What made this game great? Scarcity & dilemma's!

[TWM]

Call me an old time player; a veteran of the pastel winter outback if you will. I picked up the Long Dark in februari 2015 and been playing it ever since.

Back then we only had one map, Mystery Lake. When later maps (first Coastal Town, then Pleasant Valley) came out, it wasn't just a struggle to get there, but if you managed to get yourself killed, you'd had to start all the way back in Mystery Lake and get yourself prepped for the big journey all over again.

When supplies were sparse

One aspect that greatly enhanced the challenge of the game, was that resources were scarce, which meant that every find felt like it could mean the difference between life or death. For instance, you didn't have sticks lying all over the place. No, if you wanted a fire, you'd need to either find some piece of wood, break down some furniture, or chop down a branch. Which meant that finding an axe was priority no.1.

But the axe would break down, so you'd have to repair it. We didn't have whetstones back then, mind you. One repaired the axe with a toolbox and a piece of scrap metal, which were scarce. And it could go wrong - similar to clothing repair - so then you'd be left without the means of repairing your axe. This meant that repairing a tool was a moment of suspence.

To make matters more interesting, the same applied to your rifle. We didn't use cleaning kits, but again: the toolbox. That meant the player often was forced to make hard choices: do I repair the gun in order to defend myself, shoot game & provide food, or do I repair the hatchett, which I need to chop wood & make water, as well as to harvest frozen carcasses effectively. And what about the knife (same thing, you repair it with the toolbox).

Creating dilemma's

There were more instances where the player was put before such dilemma's, just by account of the scarcity of resources: do I use my last piece of cloth to try and repair my pants or do I save if to be able to craft bandages? Do I use the flare as a lightsource or save it to be able to defend myself against wolves. Do I use the birch bark as tinder or save it to craft some tea? Do I save the oil to fill the lamp or craft a torch to maybe fight off a wolf? Do I use the cured gut to craft a snare or make some fishing line?

The more pressing the choice was, the more anxious one felt about it. But exactly that created suspense.

Unearned accomplishments

With all the maps, extra additions, options & resources, that sense of scarcity seems gone for the most part. Sure, you can play on Interloper or design your own 'hard mode', but it just feels like handicapping yourself. Furthermore, it still doesn't take away from the fact that once you're settled, the world is your oyster.

You want to hunt some rabbits? Just pick up a rock from anywhere. So why even bother crafting a snare? The snare used to be a vital piece of kit to eek out a living. Now it's just the lazy man's way to catch some rabbits.

You need to build a fire to make some water? Just pick up sticks as you go. Heck, if you pick up every stick you find, even on Interloper, you can find enough to keep a fire burning through most if not all of the night. (However, when you had to spend half a day to find resources to fix your one hatchett in order to keep chopping wood, for which one had to venture ever further from basecamp, thus inviting danger, that sip of water felt earned.)

You need some scrap metal? Just take a hacksaw and start demolishing one of the many metal objects in the game. Not that you'll need to often. You'll do it once or twice to craft some arrowheads, which are reusable anyway. Maybe you'll create some extra scrap to repair the hacksaw, which is one of the few instances you'll actually need the toolbox.

Less is more, more is less

So basically, by introducing an abundance of resources, the developers have taken away the hard dilemma's the player once faced. And in so doing they've diminished the amount of challenge & suspense the Long Dark had to offer. I can see the reasons behind adding new stuff, but as fun as The Long Dark still is for me, I think it was to the detriment of the sandbox experience. It made a great, gripping game into a solid, decent game. Still engaging, but... I'm just going to say it: I feel it used to be more compelling than it is now.

Part of it seems to be that the Sandbox originally wasn't intended as the main feature. It was more of a way to keep players interested and test out game mechanics while story mode was in development. And story mode demands places that feel real, lived in. So then you get Milton with dozens of houses. A whole village was added to Pleasant Valley to facilitate a mission in the story.

Sandbox might just be the main feature

Thing is though, for a lot (if not most) of the players, the Sandbox is the main attraction. Just watch the dozens upon dozens of video streams of people playing the Long Dark. They aren't showcasing Story Mode. They're showcasing how long they can survive.

I get that The Long Dark isn't going to revert to the days of scarcity. It simply isn't feasible. One could play earlier versions of the game I suppose, and I'd recommend trying it out for players who want a direct experience for what I've been talking about here. 

Some conclusions

Anyway, ssome general principles can be inferred, which may be worthwile to anyone who's inspired to develop a game like this.

• Scarcity of resources in combination with limited solutions create dilemma's on how to spend supplies.
• The more pressing the dilemma's, the more urgent choices become, generating suspense.
• The more urgent the choices, the more impactful & thus the more meaningful these choices feel.
• The more trouble one has to go to achieve even daily chores, the more these achievements feel like they're earned & thus are meaningful
• Therefore, calibrating the right amount of limitation to the player's resources & options is key.

Just 2 cents of an old time player...

[xanna]

I enjoy those sorts of dilemmas, and scarcity is a vibe I'm really looking for in my game, so I play a custom mode that creates as much scarcity as it can.

I'm sure other player enjoy different aspects and maximise those in their play.

[odizzido]

I am only interested in story mode personally. You end up "winning" the sandbox mode in a matter of days so it doesn't have much appeal.

[TWM]

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Posted 9 hours ago

I am only interested in story mode personally. You end up "winning" the sandbox mode in a matter of days so it doesn't have much appeal.

Doesn't that buttress the very point I'm making though? As soon as you obtain all the things you need to survive, you're basically settled for life. You could do fifty days, a hundred days, two hundred, pretty much easy peasy.

But what if surviving kept on being a challenge, even if you had enough clothing and all essential tools? Imagine holding on for life to the only rifle you're going to get. You're down to six bullets. You have to venture out further and further to find the odd deer. Repairs are costly, because all mechanical tools are repaired with the tool box and scrap metal is hard to find.

Eventually you'd be forced to explore new, dangerous regions, just in order to survive another week. Now, wouldn't that make for a more exciting experience?

[xanna]

I would love a mode like what you describe. I often wish there was a scarcity setting between 'one per region' and 'none at all', forcing long periods of play looking for tools over several regions.

I don't think it's in any objective way better, though. TLD has broad appeal and has yielded a variety of different playstyles, the custom modes are well-used and popular. I agree with you about what kind of experience I find enjoyable, but I personally don't feel any criticism of Hinterland for making TLD what it currently is.

[Kranium]

The way the game is now, you need (IMHO, to be fair) [more] unrealistic artificial limitations imposed. While there are other things that could help with this but aren't in the game (yet, anyway). Anywhooo:

 

AXE: Axes do break. But not the head. That's almost impossible. It's always the wooden handle which breaks (very common if you overstrike - that is, reaching too far so the blade misses & the handle is all that hits the log). I think you should have to whittle yourself a new handle. Can't use just any wood, either. Should have to use the new tree now in the game, cut a chunk out of a big limb, cure it, carve it. Time consuming. Sharpening is not a big deal; I've used a rock to do a quick nick repair in the bush, more than once.

 

There's plenty of dilemmas to be had in an IRL situation, but most are glossed over / overlooked in the game. Scaricity of man-made resources honestly wouldn't be much of a problem IRL (I mean, c'mon, tinned food can last decades & the tools found in this game are stoopid common out here, outside of flares/flare guns but perhaps those are common on boats on the coast [I live inland]). And yet we don't even have Bic lighters, sleds, tarps/tents, skis, snowshoes, you can't even try rubbing 2 sticks together... But what I feel is too common is passive wildlife for food sources. Rabbits, deer, and especially fish are too easy. Perhaps making them more scarce would work? I also think the animal AI is horrible, especially regarding the predators. Some tweaks could be made there which could really change things.

 

Fire fuel found in the snow should be wet & not burn well and/or needs to dry. Putting too much wood in a fire at once (esp. if wet) should smother the fire. Lower hanging dry branches should be a thing on conifers, the only dry sticks to be found outside.

 

The biggest hindrance should be one's own long term energy reserves / fitness. NOt sure how ti implement that exactly, but it's what people in real-life similar situations suffer from. It's really not in the game at all. Sleep one night, one decent meal, and BAM you're as healthy as an elite athlete just like that. That's not how it works. I'd like a 5th stat, that's sort of an overall energy bar which is like a "7 day rolling average" of other stats + injuries. Takes much, much longer to recharge. If you don't know what I'm getting at, you can see the effects in some of those survival shows that are out there now. After a week or two many folks barely have enough energy to leave their shelter at all. It takes days of ideal conditions to come back from that.

 

lost my train of thought, dammit. I like the OPs points though, got me thinking... Gotta go outside and tend to horses now... My main thought was simply that it's not scarcity in & of itself, it's how things are implemented & certain omissions.

[hozz1235]

As with pretty much all games these days, the "difficulty" needs to be adjustable to suit a variety of playstyles and preferences.  I believe the built-in difficulties coupled with Custom make this VERY flexible.  If you've tweaked settings as far as they can go and it's still too easy, your only choice is to put limits on yourself in the game (e.g. once you find a rifle, break down any others you find).  There are many posts where users have done this and posted their "settings".

[Kranium]

Custom settings aren't a solution if you care about feats & achievements, unfortunately. Telling people to use Custom settings is (for many, not everyone) like telling console players to use mods.

[hozz1235]

47 minutes ago, Kranium said:

Telling people to use Custom settings is (for many, not everyone) like telling console players to use mods.

?
It's impossible for console players to use mods (afaik).  Everyone can use Custom (if they choose).

[Semple Fi]

A lot of this sounds like real life… Can’t have your cake and eat it too. Buying a car, you might get all the features you want - but not the color.  Purchasing a home in the neighborhood you want with all the amenities built in - but not in your price range.  Using mods to make the game stupid difficult - but can’t get achievements.  Making your own challenge “settings” and having the commitment to break down any other firearm found - or making HNTRLND do it for you…
And so on, and so forth. 

[Kranium]

7 hours ago, hozz1235 said:

?
It's impossible for console players to use mods (afaik).  Everyone can use Custom (if they choose).

It's impossible to use Custom & get Feats and Achievements. It's why I never used Custom until I accomplished every single F&A first. And I'm far from alone. That's all. (Semple Fi gets it 🙂)

Edited December 29, 2022 by Kranium

[hozz1235]

9 hours ago, Kranium said:

It's impossible to use Custom & get Feats and Achievements. It's why I never used Custom until I accomplished every single F&A first. And I'm far from alone. That's all. (Semple Fi gets it 🙂)

Correct, if you are after Feats & Achs, you will not get those with Custom (doesn't mean you still can't use it!).  I was using both interchangeably.