Increased Stamina and Carry Capacity

[Arcadia Nights]

I think that the Character should get a slow increase of Stamina the longer they survive. This would make sense because the more exercise they would do, the more they could sprint.

I also think that the Carry Capacity should increase the longer you survive. I feel like this is fairly important. We can quickly become over encumbered and it's hard to tell what you should leave behind. Bringing enough wood for a good fire while holding a Rifle, Water, Food, Hatchet, and the clothes on your back makes it so you essentially can't go out in the dark and won't likely have enough heat to survive the night. For me, night time gameplay is virtually nonexistent but I feel like a lot of interesting moments could come out of it. I am always shelter hopping because death is just a snow storm or a fog away. With a little more Carry Capacity, I could feel more comfortable exploring.

I think that these additions also make a lot of sense. There are many other skills that increase with practice like making fires or repairing your stuff, so why not Stamina for sprinting and Carry Capacity for holding all that weight?

The last note is that it would make me feel much more attached to my Sandbox character as I have invested a lot of time and effort into them and they are better for it. Currently, when I die, I shrug my shoulders and restart the game in nearly the same position as I was when I died. Holding barely anything, cold, and alone. Giving extra stats like that, and potentially others, gives me a sense of loss when I die.

[CCbreaker]

I like these ideas, and the carry capacity is low. 30 KG including clothing worn... this guy/ girl is a wimp lol.

When I went pack packing at 16 years old my pack (not including clothing worn) weighed about 102 Lbs (46 KG) and by the 3rd day I was running up and down hills with it on. At 16 I was a tooth pick and no where near as strong as I am at 42.

[AmericanSteel]

I like these ideas, and the carry capacity is low. 30 KG including clothing worn... this guy/ girl is a wimp lol.

When I went pack packing at 16 years old my pack (not including clothing worn) weighed about 102 Lbs (46 KG) and by the 3rd day I was running up and down hills with it on. At 16 I was a tooth pick and no where near as strong as I am at 42.

Now do it in snow drifts. Everything changes.

[ctstannard]

It would be interesting if perhaps you could find items to increase carrying capacity. Like better/bigger backpacks or bags. Perhaps sacrifice a bit of speed if you are wearing larger backpacks?

[Boston123]

I like these ideas, and the carry capacity is low. 30 KG including clothing worn... this guy/ girl is a wimp lol.

When I went pack packing at 16 years old my pack (not including clothing worn) weighed about 102 Lbs (46 KG) and by the 3rd day I was running up and down hills with it on. At 16 I was a tooth pick and no where near as strong as I am at 42.

Now do it in snow drifts. Everything changes.

Exactly.

If anything, 60 lbs is WAY TOO MUCH

EDIT: What the hell were you backpacking with that required 102 lbs of gear?

[Ruhroe]

This was discussed very early on and as I recall they want you to have to go outside, explore and take risks. Carrying too much kind of removes much of the challenge and choices. The weight capacity was much higher at one point and they've adjusted it around. It seems right now.

The fatigue system (how much and how quickly you gain it) already affects this a lot too. Perhaps this just needs more tuning and more dependence for different difficulties, so people can more appreciate making choices with fatigue issues in mind. Maybe people just don't realize how important it can be (at least on Stalker).

Also, one of the key design aspects the game seems to work around is the fairly realistic scenario that you're working against time, in a no win situation, in a very harsh environment. Doing just the necessities and just holding on is success: finding some food, some clothing, living through another night. You're not flourishing, just the opposite. Getting stronger sort of goes against the hopelessness of the situation and might work against the immersion.

[DarkUncleBoh]

Getting stronger sort of goes against the hopelessness of the situation and might work against the immersion.

That really depends on how you look at it, IMO. On the one hand, sure "getting stronger doesn't seem hopeless".

On the other hand, what is the primary driving force of hopelessness in the game? Finite resources.

As it stands right now, you already "get stronger" in a sense - you find/craft better clothing, work on a stash of essentials, etc. Regardless of difficulty level, the game isn't balanced to be a constant "down-slope" from the very start (and wouldn't be nearly as enthralling if it was) - it is balanced to be a bell curve of sorts. You start out desperate for anything, but as you find tools etc, your situation improves - and while there is a constant struggle to meet your basic needs, the real limiting factor to time is resources. Sooner or later you won't be able to find any more kerosene for your storm lantern, or scrap metal to keep repairing your hatchet/knife and/or replace fishing hooks, etc.

Given that, you could view getting stronger - personally, physically - as one more thing that you can capitalize on to "stretch out" that bell curve -- now you can go further / gather more / etc, with greater efficiency in terms of time/calories/equipment wear and tear... while that changes how you can access the finite resources that exist, it doesn't change their actual finite nature.

Personally I am in favor of increased stamina/carry capacity, though I wouldn't attribute it to time. I'd rather see a "wellness" system (similar to 7 Days to Die) that impacts your stamina, carry capacity, and your fatigue rate. Your wellness stat can go up or down -- up in tiny increments by doing things like getting a full night's sleep, eating hearty/healthy foods (ie, candy bars and soda wouldn't grant wellness at all - which adds greater differentiation to foods beyond just rate of decay and caloric density by weight) -- but could also go down in small increments by suffering negative conditions (so you may treat the condition, but the wellness "loss" sticks around).

I wouldn't want to see the impact of this be huge -- for example with carry capacity, maybe plus or minus 6 kg from the normal cap between the extreme minimum and maximum wellness. Something that wouldn't be a massive game changer, but would make for another layer of consequence from your choices.

[ctstannard]

Personally I am in favor of increased stamina/carry capacity, though I wouldn't attribute it to time. I'd rather see a "wellness" system (similar to 7 Days to Die) that impacts your stamina, carry capacity, and your fatigue rate. Your wellness stat can go up or down -- up in tiny increments by doing things like getting a full night's sleep, eating hearty/healthy foods (ie, candy bars and soda wouldn't grant wellness at all - which adds greater differentiation to foods beyond just rate of decay and caloric density by weight) -- but could also go down in small increments by suffering negative conditions (so you may treat the condition, but the wellness "loss" sticks around).

I wouldn't want to see the impact of this be huge -- for example with carry capacity, maybe plus or minus 6 kg from the normal cap between the extreme minimum and maximum wellness. Something that wouldn't be a massive game changer, but would make for another layer of consequence from your choices.

I am definitely in favor of this idea. I like the idea of a long term wellness that takes continuous effort to maintain. I also think it could help with a few other areas too, especially getting a full night's sleep. I find that I often end up sleeping for an hour at a time in order to perform other tasks in between but if you were rewarded with a better overall "wellness" by getting a regular full sleep that would compel me more to manage my sleeping habits better.

[AmericanSteel]

Personally I am in favor of increased stamina/carry capacity, though I wouldn't attribute it to time. I'd rather see a "wellness" system (similar to 7 Days to Die) that impacts your stamina, carry capacity, and your fatigue rate. Your wellness stat can go up or down -- up in tiny increments by doing things like getting a full night's sleep, eating hearty/healthy foods (ie, candy bars and soda wouldn't grant wellness at all - which adds greater differentiation to foods beyond just rate of decay and caloric density by weight) -- but could also go down in small increments by suffering negative conditions (so you may treat the condition, but the wellness "loss" sticks around).

I wouldn't want to see the impact of this be huge -- for example with carry capacity, maybe plus or minus 6 kg from the normal cap between the extreme minimum and maximum wellness. Something that wouldn't be a massive game changer, but would make for another layer of consequence from your choices.

I am definitely in favor of this idea. I like the idea of a long term wellness that takes continuous effort to maintain. I also think it could help with a few other areas too, especially getting a full night's sleep. I find that I often end up sleeping for an hour at a time in order to perform other tasks in between but if you were rewarded with a better overall "wellness" by getting a regular full sleep that would compel me more to manage my sleeping habits better.

A full nights sleep is a monstrosity that came to being with the advent of electricity. Most people had a "sleep 1" and a "sleep 2" cycle up until the 20th century. You would go to bed, sleep and then get up for a few hours. People would then head down to the pub or work on projects at home (like weaving and sewing) from candle/fire light. They would then go back to sleep and get up before first light.

While getting 7 to 9 hours may be dandy for some, I bet more and more people would revert to this kind of sleep cycle.

[DarkUncleBoh]

A full nights sleep is a monstrosity that came to being with the advent of electricity. Most people had a "sleep 1" and a "sleep 2" cycle up until the 20th century. You would go to bed, sleep and then get up for a few hours. People would then head down to the pub or work on projects at home (like weaving and sewing) from candle/fire light. They would then go back to sleep and get up before first light.

It started before electricity, really -- at least from what I've read, "public lighting" is believed to be the big original impact (such as gas lighting starting back in the 18th century, which is also when historical references to first / second sleep started to wane, though not really disappearing entirely until the 20th century) as it increased the hours in the day that were perceived as "time to be active", resulting in fewer hours dedicated to rest/sleep.

Regardless, as I'd see it for a "wellness" system, the issue wouldn't be "8 hours in a row or not" but more a matter of "resting beyond the absolute minimum required to keep your fatigue level down". Think of it as your body doing what it can during sleep time - first it focuses on removing fatigue, and only then once it has removed all of the fatigue, can it focus on "becoming healthier".

*shrug* It may not be the most realistic mechanic, but IMO if done properly it could add an additional layer of interesting choices and consequences to gameplay.

[Arcadia Nights]

A lot of people have been talking about the "wellness" method of implementing the Stamina and Carry Capacity stat increase. I think that the wellness system pitched is far more complicated than it needs to be. It could simply be based off of some sort of equation of time survived + distance traveled (with a clause that they have not been running in a circle or against a wall) gives (X) bonus to stat. They already have your carry capacity and sprint tied to your Fatigue so your stats will still decrease if you need rest.

I believe that if this function is added in the game, it will create a lot of attachment to the character, as the player would feel a great loss if they died after surviving a few weeks or months.

[DarkUncleBoh]

The idea of increased carry capacity / increased stamina based off of something as straightforward and simple as time survived (and/or distance traveled) is very much something that I do not want to see put into the game.

1) Adding stats over the passing of time regardless of actions taken (even if you add in distance traveled), doesn't add anything interesting to the game based off of the choices you make - which makes it a "boring" mechanic IMO.

2) This would reward what I would consider to be "abuse" of the system and/or "bad gameplay behavior". If the player is doing nothing each day but going outside naked to harvest rabbit meat from snares, eating the absolute bare minimum of raw meat and drinking the minimum amount of water, and overall doing the absolute minimum required to keep from dying from starvation/dehydration/frostbite/food poisoning... they should not be getting "healthier" just because time is passing.

3) I disagree that this would cause player attachment to their character, at least not any more than there already is in the game. If their stats increase over time, rather than as a reaction to choices they have made and actions they have taken, then why should they care? The next character they play will end up in the same place "health wise" once they reach an equivalent number of days. Or to put it another way: player attachment comes from a sense of achievement. The entire gameplay focus of TLD is already based around "staying alive for X number of days" being an achievement - the game doesn't need additional elements to making staying alive feel like an achievement, when it already is the main achievement of the game.

[LucidFugue]

I'm against this idea mostly because the longer you survive the less carry capacity becomes an issue, as far as I've found. Once you make it to Pleasant Valley Homestead, Quonset Gas, Lake Cabin, or Trappers, you're journeying from there for specific reasons and you can leave most of your gear at home base.

Try lowering your essentials - I've gotten down as 16kgs, but I'm usually up to around 19kgs. Here's some tips:

You don't need more than 10 units of cloth - and that's overkill. Are you really going to need to use that before you can get back to your shelter? Especially nnow that you can source cloth in just about any dwelling. Stash some in houses if you're worried, but you don't need to carry your supply around.

Ditto for fir and scrap metal. You don't need it with you. You have so much leeway between when you can get the most out of a repair and when you need to repair without risking breaking the tool that it's not necessary.

For that matter, toolkits don't need to be carried around either.

Fill your lantern and ditch the fuel unless you're going through the caves. It takes a long time to burn through all that fuel.

You don't need to carry firewood unless you're intending to go out in freezing temperatures and start a fire out there. If it's above zero, you can easily chop up the wood you need on your way, and collecting sticks can totally negate the need for logs. If you leave your house empty handed, you can come back with a load of wood you've collected and didn't wind up using, rather than having the dead weight in your inventory.

Only carry 1 book of matches, distribute any spares in your hideouts.

Only carry the calories you need for your journey, and leave the heavy stuff at home. I take cat tails, energy bars or bear/deer meat mostly, leaving everything else in the hideout. If you can hold out till you get back, you don't need to use the good stuff.

Also, consider how much water you need. More than 2.5 litres is only required for several days journey where you aren't planning on starting a fire during that time. I'm usually comfortable with 1.5, or 1 if I'm going to be back in the same day.

2 flares, tops. 1 will last hours and if you've got a knife/gun/bow, you'll probably use that instead.

Think really hard about what you actually need to take with you. Most crafting stuff might as well be at the workshop, and if you're going out wiht a purpose in mind, take only what you'll need. Suddenly carrying capacity isn't an issue, and you're free to be more opportunistic about chasing food or harvesting wood without winding up overencumbered and trudging slowly back home, exhausted.

[Hotzn]

I think that the Character should get a slow increase of Stamina the longer they survive. This would make sense because the more exercise they would do, the more they could sprint.

I also think that the Carry Capacity should increase the longer you survive. I feel like this is fairly important. We can quickly become over encumbered and it's hard to tell what you should leave behind. Bringing enough wood for a good fire while holding a Rifle, Water, Food, Hatchet, and the clothes on your back makes it so you essentially can't go out in the dark and won't likely have enough heat to survive the night. For me, night time gameplay is virtually nonexistent but I feel like a lot of interesting moments could come out of it. I am always shelter hopping because death is just a snow storm or a fog away. With a little more Carry Capacity, I could feel more comfortable exploring.

I think that these additions also make a lot of sense. There are many other skills that increase with practice like making fires or repairing your stuff, so why not Stamina for sprinting and Carry Capacity for holding all that weight?

The last note is that it would make me feel much more attached to my Sandbox character as I have invested a lot of time and effort into them and they are better for it. Currently, when I die, I shrug my shoulders and restart the game in nearly the same position as I was when I died. Holding barely anything, cold, and alone. Giving extra stats like that, and potentially others, gives me a sense of loss when I die.

The game already has a problem in so far that the player is progressing (crafting better gear, increase in fire lighting/sewing/repair skill) while the difficulty remains the same. At some point the game ceases to be difficult because of this. Now if more progression elements would be added, this problem would be aggravated. So my opinion is no.

[Sean]

While I don't like the idea of just giving it to the player, I like the idea that it should be a long-lasting buff that happens if you can keep your condition at or above 80% for more than 72 hours. Its good to have the idea that your character can have a "fresh wind" after hibernating for awhile, and allow challenges to be increased at areas which can be best tackled with a buffed character and permit a real midgame.

[AmericanSteel]

I'm against this idea mostly because the longer you survive the less carry capacity becomes an issue, as far as I've found. Once you make it to Pleasant Valley Homestead, Quonset Gas, Lake Cabin, or Trappers, you're journeying from there for specific reasons and you can leave most of your gear at home base.

Try lowering your essentials - I've gotten down as 16kgs, but I'm usually up to around 19kgs.

...

Think really hard about what you actually need to take with you. Most crafting stuff might as well be at the workshop, and if you're going out wiht a purpose in mind, take only what you'll need. Suddenly carrying capacity isn't an issue, and you're free to be more opportunistic about chasing food or harvesting wood without winding up overencumbered and trudging slowly back home, exhausted.

My load out depends on my mission but I always well rested, max out my calories and hydrate. I always carry essentials, which mirror a hunting "daypack" pretty well. Enough to get me by for a short period of time if things go south. My "pack" includes an additional few pounds of food, half a gallon of water, the modern bedroll, some matches, some tinder, my knife and my first aid kit. Boy I would love to toss a tarp in here If I am going hunting, then I tend to wear modern clothing (to keep down the weight), my bow, a few arrows, material to build a fire and a set of traps. If I am going on a looting run, then I wear a mix of furs and modern gear, add in the prybar with a flare or two thrown in. If I am going exploring then I wear my full fur set + carry my underclothing, my bearskin bedroll, two days worth of food, at least a gallon of water, bow and arrows, the axe, the prybar and a few rabbit traps. I don't even pack the rifle anymore. It weights just to darn much. My first bow lasted me until day 75 or so and arrows give you a few successful shots each. I have enough wood right now to make 7 bows and 60 odd arrows, and PV has not been fully explored yet and CH has barely been touched. I should not have to fire a rifle until I am well into my second year (600 days or so) even if I just decided to stay in ML from here on in.

All the extra materials I leave back at base camp or cache in other locations. Carrying around extra material to repair tools & clothing is just dead weight. All the hides and guts need to be curing at home, so carrying them around is pointless. Once they are cured, again, leave them at home. Crafting if for the house, not for the field. If I get so screwed over that my gear is shot, it is time to swallow my pride and head back home. Few people make discoveries on their first trip. This is an endurance event not a sprint.