suggestion Skis and Skiing

[Thunderfingers]

So I've been playing the Nomad Challenge and was starting to think about how much more exciting it would be to have Skis in the game. And so I came up with some Ideas how to implement that into the game in a way that makes sense and doesn't necessarily break the game.

 

So first off Skis would be more of a late game Item or only suited for certain playstyles /tasks. In order to not break the game or make it too easy they should be more of a high risk/ high reward kind of thing. First off Skis are heavy and only useful in plains or downhill and should require the player to take them off if the terrain isn't suitable for them adding a good few kg to your backpack (it might also make sense to limit how much stuff you can carry while using skis). Secondly they would require a lot of maintenance and also you would need additional equipment like Ski Boots and Ski Poles which also need to be tended to from time to time. Lastly traveling by Ski would raise potential injury quite significantly and requires you to know the area you traversing quite well in order to avoid cliffs and ledges. 

 

The benefits of course are that you can traverse certain areas much quicker and maybe also more silently. Again this is thought for light travel/ scouting potentially hunting but not much more. As for movement I would differentiate between movement in plains and downhill.

In Plains you could use a sort of quicktime Event (similar to wolf attacks) To get you going from a standing position. This would require quite a lot of stamina but once you gained enough momentum you just have to press a button occasionally to keep going (you could also add some rhythm mechanics to that meaning that if you miss a button press you might fall over). While gliding you could regenerate a bit of stamina allowing for potentially longer travels as well. But I would also add a system that if you hit a rock or go over grounds that aren't snow the skiers could be damaged and that there is a chance for the player to fall over potentially suffering injuries (this could also be tied to the amount of stuff you carry with you, meaning the higher the encumbrance the higher the chances for you to sprain your ankle, ... etc.). 

Downhill it would be absolutely amazing to have a very free system where you need to really go downhill in curves, manage your momentum and have to calculate how fast you can really go and how long it would take you to stop your movement in time. If you fail to do so you would fall down or trip, potentially knocking yourself out and dropping gear similar to bear or moose attack (which could be again tied to your encumbrance level for example, meaning that the more stuff you carry with you the more damage you take when you fall down).

 

What do you guys think about that? I feel having an item for better mobility would be really really nice to have and making it also increase the risks of traveling would add so much more depth to the game. Besides who wouldn't want to glide peacefully through our silent apocalypse?

 

 

[SneakySquid]

You could put furs underneath to walk up hill but it would wear then down.

[Thunderfingers]

Yeah maybe as some sort of trapper style ski that you can craft yourself late in the game (similarly tricky to build as the moose satchel or so)

[SneakySquid]

Yup.

[Dargot]

Nice idea!

And there could be human sled to place some stuff on it and draw when you are on skis

[EricTheGreat12]

Like snowshoes, skis sound like a good idea, but in the end they make no sense:

 

1- With every update that releases, people get stuck on rocks and crevasses, and many cliffs offer an instant death if you try to go down without using a rope. Adding skis will add complication to a system already filled with bugs and inescapable areas. Players bumping into rocks with their skis would be a glitchy disaster, and god knows what would happen with buildings. There isn't enough downhill areas in the game that would allow the player to go downhill with ease; Coastal Highway is really the only map where the player can go downhill without having to stop and use rope, and even then it's only a very small distance.

 

2- There is no system of snow accumulation, and therefore there is no deep snow on any map in the game. The walking and sprinting speeds are therefore fine as they are now, and skis don't need to be in the game to have a higher movement speed. Have you ever put on skis? It's a real pain in the ass to accomplish and can take a long time. And then, of course, you have to take them off afterwards. Cross Country skiing is a pain when you try to go uphill, which is why it's a lot easier to just take them off.

 

3- With all the limits built into the current maps, is there really any point is carrying a pair of skis? You would use them for a few seconds (at best), before you had to take them off. There really isn't any benefits to having skis in the game, considering that the game was not built for it. It would be a waste of weight in your inventory.

[Klobberthon]

1 hour ago, EricTheGreat12 said:

Like snowshoes, skis sound like a good idea, but in the end they make no sense:

Snowshoes and skis would make sense to me if I had to constantly trudge through a world completely covered by snow with 30kg of weight on my back.

5 hours ago, Thunderfingers said:

Besides who wouldn't want to glide peacefully through our silent apocalypse?

I would love this! And I think this would have to be exactly what skis allowed if they were to work in this game.  I can see it working if the skiing speed was typically about the same as sprinting (or even slightly less). Gaining too much speed (like on a hill) should almost certainly cause a crash. 

I think skis (or showshoes) would be a welcome alternative to the understandably limited movement options in the game, BUT only if it was kept very mild and smooth. 

[SneakySquid]

1 hour ago, EricTheGreat12 said:

There isn't enough downhill areas in the game that would allow the player to go downhill with ease; Coastal Highway is really the only map where the player can go downhill without having to stop and use rope, and even then it's only a very small distance.

 

1 hour ago, EricTheGreat12 said:

 Have you ever put on skis? It's a real pain in the ass to accomplish and can take a long time. And then, of course, you have to take them off afterwards. Cross Country skiing is a pain when you try to go uphill, which is why it's a lot easier to just take them off.

 

Ever heard about mountain skiing?

[EricTheGreat12]

1 hour ago, Klobberthon said:

Snowshoes and skis would make sense to me if I had to constantly trudge through a world completely covered by snow with 30kg of weight on my back.

You haven't addressed any of my points though, which explain why I think this wouldn't work. How about you go try to refute my points, so that we can have a constructive conversation on having skis in the Long Dark ?

 

Our character is fine walking with 30kg on his/her back. Your argument has nothing to do with the game itself, considering that you're only applying it to real-life situations.

54 minutes ago, SneakySquid said:

 

Ever heard about mountain skiing?

I have- but you're still failing to refute all my points. We have 1 mountain in the Long Dark. If you wore skis in Timberwolf Mountain, you would have to take them off every 5 minutes because you cannot climb with skis.

 

Skis serve no purpose on roads, caves, railway lines, inside buildings and the transit regions, which means that already a good portion of the game's island map cannot use them. Like it shows in the image you posted, you would need a flat surface in order to take advantage of the mechanic. There is no map, currently in the Long Dark, that would be capable of utilizing a ski mechanic the way that you wish for it to be implemented.

[Klobberthon]

1 hour ago, EricTheGreat12 said:

You haven't addressed any of my points though, which explain why I think this wouldn't work. How about you go try to refute my points, so that we can have a constructive conversation on having skis in the Long Dark ?

Our character is fine walking with 30kg on his/her back. Your argument has nothing to do with the game itself, considering that you're only applying it to real-life situations.

Nobody is required to respond to your points in order to have their own opinion.  However, I will give a few of my thoughts on the matter.  Your 3 points are kind of unfocused and are more like 5 points, but I'll do my best.  Wall of quotes and text incoming!

4 hours ago, EricTheGreat12 said:

Like snowshoes, skis sound like a good idea, but in the end they make no sense:

 

1- With every update that releases, people get stuck on rocks and crevasses, and many cliffs offer an instant death if you try to go down without using a rope. Adding skis will add complication to a system already filled with bugs and inescapable areas. Players bumping into rocks with their skis would be a glitchy disaster, and god knows what would happen with buildings.

Valid points.  Introduction to an entirely new movement system, as described, would indeed cause technical issues.  Like I said in my post though, skis (or snowshoes) wouldn't necessarily have to mean racing downhill or traveling at high speed.

4 hours ago, EricTheGreat12 said:

There isn't enough downhill areas in the game that would allow the player to go downhill with ease; Coastal Highway is really the only map where the player can go downhill without having to stop and use rope, and even then it's only a very small distance.

 

Again, I don't think this is necessarily a barrier for the idea of adding a new method of movement.

4 hours ago, EricTheGreat12 said:

2- There is no system of snow accumulation, and therefore there is no deep snow on any map in the game. The walking and sprinting speeds are therefore fine as they are now, and skis don't need to be in the game to have a higher movement speed.

A bit of a non sequitur in my opinion.  A lack of 'deep snow' doesn't mean that walking and sprinting speeds are 'fine'.  That is a purely subjective statement.  They are 'fine' in your opinion, but that doesn't mean a different speed wouldn't be enjoyable to others.

4 hours ago, EricTheGreat12 said:

Have you ever put on skis? It's a real pain in the ass to accomplish and can take a long time. And then, of course, you have to take them off afterwards. Cross Country skiing is a pain when you try to go uphill, which is why it's a lot easier to just take them off.

I thought we weren't talking about "real life situations"  And honestly.. it isn't that difficult to put on skis, especially if you're already in the boots.

4 hours ago, EricTheGreat12 said:

3- With all the limits built into the current maps, is there really any point is carrying a pair of skis? You would use them for a few seconds (at best), before you had to take them off. There really isn't any benefits to having skis in the game, considering that the game was not built for it. It would be a waste of weight in your inventory.

Again, this is subjective.  The point of carrying skis could simply be to enjoy coasting across a stretch of snow.  Like you say, there are few places where you could remain on your skis for a long period.  However, even a fairly short distance could save you energy, calories and potentially time.

 

TLDR: In the end, my opinion is that I can see how skis (or snowshoes) could be effectively implemented into the game.  The point should be efficiency of movement, rather than a great increase in speed.  Personally I would lean toward snowshoes rather than skis due to the nature of the landscape in TLD, but this doesn't mean skis flat out 'make no sense'.

Cheers!

[Thunderfingers]

16 hours ago, EricTheGreat12 said:

Like snowshoes, skis sound like a good idea, but in the end they make no sense:

 

1- With every update that releases, people get stuck on rocks and crevasses, and many cliffs offer an instant death if you try to go down without using a rope. Adding skis will add complication to a system already filled with bugs and inescapable areas. Players bumping into rocks with their skis would be a glitchy disaster, and god knows what would happen with buildings. There isn't enough downhill areas in the game that would allow the player to go downhill with ease; Coastal Highway is really the only map where the player can go downhill without having to stop and use rope, and even then it's only a very small distance.

 

1- Just because there are bugs now doesn't mean that they don't need to be addressed and fixed in the future. Besides you would try to avoid crevasses, cliffs and rocks anyway when you are skiing (and even if on foot I don't really want to take a shortcuts ingame but that's my playstyle). Sure bugs might be a problem but not one that can't be fixed.

As to your point about the game not having enough downhill areas I would make two points: firstly you can use skiers in plains as well albeit in a different fashion and there are enough areas where that could come in handy: Most of central pleasant valley with all the farmland, alongside the railtracks of mystery lake and as you mentioned coastal highway. In addition there are a lot of streets that you could follow like the one in desolation point. Of course all of that wouldn't be "classic skiing" but rather cross- country skiing. Secondly I would also disagree that there isn't enough downhill areas that would make it worthwhile. Again I Just played Nomad Challenge so I'm currently most familiar with pleasant valley environments but there are plenty of areas where skis might come in handy. Going down from Skeeters Ridge or the Radio control hut. If skis really work with momentum picking up speed while going downhill might also enable you to go short stretches uphill. This would open up a ton of new possibilities and would require a lot of skill to do.

 

16 hours ago, EricTheGreat12 said:

2- There is no system of snow accumulation, and therefore there is no deep snow on any map in the game. The walking and sprinting speeds are therefore fine as they are now, and skis don't need to be in the game to have a higher movement speed. Have you ever put on skis? It's a real pain in the ass to accomplish and can take a long time. And then, of course, you have to take them off afterwards. Cross Country skiing is a pain when you try to go uphill, which is why it's a lot easier to just take them off.

2- I dont really see any argument here besides your opinion that sprinting speeds are fine. Again my point is not so much that there is a ton of extra speed or even range of travel but new forms of mobility. And picking up on other Threads here in the forum: Putting on skis is nearly not as much pain in the ass as harvesting a frozen carcass or forging an axe. As for cross- country skiing uphill I agree but again if you can pick up some momentum downhill going uphill for short stretches is a piece of cake. But fair enough no one will try to scale a mountain with skis. That would also kind of miss the point here. Again it would be useful down-hill or cross-country style skiing in plains. This is not just to limit their effectiveness in order to keep the game balanced but again to emphasize that skis CAN be very useful in certain scenarios and will require you to plan ahead your trips.

16 hours ago, EricTheGreat12 said:

3- With all the limits built into the current maps, is there really any point is carrying a pair of skis? You would use them for a few seconds (at best), before you had to take them off. There really isn't any benefits to having skis in the game, considering that the game was not built for it. It would be a waste of weight in your inventory.

3- Well that would depend on the implementation of such an item into the game. And of course on the setting, environments, goals and playstyles. They might not make a lot of sense If you try to go up a mountain but when you try to get across plains faster or you want to go downhill this would be indeed handy.

[EricTheGreat12]

20 hours ago, Klobberthon said:

TLDR: In the end, my opinion is that I can see how skis (or snowshoes) could be effectively implemented into the game.  The point should be efficiency of movement, rather than a great increase in speed.  Personally I would lean toward snowshoes rather than skis due to the nature of the landscape in TLD, but this doesn't mean skis flat out 'make no sense'.

Cheers!

Snowshoes are worn so that we can walk on deep snow. There is no deep snow in the Long Dark.

Guten Tag !

20 hours ago, Klobberthon said:

Valid points.  Introduction to an entirely new movement system, as described, would indeed cause technical issues.  Like I said in my post though, skis (or snowshoes) wouldn't necessarily have to mean racing downhill or traveling at high speed.

Understandable, but a player could easily walk onto a rock or building while wearing skis, and cause a glitchy mess. It certainly won't look nice if it you walk into a big rock and your skis go right through.

20 hours ago, Klobberthon said:

A bit of a non sequitur in my opinion.  A lack of 'deep snow' doesn't mean that walking and sprinting speeds are 'fine'.  That is a purely subjective statement.  They are 'fine' in your opinion, but that doesn't mean a different speed wouldn't be enjoyable to others.

We do not have deep snow in the Long Dark. Therefore, skis would not increase your speed if you used it on flat terrain.

20 hours ago, Klobberthon said:

I thought we weren't talking about "real life situations"  And honestly.. it isn't that difficult to put on skis, especially if you're already in the boots.

Again, this is subjective.  The point of carrying skis could simply be to enjoy coasting across a stretch of snow.  Like you say, there are few places where you could remain on your skis for a long period.  However, even a fairly short distance could save you energy, calories and potentially time.

You were mentioning weight- even though the game doesn't care about the difference of 29.99 kg and 30 kg. If they were to put skis in the game they would have to simulate the action of putting on skis.

So you would have to put on the skis, do a potential quick time event in order to get the skis going, and once you arrive at the destination you have to take them off again. This is far from a time-saver.

[EricTheGreat12]

7 hours ago, Thunderfingers said:

1- Just because there are bugs now doesn't mean that they don't need to be addressed and fixed in the future. Besides you would try to avoid crevasses, cliffs and rocks anyway when you are skiing (and even if on foot I don't really want to take a shortcuts ingame but that's my playstyle). Sure bugs might be a problem but not one that can't be fixed.

There are plenty of bugs that have been fixed, yet more appear after every update. Invisible walls are a good way for the developers to make sure that players are unable to see untextured nothingness, but it's a mess because there are simple rocks in the game that you cannot walk on; they haven't even done basic first-person presence besides for the same arms, no matter what clothing you wear.

Good luck with implementing ski textures into a game that has shown no promise on that front.

7 hours ago, Thunderfingers said:

As to your point about the game not having enough downhill areas I would make two points: firstly you can use skiers in plains as well albeit in a different fashion and there are enough areas where that could come in handy: Most of central pleasant valley with all the farmland, alongside the railtracks of mystery lake and as you mentioned coastal highway. In addition there are a lot of streets that you could follow like the one in desolation point. Of course all of that wouldn't be "classic skiing" but rather cross- country skiing. Secondly I would also disagree that there isn't enough downhill areas that would make it worthwhile. Again I Just played Nomad Challenge so I'm currently most familiar with pleasant valley environments but there are plenty of areas where skis might come in handy. Going down from Skeeters Ridge or the Radio control hut. If skis really work with momentum picking up speed while going downhill might also enable you to go short stretches uphill. This would open up a ton of new possibilities and would require a lot of skill to do.

You wouldn't be able to follow the road in Desolation Point because you cannot use skis on roads that are not covered in snow; same with the highway in Coastal Highway. With the incline that allows you to go from the Radio Hut to the Highway, you would fly into the air by the time you got down there or most likely crash into the fence. It would be ridiculous, and the game is not even capable of having these physics built into it. And imagine trying to go up that hill with skis? It would be impossible, and you can only walk up a hill like that.

7 hours ago, Thunderfingers said:

2- I dont really see any argument here besides your opinion that sprinting speeds are fine. Again my point is not so much that there is a ton of extra speed or even range of travel but new forms of mobility. And picking up on other Threads here in the forum: Putting on skis is nearly not as much pain in the ass as harvesting a frozen carcass or forging an axe. As for cross- country skiing uphill I agree but again if you can pick up some momentum downhill going uphill for short stretches is a piece of cake. But fair enough no one will try to scale a mountain with skis. That would also kind of miss the point here. Again it would be useful down-hill or cross-country style skiing in plains. This is not just to limit their effectiveness in order to keep the game balanced but again to emphasize that skis CAN be very useful in certain scenarios and will require you to plan ahead your trips.

Getting food is essential in this game for your survival- wearing skis is not.

You're not going to save time with skis if you put them on, do a quick time event to get going, and then take them off a few minutes later. It's such a waste of valuable time.

7 hours ago, Thunderfingers said:

3- Well that would depend on the implementation of such an item into the game. And of course on the setting, environments, goals and playstyles. They might not make a lot of sense If you try to go up a mountain but when you try to get across plains faster or you want to go downhill this would be indeed handy.

They're not going to change the maps just because of skis. The game was not built for skis

[Klobberthon]

@EricTheGreat12 We will just have to agree to disagree on this one bud

[EricTheGreat12]

2 minutes ago, Klobberthon said:

@EricTheGreat12 We will just have to agree to disagree on this one bud

Too bad- I enjoy having big debates here on these forums, and it's even better when I do not argue with people to the point of insanity

 

I will see you.... somehwhere in the Long Dark