What is your final straw?

[Tejas_Stalker]

What is your final straw? What is the one item that you run out of that spells your doom or demise?

Before I got to know the Game better, I assumed that the lack of food, water or wood would be the first resource to run out and be the end of the Player. However we all know there is an endless supply of food and it's actually the loss of a knife or hatchet to remove it from a carcass that is the real problem. Eventually all the knives and hatchets wear out, so is Scrap Metal being the needed for repair that could be the needed resource and the lack of that dooms the Player? As you can forage endless wood, is it being able to melt snow and boil water the problem once all the matches, fire-starters and magnifying glasses wear out? Is it the lack of Cloth where you can no longer repair your clothes and succumb to the cold the real killer?

It would seem to me a knife could be made from other sources as there are structures, railroad cars, metal lockers and other things to salvage. However even those are limited so they're only a temporary source. There are methods to make a fire without the previously mentioned tools but they are not part of the Game. Likewise leather from Deer could substitute for Cloth on some items but we are limited to boots. My point is not to discuss the shortfalls of the Game or substitutes for those items.

I just wanted to know from those that played a really long Game how long you made it to ( in days ) and what was the one item that got exhausted that resulted in your failure to continue further. Thanks ahead of time to those that answer.

[bethany]

Great question, thanks!

Curious to see what kind of answers you get. I'm a little ashamed I haven't survived long enough to worry about it myself...

[Scyzara]

Most people consider the lack of means to start a fire the final cause of death in endgame. (Without sun no magnifying lens, thus no thaw corpses and no meat for food).

Interestingly, I personally will probably run out of antiseptic&antibiotics before my last firestriker is broken or my last scrap metal used. Thus - unless I screw up and get killed by wolves/blizzards ofc. - my poor Anna is probably going to succumb to an infection somewhere around day 650 or so.^^

Seems I froliced around way too much with our lovely omnipresent furry friends during early and mid-game!

[thinair]

very last thing to run out in my play of style, would probably be a knife... and once knife is gone it is not a huge problem, because magny glass DOES NOT DECAY... so can start fire near frozen wildlife to warm it up and then harvest it. Tested in .218v, staker... i repeat, magny glass do not decay, started 3 fires in a row and magny glass stayed at same %. So perma life is possible.

What character would still have is/are : magny glass, rabbit mittens, maybe deer boots.... and of course food and water... then guts, leather, wood, tinder, rabbit pelts. But to get to that point, is a very long road. In my 523 days run on stalker in PV map only, the first thing to run out was matches at around 500 days. Started new run, currently 220 days in pv only, but game is so boring, i rarely play. I might try to reach a point of everything running out during the next update of the new map, but once again it will be almost summer time and i doubt i'll put that much time into the game.

[Scyzara]

very last thing to run out in my play of style, would probably be a knife... and once knife is gone it is not a huge problem, because magny glass DOES NOT DECAY... so can start fire near frozen wildlife to warm it up and then harvest it. Tested in .218v, staker... i repeat, magny glass do not decay, started 3 fires in a row and magny glass stayed at same %. So perma life is possible.

I'm aware that the lens doesn't decay.

But at some point (even if it's day 1000+ for someone) you will run out of scrap metal and thus means to repair your last knife or hatchet. From this point onwards, you will have to harvest meat only by hand, which is impossible on frozen carcasses.

Now imagine you're unlucky for a few days in a row - no sun at all during the day, so you can't use your lens. Or you manage to start a fire, then the weather changes while you harvest your first rabbit and a blizzard blows out your fire. Sooner or later, you will inevitably get unlucky (at least under Stalker weather conditions) and starve in front of X frozen carcasses.^^

I'm currently on a day 500 Stalker game without a lens, but - fortunately - two firestrikes left. One at 95%, a second one at 60%. Leaves me about 65-75 fires to make, which would in theory last for an 800+ days run, easily (one fire/5days or something). Even afterwards, I could keep a fire burning for another few hundreds of days (giant wood reserves), I guess.

But that doesn't change the fact that I will sooner or later fail to outrun a wolf and thus die because of an infection.^^

I'm not hibernating and run around quite a lot outside while searching for deer - there's a rather high possibility for me to get attacked by a wolf, either because I estimate distances between an eating wolf and a building wrong or because I get jumped accidentally. The latter doesn't happen very often, but it's a permanent danger one always has to be aware of.^^

Whoever finds a solution for this "antiseptic+antibiotic are limited ressources" problem, gains my unlimitted respect!

Until then, the TLD sandbox doesn't allow infinite survival, at least not for my playstyle. And I couldn't stand a less risky style due to boredom. ^^

(Please don't tell me to live solely on rabbits - once you stop harvesting deer, you'll sooner or later run out of guts to craft snares. I'm usually running a bit short of guts even now while I harvest wolves and deer regularly - I use the guts to craft clothes and new snares).

PS: Living on bears (which I would gladly do because it's both exciting and bullet-efficient) is no option either as they don't respawn in my old savegame.^^

[thinair]

I'm aware that the lens doesn't decay.

But at some point (even if it's day 1000+ for someone) you will run out of scrap metal and thus means to repair your last knife or hatchet. From this point onwards, you will have to harvest meat only by hand, which is impossible on frozen carcasses.

Now imagine you're unlucky for a few days in a row - no sun at all during the day, so you can't use your lens. Or you manage to start a fire, then the weather changes while you harvest your first rabbit and a blizzard blows out your fire. Sooner or later, you will inevitably get unlucky (at least under Stalker weather conditions) and starve in front of X frozen carcasses.^^

Yeah thats a possibility, but a low one... i mean getting caught in crazy blizzards for 2-3 days straight, etc. I put 190 hours of playtime, and between 12 to 8 there is quite often a window in which is possible to start fire and not to get it blown out... and there is never blizzard that last 8 hours, so there is no way that caught rabbit will be frozen... i think up to 50% frozen, its possible to harvest with hands, is it?

But overall perma life is hard. Stealing dear from wolf also can be challenging too, unless there is near-by building... which in my case there is not. PV farmstead and field around is actually a bit too far. Best thing once wolf coat, deer boots and mittens is made, to go for the bear all the time. 1 shot 1 bear = a lot of meat and a lot of guts. Guts for the long run. Overall, i think it is still do-able... i mean perma life. Tough but do-able. For example, im 220 days in, 32 bullets left, so 32 bears... and i think bear yields 10 guts? So thats 320 guts. By the time i'm out of bullets, then i can start making snares, of course i would not have all 320 guts, but at least 250... that's 250 snares. Honestly, with my play of style i think i can reach 1500 days on pv alone.

edit: 32 bullets for me = ~ 1200 days of food, so with bullets alone i can get to 1420 days. I know i would be out of matches at around 400-600 days, but to cook the meat up i can easily use barn next to PV farmstead, its warm place plus there are spots that basically get rids of high winds so no possibility to get fire blown out. After bullets run out, then all the snares will be left... only from ~1400 day i will be challenged, and thats only on playing 1 map.

[BigJayA]

Sewing kits tend to run dry leaving me in rags. I don't usually let a blizzard stop me from moving about so i'm constantly repairing my clothes. It tends to lead to shorter runs but there is something quite entertaining about traveling under less than ideal conditions such as blizzards or darkness.

[mellow_swe]

Definitely antiseptic/tree beard lichen.

Without it, no engaging wolves once you run out of bullets.

No engaging wolves, no deer carcasses, gut, meat, wolf pelts.

No gut, no snares or fishing line.

Basically no way of getting food, apart from the odd time that a wolf leaves a deer carcass without eating everything (bug?).

Been trying to simulate the endgame by playing without using any non-renewable resources and only eating calories from meat or plants.

I think that even without the magnifying glass, matches would not be a problem. You just keep a fire going non-stop.

The one item that makes the biggest difference for me in that situation though is the hatchet, because it is useful in so many ways.

1. Obviously foraging for wood.

Foraging by hand takes 30 minutes for one piece of fir firewood in nice weather/daytime. To keep a fire going non-stop you need 16 pieces per day which means 8 hours of foraging in good weather. Tough to manage even if you had nothing else to do in the day. With a hatchet time is cut to 12 minutes or 3 hours 12 minutes for the 16 pieces, which is much more manageable.

2. Fighting wolves.

Not only does a weapon (hatchet, pry bar, knife) increase the damage to the wolf, helping you to maintain your condition better, but it also means the wolf will bleed out after one fight. When fighting wolves by hand i usually drop to around 50% before the wolf's condition is low enough to have it flee. Then it is important to follow the wolf and engage again before using bandage/antiseptic to avoid wasting another set. Sometimes this is hard to do and the wolf simply runs too far too fast. If you can't find the wolf again it will not bleed out. In that case the bandage/antiseptic is at best not used optimally and at worst completely wasted.

3. Harvesting frozen carcasses.

Not only does it speed up the harvesting process (the hatchet is actually better at harvesting meat from a frozen carcass than a knife) but without a tool the only way is to thaw out the carcass before harvesting.

This becomes even more important as bullets run out and you're fighting wolves by hand. If your condition is low after a fight you can just retreat to a house and rest up, return the next day and harvest the meat and guts/pelt. Should the weather turn bad during the harvest, same thing. Also catching rabbits require precise timing if you want to harvest them before they freeze leaving you at risk to wolves and adverse weather.

4. Opening ice fishing holes.

Obviously if you don't have any scrap metal or fishing gear it is not possible to fish anyway but even with those items you need a tool to open up the hole in the ice.

So all in all I would say that the hatchet is the most useful item in the game but antiseptic/tree beard lichen is the thing that I would run out of first and imo the only thing that currently stands in the way of infinite survival (at least in theory).

[AmericanSteel]

Right now there is no way to construct tools beyond fishing hooks and line. We are then left to repair existing tools with spare parts. This is all a bit wacky. I have a hatchet passed down to me from my grandfather, to my father to me. It is in my car. It has a heavy loop with a hammer like back back and a thinner cutting front. While the handle has been replaced a few time, the head remains. I just sharpen it before I use it. I have a gurkha knife made of steel (and large hunk for chert just in case) that I bought when I got out of high school (over 20 years ago). I sharpen the blade occasionally, though it is not a skinning knife. I used the knife religiously while in the service and every time I go outdoors. Neither has given me a bit of problems, even in windchill down to -50 deg F.

Not saying you cannot break a blade or put a serious notch in an axe head. However, if you are just using your tools for what they were meant for, sharpen them and keep them maintained... they should like a lifetime (if not more). I wish the percentage would just refer to maintaining knives/axes. An oil stone would give a really fine edge to either. A wet stone gives a good edge too. You can also use certain types of stone to put an edge on a blade, but I would not use on on anything other than an axe. If the user failed to maintain an edge, then they are going to be using more force to get the job done. A dull blade is WAY more dangerous and susceptible to breaking than a sharp one. I think one you get into the yellow, you are going to need to spend a lot more time fixing it up. Once you force the weapon into the red, you might need a new handle. Taking it past red simply breaks the blade due to neglect and mis-use.

That aside, we could also knap some stones for an edge (flint and chert being great for this). All we need is a piece of leather (hey hey, we have that) and another tool to knap with. Sometimes its bone or an antler, while other times its it just another rock. This all depends on how we are knapping and what the end tool intends to be. I use a buck antler and leather to knap spear and arrow points. While if I need a large surface, another rock will do. You can knap a stone tool that can easily shave the hair off your arm. While I think skinning would be slower, it still could be done. You can also knap wedge heads to afix to a "Y" in a piece of wood (with gut or rawhide) to make a study axe. It has to be knapped a lot to keep the edge and they wear out easily... it is still a tool we could use in place of a hatchet. Knapping is also a time sink and a resource hog. You have to go get the right stone (I use to look in creeks in Austin and up in the hill country in Arkansas) first. Break off a few flakes out in the field to see if it will hold up and then take it back to camp. Now you need handles or shafts (unless you are making a palm blade where the rough but of rock is pressed to your palm and the edge is aligned with your fingers... like holding a clam). You then have to make rough tools to clean up the handle/shafts and then you start making points, blades, etc.

If primitive man could make it through the ice age using stone tools as a hunter gatherer (or even the Inuits), we should be able to do too. Bone arrow heads, bone hafts, bone harpoon heads, knapped stone for blades and points, and wood for halfs and handles.... it can all be done. I find this far more realistic than taking spare parts from a can opener to fix hatchet (along with a piece of hardwood) or spare parts from a pry bar to fix a rifle. We have started to take hides and pelts to make selective clothing. Take it to the next step.

If the devs will allow us to make tools, I think their might not be a single final straw. The player is probably going to have a string of bad luck when there were not as prepared as they ought to be. It ends up killing them either hunkered down in their home or making a go for it outside, overcome by nature in the end.

[Tejas_Stalker]

Yep. I thought it was quite ridiculous that I lost over 10% of my knife skinning a single Deer. Come across 3 Deer in 3 days and your knife is gone. I understand some things should degrade but the rate is excessive, unrealistic and non-immersive. It needs to be adjusted because when it's this bad it reminds you that you're not in a real life simulation but a fairy tale game.

[BigJayA]

If we could make our own tools then the game could be made to be much more punishing in other ways. Longer, darker nights for example. Perhaps a more realistic temperature control in that if you sweat (due to wearing too much while doing too much) then your inner layer gets wet and you have to deal with the consequences. Ultimately I would like to see the game progress to where there is no limit to how long you can survive but surviving day to day being a very difficult and perilous task.