Recurve Bows!

[Northern Hunter]

Being a bow hunter IRL I love how bow hunting has been implemented into TLD. However I think its safe to say that the bow we have access to now is less than optimal. I have seen many posts on the forums asking for compound bows, but I think a compound bow would ruin the feel of TLD. A Recurve Bow would fill the spot of a better bow while still keeping with the games theme. Having Recurve Bows could add a lot of challenging and fun gameplay mechanics that differentiate it from the survival bow.

Availability

The Recurve Bow(s) could be found in any number of locations but it would probably replace the survival bows found in some hunting blinds and Katie's secluded corner. The big thing is that the Recurve Bow Would not be craftable!

Stats

The Recurve Bow would of course shoot further and do more damage then our current survival bow, but it could have some important less obvious stats as well. These could be things like multiple ammo types and reparability.

Maintenance

The Recurve Bow could have a unique repair system in the form of bowstrings. Unlike a compound bow a recurve bow can be restrung by hand ( I myself have seen this process and it requires little more than a spare string, bow stringer, and your own foot.) The bowstring could be waxed to keep up condition, and sometimes as condition gets lower the bowstring would have a chance to snap requiring another string, and possibly a bow stringer.

Ammo

The Recurve Bow could also shoot wooden simple arrows and non craftable factory made arrows. The Recurve would get a small nerf to range and damage when using simple arrows.

Researching

Of course stringing a bow is not something everyone can do, so it would be learned through a skill book along with possibly crafting the survival bow and arrows.

A Recurve Bow could be a great addition to The Long Dark and I hope you all agree, Thanks!

[Ape88]

Yes, please! And of course, skill would come along with practice and research. If only we had a way to practice without risking loss of an arrow.

[akodo1]

would you also desire the inclusion of a compound bow, even more potent than a recurve that can only fire non-craftable factory arrows?  (I have been told home built arrows have a tendency to have the shaft break when pushed as hard as compound bow or does...often breaking before it fully leaves the bow, which can mean busted arrow shaft impaling your hand)

[Northern Hunter]

9 minutes ago, akodo1 said:

would you also desire the inclusion of a compound bow, even more potent than a recurve that can only fire non-craftable factory arrows?  (I have been told home built arrows have a tendency to have the shaft break when pushed as hard as compound bow or does...often breaking before it fully leaves the bow, which can mean busted arrow shaft impaling your hand)

I could see the purpose of a compound bow that only shot factory arrows. However the big disadvantage of a compound bow in this setting is that if it breaks there is no way to repair it without advanced tools. Compound bows would have their place and I am always an advocate of more diversity in weapons, but if I could only have one a Recurve Bow definitely be my pick. Also yes I would never shoot a wooden arrow out of a compound bow ( I like my hands the way they are ) 

[Boston123]

My selfbow, that I made by hand, is more powerful by an order of magnitude than the average recurve bow.

The only difference between a recurve bow and a non-recurved bow is that the arrow can be faster and the bow is shorter. Thats........ thats it.

The string you use for a recurve is the same string you use for a selfbow.

Who the hell uses a bow stringer?  Plant the bottom knock on top of your foot, loop your other leg around the bow, and bend the stave. No, stringing a bow is something anybody can do. You shouldn't have to "research it" in a book. I taught myself how to string my bow, and I wasn't in a survival situation.

Why wouldn't you be able to craft a recurve bow? All you have to do is steam/boil the tips of the stave, and bend them while they dry.

[Northern Hunter]

You make a lot of valid points in your argument, and I understand your point of view. However my primary reasons for wanting a recurve bow ( and I should have stated this in my original post ) is to have a repairable bow that allows for a kind of progression with bows in game. I personally have never shot a self made bow, so your knowledge on the topic is much greater than mine. I am sure that the draw weights of a selfbow can vary wildly between different bows, but of course I do not for sure. The point I'm trying to make is that our survival bow in game could very well have a different draw weight than the one you shoot. No, the string you use (at least in game) is not the same. One is made out of animal intestines or some other animal products, and a recurve bow to my knowledge does not use that kind of string. Your argument against the bow stringer makes a lot of sense and in my original post you can see under Maintenance that I do not think that a bow stringer should be mandatory 100% of the time. Perhaps it would only be needed in the early levels of the upcoming archery skill. While you learned to string a bow on your own you probably had a little trial and error (again just speaking from what I think is most logical) until you strung the bow correctly. You also should realize that people have a different thought process if I were to stop someone randomly on the street and asked if they could string a bow they probably would not be able to. You certainly can make a recurve bow by hand, but the point of the recurve for me was to have a factory alternative if you will. Think of the forged tools and the factory tools, I can make a forged knife in game but it will be worse in comparison to the actual hunting knife. I intended the same balance with the Survival bow and Recurve bow. The points you made are valid and I could see them working. However my ideas for an in game recurve bow and yours certainly seem to differ.

[akodo1]

3 hours ago, Boston123 said:

My selfbow, that I made by hand, is more powerful by an order of magnitude than the average recurve bow.

The only difference between a recurve bow and a non-recurved bow is that the arrow can be faster and the bow is shorter. Thats........ thats it.

The string you use for a recurve is the same string you use for a selfbow.

Who the hell uses a bow stringer?  Plant the bottom knock on top of your foot, loop your other leg around the bow, and bend the stave. No, stringing a bow is something anybody can do. You shouldn't have to "research it" in a book. I taught myself how to string my bow, and I wasn't in a survival situation.

Why wouldn't you be able to craft a recurve bow? All you have to do is steam/boil the tips of the stave, and bend them while they dry.

Order of magnitude means 10X.  Most recurve bows are between 40-55 lb draw weight.  You are saying you shoot a 400 lb draw weight selfbow?

Also...a selfbow is a bow made from a single piece of wood (not counting any handwraps or possibly nocks made of bone or horn on the tips.  Sometimes this definition is extended to a bow made of 2 bits of wood joined at the handle.  

 

These types of bows are normally straight-limbed when unstrung the main body is straight or curves slightly back toward the archer's body.  a recurve bow has limbs that curve away from the archer when unstrung.  A self-bow CAN be a recurve.  You are mixing terms. It's like in a discussion or car vs pickup you are saying chevy is best...which could be a car or a pickup.

But because you are reacting to a post on recurve bows as saying your bow is different, I am going to assume your selfbow is a straight bow (as the vast majority of them are).  Of course similarly, the original poster probably isn't talking about any/all recurve but most likely about relatively modern laminated wood recurve bows

The recurve is a superior design as it stores and then delivers more energy all other factors being the same (same wood, same thickness, etc.).    

You at least acknowledge that the arrow is faster.  But the same weight arrow, flying faster, MEANS MORE POWERFUL.  And that's a good reason to include a recurve.

I do agree that in theory you'd be able to craft a recurve, being that many non-industrial people did make recurve bows historically. But again I think the original poster is referring to a standard relatively modern 'recurve' bow of laminated wood, be it mass-produced or hand-made. Something like that is going to be more potent than the survival bow found in the game.  In theory you could include any sort of 'improved' bow, be it a selfbow or multi piece, straight bow or recurve, regular wood, laminated wood, or 'other material' bow.  But skipping the compound bow, by far the most common bow you are going to encounter is a mass produced recurve bow of laminated wood.

I disagree on stringing.  A lot of historical bows were destroyed when people tried to string them.  Sometimes this was because they didn't realize it was a recurve, but sometimes it was because they were a difficult shape to string even knowing it was a recurve and there was a 'technique' to it, and not knowing this technique, the bow was destroyed in the effort either because they applied brute force or because they employed an incorrect technique.  This is thought to be what's going on with Odysseus's bow, the suitors couldn't string it because brute force wouldn't work, you had to know the technique for whatever style that bow was.  

Your mass produced semi-modern recurve bow of modern wood can have high draw weight, let's say 60 lbs.  Yes, this is less than what historical English War Bows aka Longbows had for draw weight, BUT #1 you had more leverage on your side stringing a longbow due to overall greater length #2 most modern people would physically struggle to string a 100lb draw weight longbow as well as a 60lb recurve.  

ALSO, It takes more power to string a bow vs pulling a bow.  It's part of the reason the standard 'step-through' method was developed vs the older push-pull method.  Stringer is even more effective.  What this means is a person can be limited on how powerful of a bow they buy because of what they can string, not what they can pull.  A person may find they can physically pull a 60 lb recurve, but can use the push-pull method on any bow 30lbs or less, step-through for any bow 50lbs or less, and stringer method for any bow 70lbs or less.  So the stringer  allows the hunter to purchase and hunt with the heaviest bow he can pull.

FINALLY the design of your semi-modern mass produced laminated wood recurve bows, you do have to take care that your string is properly in the grooves, or you risk damaging the bow.  This isn't a risk with a straightbow like most selfbows.  You have more control with a stringer making it less likely you'd not set it fully in the grove or otherwise apply unbalanced force, which can warp the limbs of a recurve over time.

So it makes sense to me to represent an 'improved' bow in the game you model it after a 60 lb semi-modern laminated wood recurve bow, and you go with the idea that most people would struggle to string it with just the step-through method, therefore the stringer becomes necessary.

 

 

[Jbird77]

I agree with staying recurve.  Some things like putting on a replacement recurve bow string are so much easier when comparing to a compound bow where you need a special press and tools. 

[peteloud]

Any second level bow would be good, there is no need to quibble about the type. The better bow could be crafted from a new type of wood that is added to the game, or the bow could simply be found.

Two levels of arrow would be good.  A simple wooden arrow for killing rabbits and scaring wolves could be crafted from branches.

[bighara]

I am mostly OK with the current archery mechanics. My main issues are shot arrows periodically just disappearing from a carcass, the rate of decay (bows and arrows wear out too fast for something non-repairable), and -in relation- sapling scarcity for making replacements. Perhaps alternate materials or a way to repair bows & arrows other than just harvesting the arrows and replacing shafts?