Torch mechanic rework

[Stranzua]

Right now, we can just pull a torch out of a fire for the cost of a stick, and I'm not complaining, but it is very convenient. It makes me wonder if the developers intend to change this at some point because I never had to craft a torch in the hundreds of hours that I've played this game. So, if that were the case, how would you feel about changing how torches work, and how would you change it? Or, would you just keep it the way it is? 

1. From now on, pulling torches from the fire are now linked to the fire skill and at level 1 they are all 15%. Every level increases the strength of the torches by 6%.

2. Tree Resin---A new crafting material found all across Great Bear Island that allows you to make stronger longer lasting torches.

3. Candles--Candles are now found in certain places like churches, cemeteries, etc. They offer anywhere from 4 hours to 72 hours of light. They offer a small longer lasting alternative light source to navigate through the pitch-black darkness. Lighting 4 candles in close proximity will allow you to do repairs, mend clothing, research books, etc. Can be crafted using 'whale blubber' exclusively found in Desolation Point, and 'wick'. You can also use the candle to light a torch and use the torch to light a fire, and vice versa, completely maximizing the value of each match. Only works in actual shelters and does not work outside or in caves(without loading screens).

4. Crafting torches and candles now increases your fire skill.

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Stranzua

[Razum]

https://hinterlandforums.com/forums/topic/19526-nerf-the-torch-bring-back-the-brand/
https://hinterlandforums.com/forums/topic/41956-firebrands-should-return/
https://hinterlandforums.com/forums/topic/23298-the-return-of-the-brand/

Just to gather the discussions already done about this. Torches are op. The ability to chain torches - just pulling as many torches out of a fire as you want and then having light for as long as you want - should be removed. Personally I play with the non-op-torches mod, which breaks torches on extinguish when under 50%. When not being able to pull torches out of the fire that are over 50%, you can't stack torches, because you can't reignite them. That's more a band aid then a solution.

I think the best way is to bring brands back. When you pull something out of the fire it's nothing like a torch (with cloth and oil), it's just a stick. Maybe you can't even pull a burning stick out but rather make a stick from you inventory burn. Either way, such a brand can be used to light another fire, scare away wolves or walk through a cave. But it burns much more shortly than a torch and can't be reignited or just by fire. But you can put it into a fire which gives it heat and burn time proportional to the condition of the brand.

Torches are a very good idea (I think there was some discussion, too, but I'm too lazy to search them out). For that there's also a mod, so you could use that in the meantime.

[Razum]

*Candles. I mean candles, lol. Candles are a very good idea.

[Stranzua]

Yeah, I'm playing on console so I can't use mods. It does sound like there are a lot of great mods out there though.

Anyways, I feel like this thread is a little different than the threads you shared. When I was writing this, I was thinking about 4 things. 1. Torches are OP. 2. Right now, there is no reason to craft torches. 3. The fire skill levels up a lot slower than cooking and carcass harvesting. 4. Desolation Point can use SOMETHING region specific(I have a few suggestions for this region. The materials to craft candles is one of them.)

This is the first time I have ever heard of brands. Sounds interesting. Personally, I don't have a problem pulling torches from fires and being able to relight them. However, I'm definitely not against the idea of removing the ability to relight them. Either way, my suggestion is to make the torch or brand weaker at the beginning of the game by tying it to the fire skill. In my opinion, it can work either way. They can even make it so that fire pulled torches can only be relit after reaching fire skill level 4 or 5. That could work too.

On top of that, if crafting a torch increases the fire skill, then it gives us an incentive to craft torches. If fire pulled torches are all 15% at level 1, then people would have to use up more carrying capacity if they want to chain torches anymore. They can always make crafted torches lighter too. This is why I suggested a new crafting material like tree resin/pine sap. If they do change the torch mechanic, then we can use a couple ways to craft different torches with varying blueprints\burn times. 

Then, on top of all of that, I like the idea of adding candles to the game. This game gets DARK at times and it's deadly. If we can no longer pull an infinite amount of torches out of the fire and have to craft them a lot more, candles can help us extend the life of the flame. I also thought that stacking the light from multiple candles to do certain tasks was cool also. 

Talking about the fire skill, I also have another small suggestion. After tinder becomes optional, why not just allow us to use it as fuel? Even if it's only 1 or 2 minutes then at least all of those cat tail heads, tinder plugs, and papers can still be used for something other than breadcrumbs. 

 

 

[Serenity]

I agree about brands. It was so long ago that I didn't play with them much, but it's just a better mechanic and more immersive. People quickly got used to the torches, but I never really understood why it was changed.

I also never really craft torches. You kind find some 100% torches in the world. And with long fires you can pull out some pretty good torches that last a while.

[FlamingFuball]

I dunno, at this point I feel like chaining torches is an integral part of gameplay. Sure, it's sort of exploit-y but the game is well balanced around that "exploit," grabbing a pile of torches at every opportunity on interloper is just one of the essential strategies you learn, and it's a good way to keep warm and not waste matches. Also, torches are more important in early game than late game, and frankly if we're going to make things harder, it should be the mid/late game to keep things interesting over time, rather than making early game even harder. Handcrafted torches are admittedly useless, and they should be buffed, but I don't think fire-pull torches need to be nerfed.

[Serenity]

Chaining torches is not essential at all. I almost never do it and I'm doing fine. Sometimes for long trips to certain places and when I know that I really need a fire somewhere. Sometimes in caves when torches are my only light source. But not as a routine wherever I go. I find that boring and too mechanical. You can also find YouTubers / streamers who rarely do it.

Also, another trick that would be nerfed is lighting a torch and then using it to light fires. Thus bypassing the fire starting chance altogether. That improves the use of books and accelerant. And gives some more incentive to crafting torches.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Serenity

[FlamingFuball]

1 hour ago, Serenity said:

Chaining torches is not essential at all. I almost never do it and I'm doing fine. Sometimes for long trips to certain places and when I know that I really need a fire somewhere. Sometimes in caves when torches are my only light source. But not as a routine wherever I go. I find that boring and too mechanical. You can also find YouTubers / streamers who rarely do it.

Also, another trick that would be nerfed is lighting a torch and then using it to light fires. Thus bypassing the fire starting chance altogether. That improves the use of books and accelerant. And gives some more incentive to crafting torches.

I'll admit I'm a bit new to interloper, so maybe I'm just not at the level yet where I'm comfortable surviving without torch-chaining for security. 😅

I could get behind reintroducing brands, I didn't play back when they were around, but they seems like a good idea that would be more realistic.

[Serenity]

Well, you're not alone. Far from it. Tons of people act like it's this thing you absolutely have to do to survive on Interloper. instead of something that's situationaly useful. I just don't agree and it's not my experience. I'm probably in the minority there.

[Stranzua]

I love the idea of knowing the value of each match and maximizing it's value by lighting torches, and then using those torches to light fires. This is also why I love the idea of candles and extending the life of the flame even longer. Personally, I don't mind pulling torches from fires, but I also feel like this area of the game offers an opportunity for improvement. For example, above I suggest tying the ability to pull torches from fires to the fire skill. If fire pulled torches are all 15% at level 1, then maybe all fire pulled torches should also have a chance of just blowing out. This way things like books and accelerant still have value, and you are encouraged to craft torches and use those torches to chain or light fires instead. On top of that, you will still be able to chain fire pulled torches if you want, but you will also have to carry more while also worrying that they might blow out. They are technically just a stick after all. (As you level up the fire skill, the strength of fire pulled torches would increase while their chance of blowing out decreases)

Of course, this would also require a new resource that allows us to craft torches regularly. My suggestion was tree resin or pine sap. We would have to be able to spawn on Interloper, for example, and have a decent chance of finding the resources to craft torches ASAP. 

[conanjaguar]

5 hours ago, Serenity said:

Chaining torches is not essential at all

Except for us sadomasochists who like to play single-region “snowball” challenges where matches are limited, weapons are not an option, and a single wolf struggle spells a death sentence…

[Razum]

Well, my point is: Why do it have to be torches which are pulled out of the fire? Surely, you pull something out of the fire, but why are that the same item that you can craft with clothes. I would make it just a different item (brands), which offers wild balancing options. You don't have to wildly nerf 'pull stuff out of the fire', but there are the mentioned things - chaining and fire chance - which are basically op. Not per se, but for items you pull out of fire where you just put sticks in.

Torches then could have completely different properties - like the fire chance. Brands then would not be reignitable, but are still torches in every other aspect.