complicated but in truth it is not so yea when you have defense against the wolves and you don't rush in to bad weather is it so hard to arrive at DP, oh and sorry I should make this clear also maybe you can repair the hacksaw with scrap metal so it is renewable also you could repair the hammer with just fir wood so you don't have to hunt you could just fish braking the ice with the hammer. There are many options I am sure there are many more I am far from expert at this game everything I say I read it here on some posts.

[Amazombie]

So you are saying, now that ax and hunting knife cannot be repaired with the almost endless metal and wood we find in the world and the only alternative is to go to DP to forge the handmade ones. There is another alternative? Because I'd like to hear it?

Because you seem to be the expert on the subject lets hear how you do it.

Assume you made it that far, you've used up your ax and knife and they are no more. Where do you go and how do you get new ones?

I'll await your reply, this time please dont forget to only use things that actually exist in the game.

You are joking right? how much days have you got under your belt? correct me if I am wrong with this expression I am not American.

First thing you don't even need the knife or the hatched (unless you are fighting lot of wolves) so much since you can cut meat with the HackSaw yes it is in the game I am not imagining it.

Second as I said you go to DP when you are at your best let's say stocked with supplies.

Third there is no alternative because you don't really need one if you did everything before of time not rushing you shouldn't have a problem, but let's say you are out of knives and hatchets and you did not forge new ones in that case your only goal is go to the mines get tons of coal make fire one coal gives you 1 hour burn time that means 3 torches grab 5-6 torches from the fire and no wolf will dare approach you when you see wolf drop the lit torch on the ground and immediately lit another one from the one on the ground if you position yourself from the other side of the torch the wolf will not cross it it will just stand there growling lit up another torch and wave at the wolf puff the wolf is scared I know it seems complicated but in truth it is not so yea when you have defense against the wolves and you don't rush in to bad weather is it so hard to arrive at DP, oh and sorry I should make this clear also maybe you can repair the hacksaw with scrap metal so it is renewable also you could repair the hammer with just fir wood so you don't have to hunt you could just fish braking the ice with the hammer. There are many options I am sure there are many more I am far from expert at this game everything I say I read it here on some posts.

Well, you are correct i dont need a hatchet, as long as i dont want to collect anything bigger than a stick.

AGAIN, you are missing the point. I do NOT feel we should have to go to DP and Forge new ones. Thats the whole point of this. You keep going back to being prepared and getting your stuff forged ahead of time. Thats not the point. The point is they removed ways to repair the knife and hatchet which could make them last much longer, so once those tools are gone. (we are not discussing the hacksaw at the moment or the hammer)

the only option is to use the forged ones. No matter if i got them early or late makes no difference here.

So i'll try one more time. Can you tell me. Once the AX and HATCHET are destroyed. You can get another one WITHOUT going to DP? You cannot. therefore to replace those, or have replacements we are being forced to go to DP to get them. That was the point.

[vancopower]

AGAIN, you are missing the point. I do NOT feel we should have to go to DP and Forge new ones. Thats the whole point of this. You keep going back to being prepared and getting your stuff forged ahead of time. Thats not the point. The point is they removed ways to repair the knife and hatchet which could make them last much longer, so once those tools are gone. (we are not discussing the hacksaw at the moment or the hammer)

the only option is to use the forged ones. No matter if i got them early or late makes no difference here.

So I'll try one more time. Can you tell me. Once the AX and HATCHET are destroyed. You can get another one WITHOUT going to DP? You cannot. therefore to replace those, or have replacements we are being forced to go to DP to get them. That was the point.

I am not missing the point you are, why are you so attached to this repairing the hatched with scrap and wood yes it was like that but now it is not the game evolved they gave the hack saw the harvesting meat ability just for players like you always complaining. Is it really that bad in truth? have you actually ran out of knives and hatchets ? I think not, cause when that moment comes you will be way stocked up on supplies. Also coal is way better than sticks and it is renewable too, think through this for a moment would like a dull game to do everything as it was collect wood, harvest meat repair tolls same over and over again or would you like a game when you know that your tools are finite and you have to change your ways to survive in other words Evolve. Heck there is nothing wrong with the previous versions I believe you have them still just play an older version where you could repair the hatched with scrap and wood, for me that was always kind of a problem It did not feel right so I like this new mechanic better, "at the end did any of it really matter" - the long dark. Happy new year to you friend

[Amazombie]

AGAIN, you are missing the point. I do NOT feel we should have to go to DP and Forge new ones. Thats the whole point of this. You keep going back to being prepared and getting your stuff forged ahead of time. Thats not the point. The point is they removed ways to repair the knife and hatchet which could make them last much longer, so once those tools are gone. (we are not discussing the hacksaw at the moment or the hammer)

the only option is to use the forged ones. No matter if i got them early or late makes no difference here.

So I'll try one more time. Can you tell me. Once the AX and HATCHET are destroyed. You can get another one WITHOUT going to DP? You cannot. therefore to replace those, or have replacements we are being forced to go to DP to get them. That was the point.

I am not missing the point you are, why are you so attached to this repairing the hatched with scrap and wood yes it was like that but now it is not the game evolved they gave the hack saw the harvesting meat ability just for players like you always complaining. Is it really that bad in truth? have you actually ran out of knives and hatchets ? I think not, cause when that moment comes you will be way stocked up on supplies. Also coal is way better than sticks and it is renewable too, think through this for a moment would like a dull game to do everything as it was collect wood, harvest meat repair tolls same over and over again or would you like a game when you know that your tools are finite and you have to change your ways to survive in other words Evolve. Heck there is nothing wrong with the previous versions I believe you have them still just play an older version where you could repair the hatched with scrap and wood, for me that was always kind of a problem It did not feel right so I like this new mechanic better, "at the end did any of it really matter" - the long dark. Happy new year to you friend

you are still missing the point. hahaha, plus the hacksaw was not added for that. it was added to break down metal for scrap metal not for harvesting. Its been there back when we could repair that way. But yeah, again all that not the point. the point remains to replace those two objects we must go to DP. But, seeing as we are getting no where, I'll be moving on.

[vancopower]

But why are you so persistent on this, I get it I get it the old ways ware better for you. Well on the behalf on all in Hinterland Studio I wold like to apologize to you good sir since they are busy right now testing and evolving the game even further making new challenges for us. And they realized their mistake here

NOW I AM TROLLING YOU but just a little happy holidays mate

[Hesha]

I would really be interested to hear how you would suggest to make TLD an interesting game that is fun to play for more than 5 or 10 days if pretty much everything you need to do to survive is finding one hatchet (or one of each tool in general) at the beginning of the game which will then last eternally.

Okay. I will try and humour you, but I cannot promise my arguments will make sense to you, as we might be approaching this game from two vastly different perspectives and what we want this game to do for us might be quite different.

To answer your question in regard to tools: Yes, I would like the tools to pretty much last forever (provided you maintain them in a realistic manner), but I would not want that to be "pretty much everything you need to do to survive".

Before I go into more detail, I will explain briefly what my priorities are, what I enjoy in a game like this and what I don't like. For me a survival game is about realism - the more the better. Concessions that I can live with are ways of speeding up the game, as obviously most of us are unable to spend 16 hours a day playing TLD.

This is not meant to be criticism, but an honest question. Would you rather have (much more scarce and non-respawning) hunting prey as the sole reason to ever leave the area around your home base and explore all regions? Or would you have tools 10 times more scarce and accept the (presumably high) risk that new players would never find any tools at all?

Again, what I would like for the game, is to be as realistic as possible.

WILDLIFE

In regard to the wildlife this would mean no respawning as this is not usually how deer and wolves come into existence. I would image there to be a certain amount of animals on a map that behave in a natural way (no wolves on steroids for example) and, once dead, don't magically return. Of course there could be migration patterns with wolves leaving the map, other wolves moving onto the map, etc. At the same time I would like animals to be fully harvestable, i.e. give as much meat, organs, bones/marrow, hides/pelts etc. as they would in reality with realistic calorie value. This way there would be a lot of wildlife at the beginning, but it would be getting scarcer with the passage of time or rather your success in hunting them down. Killing a deer should be a massive achievement and be as rewarding, not - as it currently is - merely a waste of a bullet better kept for a bear.

TOOLS

I wouldn't like tools to be scarcer, no. As a matter of fact I feel that the map should be covered in hatchets. It is already ridiculous that those cabins by ML don't have stoves. Realistically they would and where there's a stove, there should be a hatchet. Hatchets should require maintenance, they go dull and need sharpening, the handles can break and need replacement, etc. Knives can break (when used inappropriately) and go dull, of course the handle could wear, but not as much as with the hatchet.

Mini-games instead of progress bars

If some of the game's activities were mini-games rather than simulated by progress bars, the player's skill could factor in more into the game. For example if chopping would was actually simulated by the playing choosing where/how to hold or stabilise the limb and then handling the axe and actually chopping the wood (choosing where to hit and how hard), bad hits could damage the hatchet or injure the character, etc. Once you have consistently perfected one task (e.g. by reaching a certain efficiency score in a number of subsequent repetitions) you would then get the option to automate that task and revert to a progress bar. Same for harvesting carcasses. I would be thrilled if you would get a close-up of the carcass and had to choose where to gut, what to grab and pull, etc. There could be a hunting manual somewhere on the map explaining the organs and giving advice on how to gut certain animals. An inexperienced player would only be able to harvest some meat and guts, but once you learn and get better, you get more from the animal, even just by trial and error in case you cannot find the book.

Because this "in reality things don't degrade, thus they shouldn't degrade in TLD either" argument can be applied to pretty much everything ingame, ranging from clothes and matches to weapons, tools and canned food.

Correct and I think it should, too.

CANNED FOOD

Canned food should be a valuable asset and a fall-back ration for bad times. It should keep as long as it would realistically, if the can is unopened. It would be cool though, if the labels deteriorated, or rather sometimes might be missing from the get-go and that way you would only know the contents once the can is opened.

CLOTHES

Clothes should be as robust as they are in reality. Your Winter coat doesn't degrade from wear as much as it currently does in-game. Wolf attacks and fights with bears, but also walking through thickets (not currently implemented) and injuring yourself with tools should damage your clothing (and injuries should be reduced by robust clothing in return). One piece of clothing that SHOULD deteriorate is the hand-crafted boots, as it is terribly difficult to make good footwear without modern equipment. There is no natural replacement for the synthetic soles of good hiking boots as far as I am aware. Not sure how water-tight you can make handmade boots, either. In addition I would like the option to improve clothing by reinforcing it or adding furs / more layers for extra warmth at the expense of extra weight, limited movement...

MATCHES

Matches should get spoiled when they get wet (slowly by natural humidity), rapidly if you get caught in rain or fall into water. At the same time it should be possible to keep them dry (in a constantly heated room, for example) and to craft protective matchboxes that might even be water-tight (wax/resin comes to mind).

WEAPONS

Weapons... now, I'm not experienced with firearms, so I don't have much knowledge, but I would assume that one could substitute almost everything in a gun-cleaning kit with something found in nature. Oil can be replaced by animal fat, brushes by sticks or maybe cat tails, pine twigs, etc., Screwdrivers with knives/pieces of metal, etc. People get really creative when in need and currently the game doesn't allow for any of this.

TOOLS

As for tools, in addition to what I said above, I think it's good that it only takes wood to fix hammers, but a saw-blade is the one tool for which I would actually agree with deterioration. Saw-blades are not easily crafted and once broken or missing some teeth they cannot really be repaired (by a survivalist) and get less and less useful. If you have good tools you could cut new teeth into a sheet of metal or a trimmed saw-blade, but that is a matter of how sophisticated we want the crafting to get. I would prefer low tech.

In reality you could find one of each tools and would probably be good for years. Canned food and matches would never turn bad and one set of clothes would last at least a year.

Exactly and that is what I would like in-game. With the exceptions as detailed above (e.g. things that WOULD damage clothes, etc.

If you ended up in a TLD-like situation in reality you would probably only gather what you desperately need to survive and from that point onwards try to leave your base as little as possible. If you managed to kill one deer you would have food for weeks, thus you wouldn't even go hunting very often. You'd almost certainly try to somehow sit out the winter season while postponing all travelling plans until spring arrives.

True. That happens to be the way I play the game (except for the fact that spring never comes). I haven't left ML yet, because I don't think it would make sense to the character. For all she can tell, everybody else is dead, so waiting for spring and then heading south would be the most reasonable thing to do.

My problem with this setup is that I for one have an incredibly hard time to imagine how TLD could be fun (or exciting) if things were that way. Maybe my imagination isn't good enough, I don't know.

Okay, I get that. Part of my answer lies in the answers I have provided above (additional game-play around tools, clothes, etc.). Here's some additional game-play feature I would really like:

- additional ways of preparing food. At the moment we simply "cook" meat or fish, which seems rather vague. In reality there would be tons of preparing meals with what we can find. Roast meat on a spit (lose fat dripping down), pan-fry meat/liver (need pot/pan), make a stew (requires additional foods, water and a pot), make bone broth (requires a pot and water), smoke meat, dry-cure meat, pickle meat (requires vinegar), there are so many possibilities and ways for the player to experiment around. Not to find the "best" (i.e. gamey-est) way, but also for flavour and personal preference (most nourishing, warming, preserving, etc.). This is something I would certainly do in a situation like that - try and make survival as pleasant as possible.

- readable books. Seriously, has anyone here ever needed to burn I book? I certainly haven't and they're too heavy anyway. There are so many aspiring writers out there. Just give them a couple o' bob and put their novels/short stories into the game as readable books, through in a few survival, hunting and crafting guides for player education.

- more interaction with environment. Most (almost all) that we can see when walking around TLD is non-interactive. Snow shouldn't just "be there", it should be collectible and one should be able to fill big containers with it (for example bath tubs) and let it melt without wasting fuel specifically on it. Snow could also exist in various stages of pollution. Dust, Ash, animals, etc. would leave traces, freshly fallen snow would be more precious, etc. Buildings and furniture should be interactive. What stops the player from breaking down the piers or cabins around the lake for firewood? Why can't we harvest all those extra beds for wood, cloth and padding. Or even grab an extra duvet for your base. Or take wood from the burnt down cabins. Movable furniture would also be cool, definitely within maps but also between buildings. You can move really heavy stuff if you put your mind to it and take your time. This would also include (re)moving dead bodies to make your base more pleasant to inhabit (would you sleep right next to a dead body?) and adding the option to bury, burn or even chop up dead bodies for using them as decoys (depending on the inclination of the player and how desperate one is). Dead bodies should also have far more loot on them, a full set of clothing, for example, which might be difficult to take off.

- speaking of harvesting wood, I would like there to be more types of wood (yes, even more). Harvesting firewood is a craft in itself, if not an art. There is fresh wood (terrible fuel), cured wood (great fuel), wet wood (i.e. wet, formerly cured wood; better than fresh wood, dries more quickly) and then there's worm-eaten wood (tinder-like). In reality you would harvest a lot of fresh wood (from limbs and logs) or wet wood (from benches, piers, etc) and keep it somewhere warm and dry to cure it before using it as fuel. Early in the game reclaimed wood would be your only decent fuel, so there would need to be more of it than there is currently, but my previous suggestion would take care of that. I would enjoy something that enforces more long-term planning without artificial punishments.

- Way, way, WAY more crafting. There are so many things one would try to craft in a survival situation. And yet the game only offers very few recipes, most of which would not even be within the top20 of any real survivalist. There could be additional tools and weapons (sling shots, spears, makeshift knives, full-sized axes made by putting a longer handle on a hatchet and forging additional metal to the hammer head, splitting mauls, wedges for splitting logs, shovels, dedicated ice picks, etc.), traps for hunting and home defense, cages for catching/keeping animals (catching a bunch of rabbits might be a clever way to start a little breeding operation, but you'd have to gather feed for them or share your food in exchange for delicious rabbit meat and fine furs), far more options for crafting, repairing and improving various items of clothing (e.g. jeans with an inner lining of rabbit for and an outer layer of buck leather). I would imagine it is far easier to improve existing clothes than making them from scratch. Every type of fur could be used to make any kind of clothing, but players would be challenged to find the best materials for various uses. Also, I would much prefer if crafting "recipes" would need to be discovered. Some basic stuff can be there from the start, but additional recipes could be discovered by experimenting (combining materials and seeing what you can do) or found in books or by discovering half-finished crafting attempts by other survivors. There could (and should) be hundreds of recipes in the game. I don't see any reason why not.

- more weapons, more ammo, more ammo types. I would love to see air rifles (for fowling/crow hunting), handguns, shotguns and even a scope for the hunting rifle added to the game. There should be more ammo, as well. I am sure hunters in Canada don't enjoy having to go to the shop every day because they only keep 5 rounds in their cabins at any one time. There should be more ammo, but at the same time, there should be various calibers, so that you might end up in a situation where you have dozens of rounds, but none you can use with the gun you have. This would even open up the possibility of scavenging empty shells and trying to craft wrong-caliber ammo into a caliber you can use (again, I am not a shooter, but I imagine one could file down a bullet to fit a smaller caliber gun and refill an empty shell/fit in a percussion cap from another bullet? Maybe not, dunno ^^ Then again, some calibers are more or less compatible with smaller / slightly bigger calibers. Wouldn't it be fun to face down a charging wolf/bear/puma and not being sure if the round you loaded with fire properly? Also, a bayonet for your rifle would be awesome. Especially if you fitted it with a cross guard to keep the animal at a distance.

- containers. You cannot carry water in your empty hands and you cannot cook soup without a heat-proof container. Empty cans should not just disappear and water shouldn't be transportable without a container. In my opinion containers would add a lot to the game-play. They could be turned into crafting materials, if you have too many, or used as pots, pans, etc.

- I could add a lot more, but I think you should get an idea of the kind of game I would like by now...

This turned into a rather lengthy post... I have tried to structure it to improve readability. Hope it makes sense to you! Merry Christmas!