Custom 'Interloper' has Stalker Loot (Rugged Sentinel Update)

[Troxism]

Some background for those not familiar with Interloper: Basically the biggest difference in terms of loot from Stalker/Voyageur/Pilgrim (those are all basically the same in this regard) and Interloper is the fact that the 'major loot item pattern' is totally different. On Stalker and below you will find Hatchets/Knifes in various spawns, the Hammer basically only exists in DP/Quonset/Summit/FM Forge, and Hacksaws/Mag Lenses/Bedrolls are distributed in a much more 'set' pattern (although not 100% set). On Interloper, instead you cannot find Hatchets/Knives, and Hacksaws/Hammers/Mag Lens/Bedrolls are distributed semi randomly across all major loot locations in the world, with it being AFAIK impossible to get two in one place (This may not be 100% true in rare situations as I think there are some Mag Lens + other item spawns in some locations but it's pretty close). An example being that you find either a Hammer, Mag Lens, or Hacksaw in the TWM Hut on Interloper, never all 3. On Stalker you would always find a Hacksaw, Hatchet, and Knife there (plus a bunch of other stuff ofc), and never a Magnifying Lens or Hammer. I could give many more examples (as I know the loot tables pretty well, although not perfectly ofc), but I think the point is clear.

So this was my first thought/fear the moment I heard about custom difficulty, that this loot 'pattern' would not be a customizable setting, and it seems to be confirmed. If you play a 'custom difficulty' and set it to Interloper 'presets', it will still spawn 'Stalker and below loot' like Hatchets/Knives. You can test this pretty easily in TWM, as there is always a hatchet + knife in the cabin/stuck in the pier/boat outside it/fishing hut.

Admittedly when I tested I did change the freezing rate to Pilgrim levels and turned off aggressive wildlfie (so I could just run straight there), but if changing ANY setting from the Interloper preset voids the Interloper loot distribution this basically makes it impossible to play a customized Interloper mode.

So in the current version there doesn't really seem to be a way to play a 'custom' Interloper (example if you wanted to play Interloper but make it even HARDER by reducing condition gain further), because frankly having a Hatchet/Knife on day 1 (you can easily get both on Day 1 on any map but DP/FM if you know the Stalker and below spawn points well) basically completely changes the Interloper 'experience' and IMHO trivializes the early game.

I haven't had time to test every combination ofc, so if someone has more detailed information on how to generate an 'actual Interloper' custom difficulty mode, that would be great to hear. But at least the Interloper presets don't seem to actually do it.

 

[cekivi]

While definitely a flaw (I noticed that too) it's not a major one. I'm more excited that Pilgrim players will now have an easier transition into Voyager and eventually Stalker modes. That's a bigger win in my books.  

[Troxism]

'Not a major flaw', I would have to heavily disagree. This basically makes this new feature nearly useless for anyone who doesn't find anything below Interloper challenging at all. Yeah playing Interloper with Hatchet/Knife would be kind of fun for a bit (I am okay with custom modes allowing you to do stuff like that obviously, but you shouldn't be forced into it), but it really does fundamentally alter the experience.

Interloper already was only hard at the very very start (it's very easy if you can get established, and yes I can actually back that up, not that it is really a contested fact), and this kneecaps the difficulty of the early game down to nearly Stalker levels; Interloper already has exactly the same outdoor temps as other modes for the first 5 days giving you time to get started, and while it has more blizzards then Stalker, it also has SHORTER ones since the weather changes more often, so the difficulty of the early game is primarily having to run around getting tools to actually be able to do stuff effectively (inexperienced Interloper players often struggle with matches, but you really should never use more then a single pack of matches in an entire Interloper game, yes even a 500 day one, and yes even if you get unlucky with early firestarts a few times, if you play correctly). Having access to good tools from day 1 shortcuts that significantly, plus you get tools that do everything faster meaning less time spent outside meaning less freezing damage ect. Those tools are also lighter, and ofc save you a whole trip/firewood/time spent at the forge which again basically cuts whole days off the 'getting started' stage.

Obviously you can still play 'standard' Interloper without using the custom settings (and this does appear to work correctly at a glance), but like I said, the problem is that this makes the new options irrelevant to an Interloper player. I can agree that it's not the end of the world if you look at it across the whole playerbase (as most people never play Interloper, or play it very rarely and wouldn't really care about this), but I think you are downplaying it a little too much for those who it does actually affect. Esp since multiple other changes in the update make even 'default' Interloper easier then it was previously, meaning there is definitely a need for custom settings to make it more challenging/fresh again.

Although to be fair, it seems you can turn off all condition gain period (except stims I guess), which allows you to play a 'true hardcore' mode where you see how long you can make it without being able to 'sleep off' anything and everything. Maybe herbal tea bonus still works for that as well? But that is also a totally different 'experience' and is only fun for a few times before you basically optimise it and get bored because it would become repetitive quickly.

Edit: I guess I should also address the false dichotomy of the argument presented rather then merely rambling: I don't think anyone is arguing 'remove custom difficulty because it doesn't currently work 100% right for Interloper', so the choice isn't between 'Pilgrim players can have an easier transition' vs 'Interloper players can have custom difficulty', it's 'Should Hinterland spend time fixing this and allowing you to have a perfect replica of Interloper loot in custom difficulty modes, or spend time developing/fixing other features'. And you could definitely argue either way on that one, but either way it's a totally different debate, and would require knowledge of how much time and effort this would take to change to even begin having a serious discussion on the subject.

[Patrick Carlson]

@Troxism Please go ahead and submit a report of your observations to our bug database here: https://hinterlandgames.atlassian.net/projects/TLDP/issues

That way the tech team and can look into this and make sure everything is working as intended! Thank you. 

[Troxism]

Done. Also mentioned that this seems to affect Cargo Container loot, and the actual number of Cargo Containers in the game world (it likely also affects how many burned out buildings there are as well, and if you can get high quality clothing like Expedition Parkas but I haven't been able to conclusively test that yet).

Edit: Yeah considering I just saw Condensed Milk and Rifle Rounds on custom 'Interloper', along with Cardboard matches, none of which would ever spawn on actual Interloper, it's pretty clear it's probably just using the Stalker loot tables for everything, both pre-placed and container loot.

[Benjola]

Yes there's no Hatchet/Knife - Off/On option in custom mode and should probably be implemented.

Until then you can just ignore the hatchets and knifes and not use them or if that breaks immersion for you, use them but make the custom mode even more hardcore then Interloper ( there are few sliders on middle in Interloper mode so there's a room for making it even harder )

For me , this game update brought me back to the game because I always wanted to play Interloper with a rifle and now that's possible, and so much more.

I also prefer hatchets/Knifes OFF mode but it's not a very big deal for me.

[TerribleSurvivor]

On 8.12.2017 at 4:25 AM, Patrick Carlson said:

@Troxism Please go ahead and submit a report of your observations to our bug database here: https://hinterlandgames.atlassian.net/projects/TLDP/issues

That way the tech team and can look into this and make sure everything is working as intended! Thank you. 

I dont think that this is a bug. It´s just not an option available atm. Would be cool to see it in the future though. I am pretty sure your devs already adressed the issue

[Troxism]

It was a bug, and the 1.17 update addressed it. Setting Resource Availability to 'Low' now sets everything to Interloper loot patterns.

[cekivi]

Welcome to the forums @Benjola