Add a Map

[Arcadia Nights]

I would like to see a "Fill in as you go" map. This feels like a necessity. I also think there should be unique markers that you can write on the map that gives you the information that you would want to know. These markers would often represent the stuff you have left. So if you went to a house and found a bunch of food, but didn't have enough carry weight to bring it with you, you can leave a mark on the map that would remind you that there was food there.

I would suggest several markers:

1. Food

2. Crafting Area/Tools

3. Medicine

4. An X to signify the lack of items, or to show a blocked road.

I think that the Map should have to be crafted using paper and a writing utensil that would be found in the area.

[Capi]

There is a reason why not a map is already available in the game, it would make it too easy. Okay, most likely the pilot had a map to navigate by, and the airplane should also have had a compass of any kind. But I guess that both were destroyed in the crash?

[Arcadia Nights]

There is a reason why not a map is already available in the game, it would make it too easy. Okay, most likely the pilot had a map to navigate by, and the airplane should also have had a compass of any kind. But I guess that both were destroyed in the crash?

I really don't think it would be too easy. You are generally moving from area to area as it is, and having a Map would encourage you to explore the entire area before going to the other area. The only thing that would make it easier is that you wouldn't go around in circles as much. Part of the problem is that there are a lot of things that mess with the players perspective of the area. Everything looks very similar and it's hard sometimes to not back track. Fog and Snow Storms are other things that force players to stay inside, not taking risks. Also getting caught in a Fog while exploring can easily end in death if you have traveled a bit too far from your camp. Having a map tells the player that it's ok to go out in a fog or night but to be careful.

I'm not sure you read my last sentence. I would think that the Map would be crafted from items found in houses so you wouldn't start out with it, so there is still the danger in the first day or 3 of being lost and confused. But at some point, a person stranded who needs to be able to know the area would create a map.

While I would like a compass, I agree with another poster who says that a compass wouldn't work due to the geomagnetic storm. A self made map would be great as it would greatly encourage exploration and give people a fighting chance in Fog, Snow Storm, or at Night.

[danicusrex]

Just draw a map yourself with a pencil and piece of paper. Like, in real life. Thats what I did.

[selfless]

I think players may get even more distracted trying to fill in all the unknown areas instead of following their own progression zone to zone.

Worse, once everyone has an identical map, exploration is reduced to googling the wiki

[Arcadia Nights]

Just draw a map yourself with a pencil and piece of paper. Like, in real life. Thats what I did.

It's not a good thing that you should draw a map in real life. That literally is telling the Devs that an in-game Map is warranted. There is clearly a demand for it to be in the game. No game should (essentially) force players to pull out a piece of paper and draw a map to keep with them while they play.

I think players may get even more distracted trying to fill in all the unknown areas instead of following their own progression zone to zone.

Worse, once everyone has an identical map, exploration is reduced to googling the wiki

People will play how they want to play. If they want to fill out the entire map, then great. That's really good information for them and they did the information gathering that will point them to a safer place to go in the future should they need certain supplies. If players want to just go from zone to zone, then that's fine, but it will get difficult when they need to back track to other zones but they're low on supplies and don't know where new stuff is.

FYI, people have already created full maps of the zones with the locations of bunkers and exits listed. If people decide to print up the map and keep it with them as they play, then that's their business. Including a Map in the game would immensely decrease the need for people to want to do that.

I've been surviving on the Coastal Highway for 15+ days and haven't found the exit to the other zone due to having to back track and making sure I don't get lost in the woods. Not having a map hindered my exploration and made me play it extra safe. I was convinced that there was no exit in the Coastal Highway when starting in it and I was going to give up and die so I could play in another area. I looked up to see if there was a map (because you said that having a map in game would cause people to post it online) and found that there is an exit. I could have found it on my own if there was an unexplored area on my in game map and I think it would have been better.

[danicusrex]

It's not a good thing that you should draw a map in real life. That literally is telling the Devs that an in-game Map is warranted. There is clearly a demand for it to be in the game. No game should (essentially) force players to pull out a piece of paper and draw a map to keep with them while they play.

I dont think the game forces anyone to do what I did. In fact, I actively resist the idea of an in-game map, because the game is WAY less likely to be inaccurate than I am.

Now, maybe you're having a different experience than I am, but I LIKE the feeling of being lost from time to time. I LIKE having to figure out where the hell my camp is if I've gotten turned around.

And if my map isn't correct, well, that's a cool moment. I find it unlikely that the in-game map would misjudge direction/distance in the same way my crude pencil drawings would.

[octavian]

No game should (essentially) force players to pull out a piece of paper and draw a map to keep with them while they play.

The game doesn't force you to do anything. You could have found the exits from CH on your own too, they exist, but you chose to look online. Even if a map thing gets added, why fill it, why explore, just go online and be done with it.

Like I've said in other places, a map (and compass for that matter) are useless in such small areas, couple of square km. Having a map-like object it pointless and weird. Tiny scale. Really awkward.

Having a map decal, like at the camp office or whatever, on a wall, is also useless. It's OK-ish from a gameplay perspective, and it could be made nice, unique, awesome art style, a really awesome set piece, but then again people just go online and look at the maps because they can't take it with them so it would be more or less pointless.

Having a map abstraction like in any other game, a floaty HUD thing like you're the Terminator, well, you already have enough bars and numbers to fly a fighter plane.

TLD does a bad job at showing its strong points to new players, like exploration and routes.

But, someone is just poking me and saying maps may be a part of story mode. Mappy, things. Like directions to caches, points of interest, like, maybe, the bunker is behind the hunting blind at the pond. This kind of idea. That's, all they want to tell me at this point. So, all hope is not lost for those wanting a map thing.

[toebar]

Just draw a map yourself with a pencil and piece of paper. Like, in real life. Thats what I did.

It's not a good thing that you should draw a map in real life. That literally is telling the Devs that an in-game Map is warranted. There is clearly a demand for it to be in the game. No game should (essentially) force players to pull out a piece of paper and draw a map to keep with them while they play.

I disagree. This game steps back from the current trend in gaming of spoon-feeding every little thing to the player. Having no map means that you actually need to think about what you're doing, and learn the map. That's part of the skill set of TLD.

Is it harder that way? Yes. But also more rewarding to learn and actually gain skill as a player. The maps are well-crafted, and exploration of them is a key part of the game. Add an in-game map, and that exploration becomes mundane--just another square to visit to fill in the map.

[Arcadia Nights]

Even if a map thing gets added, why fill it, why explore, just go online and be done with it.

Like I've said in other places, a map (and compass for that matter) are useless in such small areas, couple of square km. Having a map-like object it pointless and weird. Tiny scale. Really awkward.

Having a map abstraction like in any other game, a floaty HUD thing like you're the Terminator, well, you already have enough bars and numbers to fly a fighter plane.

I gave a scenario earlier on why it would be good to fill out the map, but I'm assuming that you're more talking about why someone would want to fill out the map when they could go online and see the map. What I hear your argument is, is that because you can see the full map online, there's no reason to explore the area if you had a map in game. I feel like this is a really bad argument. I'll take a game like GTA and use your logic to say that because you can see the full map online with the locations of everything, that you wouldn't explore at all. I completely disagree. I think that people would explore and make notes (using in game markers on the map) on where goods are located so they can return there if they need it.

I don't think that the area is as small as you make it out to be. For one, you move relatively slowly and you often can't stay outside long, making the area explore-able in smaller bursts, making it easier to forget whats been around you. The map actually feels very large since you can only travel short distances due to the cold, weather, animals, time of day, and food.

I'm not thinking an abstract map. I'm thinking more like the map you have in Minecraft. it would fit really well in this game. I'd also say that you could add the markers through an option in the menu.

I dont think the game forces anyone to do what I did. In fact, I actively resist the idea of an in-game map, because the game is WAY less likely to be inaccurate than I am.

Now, maybe you're having a different experience than I am, but I LIKE the feeling of being lost from time to time. I LIKE having to figure out where the hell my camp is if I've gotten turned around.

And if my map isn't correct, well, that's a cool moment. I find it unlikely that the in-game map would misjudge direction/distance in the same way my crude pencil drawings would.

What I mean by "Essentially forces the player to draw a map." is more that it encourages people to draw a map because it is that useful to have one. You are evidence that a having a map is something you want. The map could be done in a way where it doesn't always tell you where your position is, sort of like how it doesn't always tell you how much daylight/darkness you have left.

You could also just NOT craft the map if you don't want it.

[Arcadia Nights]

Just draw a map yourself with a pencil and piece of paper. Like, in real life. Thats what I did.

It's not a good thing that you should draw a map in real life. That literally is telling the Devs that an in-game Map is warranted. There is clearly a demand for it to be in the game. No game should (essentially) force players to pull out a piece of paper and draw a map to keep with them while they play.

I disagree. This game steps back from the current trend in gaming of spoon-feeding every little thing to the player. Having no map means that you actually need to think about what you're doing, and learn the map. That's part of the skill set of TLD.

Is it harder that way? Yes. But also more rewarding to learn and actually gain skill as a player. The maps are well-crafted, and exploration of them is a key part of the game. Add an in-game map, and that exploration becomes mundane--just another square to visit to fill in the map.

It's hardly spoon feeding players every little thing to add a map that you craft. You still need to think about what your doing and learn the map. This is a survival game, and in what universe does someone who is trying to survive NOT make a map. Especially in this characters situation where shelter is huge in their survival.

It's also not just another square to visit. There are goods that are randomized in the sheltered areas and there could be dead bodies (should they make them random spawns) that the player could stumble across, or other "events" that could be made to spawn in random areas. If you fill out a map, it doesn't mean that you have done it all. When you die, different items will be in different places and different events could be in different locations.

I really don't understand why people are against having a map. It makes sense with the narrative and people are already creating maps because they feel the need for one.

[Bill Tarling]

It's hardly spoon feeding players every little thing to add a map that you craft. You still need to think about what your doing and learn the map. This is a survival game, and in what universe does someone who is trying to survive NOT make a map. Especially in this character's situation where shelter is huge in their survival.

There's a difference between trying to make a map, and the reveal maps most games give players... The character is a pilot, not a cartographer.

A huge part of the game is discovery - and feels great when you start recognizing landmarks to get around. Once the player-made online maps started being used, it became more common to hear complaints of "okay so I've played the game for 2 hours, and I've seen everything and been to every building. What now?"

It's like with the new area coming up - it would be way less exciting if you were shown where everything was, and didn't need to explore or find your way around.

They may come up with something if story mode needs a map, but one of the appeals of exploration in the game is not having a map which shows you radar markings for every hidden enemy, loot location, and building.

Nothing wrong with maps in games when applicable, but I still think it would take away a lot of the excitement for players in TLD. One of the best parts of the game was the excitement when you discovered places on your own early on.

[Arcadia Nights]

I'm not saying to force a Map on anyone. It would be a feature that someone would discover. It would have a weight and take time to update. It would add depth to the game and provide another play style for people and/or something more to do. If you feel like you know the terrain well enough, then you could easily opt out of crafting the map.

I realize that he's a Pilot and not a Cartographer, but Pilots need to know how to read a map, therefore it isn't out of the ordinary that they could draw landmarks on a piece of paper with an understandable distance between landmarks. Obviously it wouldn't look like a pro did it, but it would be crude with sketches for landmarks. I'm sure that any of you could walk a square mile and mark on a map where things of importance are to you.

When you say "It's like with the new area coming up - it would be way less exciting if you were shown where everything was, and didn't need to explore or find your way around." I'm not saying that you are shown the entire area. You would first have to find the materials to craft a map, and then explore the area with the map (either in hand or inventory) to fill it out where you go.

So far all of the complaint's I've heard on why to not have a map are things that the player can opt out of. Adding this in doesn't affect you at all, unless you want to do it.

[octavian]

So far all of the complaint's I've heard on why to not have a map are things that the player can opt out of. Adding this in doesn't affect you at all, unless you want to do it.

Isn't that a bit like saying, have an option for God mode, disabled by default? You can opt out, some will use it, you don't have to if you don't want to. How do you draw the line? Just because other games have maps but not God mode, and it doesn't sound right? Well, maybe that's their vision, maybe a map is God mode to them.

[CCbreaker]

I would like the option to find or craft a map

[Arcadia Nights]

So far all of the complaint's I've heard on why to not have a map are things that the player can opt out of. Adding this in doesn't affect you at all, unless you want to do it.

Isn't that a bit like saying, have an option for God mode, disabled by default? You can opt out, some will use it, you don't have to if you don't want to. How do you draw the line? Just because other games have maps but not God mode, and it doesn't sound right? Well, maybe that's their vision, maybe a map is God mode to them.

No, that's a faulty comparison. Comparing God Mode, and what that can do to a game, to a fill in as you explore map is... way off base. I don't believe that the Devs would view a simple map as threatening as a God Mode option.

Thanks for chiming in CCbreaker to show support for the addition.

[jackattack]

The only way I want to see in-game maps is as scenery in a few buildings (so they can only be consulted at those locations). Map coverage, markings, and completeness might vary randomly from game to game.

[danicusrex]

A huge part of the game is discovery - and feels great when you start recognizing landmarks to get around. Once the player-made online maps started being used, it became more common to hear complaints of "okay so I've played the game for 2 hours, and I've seen everything and been to every building. What now?"

This is exactly my point. Use your brain to figure out where you're going and remember landmarks. Things are more exciting that way. I was in PV for about a month in-game, and recently found a section of the map I'd never encountered before. That was a good feeling, because I honestly thought I'd seen everything already. That experience would have been ruined if I looked at an in-game map and went. "huh, there's a big blank spot in the corner."

[danicusrex]

The only way I want to see in-game maps is as scenery in a few buildings (so they can only be consulted at those locations). Map coverage, markings, and completeness might vary randomly from game to game.

This is something I actually don't mind. Something to give you a VAGUE idea that there's say, a forestry lookout, but if you try to go find it and get a little turned around, you cant just pull the map out and consult it. You'd either have to go back to the map location, or use your instincts to try and figure out where your objective likely is. In this example, it's going to be in a high place, so keep your eyes open.

And so you can't say "just take the map with you", maybe it's a mural painted on a wall? That even helps with it being vague, because murals aren't usually accurate regarding scale.

[jackattack]

Yes, or printed onto a board and bolted to the wall, or laminated into a countertop.

Or some places might have fragments of maps on walls, because the rest was torn down by somebody else. (That selfish so-and-so!)

[DarkUncleBoh]

So far all of the complaint's I've heard on why to not have a map are things that the player can opt out of. Adding this in doesn't affect you at all, unless you want to do it.

As I pointed out in another thread, there is no such thing as "this is optional, so it doesn't affect you at all". Time and energy on the part of the development team is a limited resource. Every feature added to the game, takes time away from either adding other new features, or from improving and polishing features that already exist.

This is why, to avoid the development process being crushed beneath "feature creep", every feature to be added to the game needs to be judged on how important it is to be there -- so while yes, people could just "opt out" of a feature they don't want, you're still asking for something that they actively would prefer development time be put into something else. Sorry if it seems I'm harping on this - I've worked in the software industry for 20 years, and run into this same basic argument constantly (and have seen smaller software companies go out of business, because of it).

THAT HAVING BEEN SAID...

I do actually like the idea of a VERY crude hand-drawn map that takes time to update, and isn't much more than a basic representation of where landmarks are in relation to one another. Personally, I would like to see this in the game, such that the "learning to find your way around" is still a major part of the game, but there is an option for a *little* bit of an assist -- but to be honest, there are a lot of other features that I would much much rather see in the game first. Especially since doing something like this would be somewhat developer work intensive, and fairly tester intensive (where Hinterlands is already saying most of their time is going), AND it would make it more difficult / more time intensive to continue adding more areas to explore.

[Arcadia Nights]

So far all of the complaint's I've heard on why to not have a map are things that the player can opt out of. Adding this in doesn't affect you at all, unless you want to do it.

As I pointed out in another thread, there is no such thing as "this is optional, so it doesn't affect you at all". Time and energy on the part of the development team is a limited resource. Every feature added to the game, takes time away from either adding other new features, or from improving and polishing features that already exist.

This is why, to avoid the development process being crushed beneath "feature creep", every feature to be added to the game needs to be judged on how important it is to be there -- so while yes, people could just "opt out" of a feature they don't want, you're still asking for something that they actively would prefer development time be put into something else. Sorry if it seems I'm harping on this - I've worked in the software industry for 20 years, and run into this same basic argument constantly (and have seen smaller software companies go out of business, because of it).

THAT HAVING BEEN SAID...

I do actually like the idea of a VERY crude hand-drawn map that takes time to update, and isn't much more than a basic representation of where landmarks are in relation to one another. Personally, I would like to see this in the game, such that the "learning to find your way around" is still a major part of the game, but there is an option for a *little* bit of an assist -- but to be honest, there are a lot of other features that I would much much rather see in the game first. Especially since doing something like this would be somewhat developer work intensive, and fairly tester intensive (where Hinterlands is already saying most of their time is going), AND it would make it more difficult / more time intensive to continue adding more areas to explore.

I understand that adding a new feature will take time away from other features and polish. I happen to think that this is a worth while feature.

Having a Map in the game with a fill as you find function would add a lot to the possible gameplay. It would add value to your sandbox character because it would take a lot of effort to fill out the map and dying would force you to start the map over, should you want to use it. It would also attract more Casual and Core players who find it to be too much to ask of a player to remember all of the details in the zones and landmarks in each area. There's all kinds of really neat things that they could do in this game to make the Map challenging and rewarding to use and fill out.

Having a full map in a house is worse in my opinion, because you will just make B-lines to the next area or other sheltered places. At least with the fill in as you find map, you have to actually explore the entire area to see the map as a whole. Adding a whole map right off the bat seems counter to what some of you would want. But I don't think the Devs want to get players to the point where they feel the need to look up a map online.

You could also do really creative things with a map in this game. You could make it so a blip on your map shows your current location, but not finding a landmark for a certain amount of time will cause the blip to go away until you find another landmark. This is similar to the player becoming unaware of how many hours of darkness or daylight are left. There are so many cool things that can be done with the map, and it sucks to hear people reject the map concept outright.

I also work in the games industry as a tester and some design. From a testing perspective, adding a map would drastically cut the needed testing time for everything else gameplay related, especially if it was a fill in as you go style map. From a design perspective, it opens up a lot options for creativity that can be explored and holds a really compelling narrative.

[toebar]

I'd be alright with portions of maps posted on walls (or elsewhere) that identify general layout or particular features or are used in narrative. (there actually is a low res one in game already! )

I'd also be alright with a fill in as you go map-- but only if filling it in is completely manual. Basically a digital pencil and paper.

The key thing is that the player has be able to locate themselves on the map (of any kind) without the aid of the game. No to blips please. The player needs to use their grey matter a bit.

[DarkUncleBoh]

I'd be alright with portions of maps posted on walls (or elsewhere) that identify general layout or particular features or are used in narrative. (there actually is a low res one in game already! )

I'd also be alright with a fill in as you go map-- but only if filling it in is completely manual. Basically a digital pencil and paper.

The key thing is that the player has be able to locate themselves on the map (of any kind) without the aid of the game. No to blips please. The player needs to use their grey matter a bit.

This sums it up for me pretty well I think. The player being able to look at the map and figure out where they are by comparing landmarks, would be a big part of it - including the possibility of misinterpreting something and thinking you're somewhere (on the map) that you're not.

Blips or anything like that on the map would, to me at least, feel like a complete betrayal of the feel of the game.

[Rooks_Nemesis]

Sorry but I couldn't help but Let out a massive LOL when I read players shouldn't have to pull out paper and a pencil to draw there maps.. OmG you can really tell what gaming has come to from that alone.. Back in the early PC days like 286/386 or even nes/snes days that kind of "gaming" was a necessity!! When a game didn't come with a map you bet your ass we would draw it out!! And I've done exactly that for this game aswell.. In fact Mystery lake alone took me 25 pages to complete!

I can also say no matter what kind of map the game comes with it will NEVER be as detailed as the one you can create! All the different spawns/bunkers etc could never be on the map! I for one am VERY glad the game does not have one you can carry around with you.. Don't get me wrong a "rough" map on a wall could be a great touch.. And by rough it obviously couldn't be accurate with all the weather changes etc.

If I get enough PMs ill post my map(s) on here somewheres so far ML and CH are done and I almost done PV.. They are really detailed I think.. And so far everything I've found from bodies to saplings have be DRAWN on them..