Bonus to better calorie management

[Thurman Merman]

I know the whole topic of calorie burn, calorie burn independent of body temp, and meal before bedtime exploit has been discussed quite a bit, so I apologize if this particular thought has also been offered.

Why not have a mechanic that decreases the rate at which you heal by a small percentage (5%) (and/or decrease your ability to stay warm, decrease your maximum carry load, etc.) for every consecutive day you do not eat until you're full (i.e., hit 2500 on the calorie bar).  There should be a cost to the intentional starving exploit and a benefit to keeping yourself well fed.  This way, you ration yourself for 10 days, your healing ability is roughly half speed - want it back up?  Get full.  

Thoughts?  

[Hiemalis]

I've read a few threads about the calorie system, and what strikes me first is how complicated the suggestions are. I really like the game's minimalistic approach; sure, there's room for improvement in the calorie system, but I think that simplicity should be kept in mind. It should be intuitive and straightforward. We should also consider that, by adding any amount of complexity to a system in order to curb abuse, sometimes we add more ways to abuse it. (Any country's law system is a prime example of that.)

With all that said, I like this idea, except for the "consecutive days" part. What if we just lost track of the last time we reached the max calories limit? I don't think we should be penalized if we kept the calories bar at, say, around 2300 for a week. The penalties should follow a fixed ratio to our calories' current value.

Perhaps the penalties could vary according to the difficulty -- since it creates a downward spiral scenario in the case we don't find enough food.

There's also an interface problem. (One that already exists in the game, IMO, and I'm not yet sure how to solve.) How do you tell the player that her character's max encumbrance (or even worse, her healing capability) is being currently limited by her calorie intake?

[Thurman Merman]

Good points.  Perhaps a mechanic similar to that of hypothermia or parasites - just a note on the medical tab that you need to hit max calories to regain your prior abilities.  

[Dirmagnos]

Penalties should be based on amount of time when stomach is empty, as at 0, to prevent current exploit that allows surviving on just few hundred calories per day. And for each cumulative hour of starvation, recovery should take at least ten(by keeping hunger meter above 50%). So that it would be an option in extreme situations, but not an actual game strategy as it is now.

And i dont like idea with needing full bar, since it makes even less sense as whole parasites feature. If i eat, but i dont eat till i start to throw up, it doesnt mean that im starving.

At some point i had idea of Malnutrition as condition, where each hour of starvation cost player 1 point and with every 10 points lost all player stats decrease by 1%. And upon losing 700 points(roughly a month of starvation) player dies. And to recover 1 point player had to stay fed for 10(15, 20, whatever) hours.

[Thurman Merman]

1 hour ago, Dirmagnos said:

At some point i had idea of Malnutrition as condition, 

That's really all I'm talking about. Just something to give you an incentive to eating well/disincentive to starving yourself.

[Wastelander]

1 hour ago, Thurman Merman said:

That's really all I'm talking about. Just something to give you an incentive to eating well/disincentive to starving yourself.

How about this:

MALNUTRITION

Effects: -10kg carrying capacity, halved stamina bar, hunger rises quicklier (since your body is trying to repair the damage you've suffered from malnutrition), max condition -25%

Cure: Keep your calorie store over 500 calories for (insert arbitrary number, maybe 10) days.

[Thurman Merman]

1 hour ago, Wastelander said:

How about this:

MALNUTRITION

Effects: -10kg carrying capacity, halved stamina bar, hunger rises quicklier (since your body is trying to repair the damage you've suffered from malnutrition), max condition -25%

Cure: Keep your calorie store over 500 calories for (insert arbitrary number, maybe 10) days.

Seems reasonable to me - pretty much what I'm looking for.  I'm not a designer, so I'm not married to (or under the impression that I could come up with) any definitive approach.  I'd just a like a good mechanic that penalizes starvation/rewards staying well fed.

[Ruruwawa]

+1

I really like the current hypothermia implementation because it gives you some leeway to warm up before the long term effects set it, but you can't just ignore the cold forever.  I'd love to see a similar implementation for malnutrition.

[MarrowStone]

I agree with @Dirmagnos here and have to disagree with the keep a full bar approach because the 2000 calories is your calorie store not your caloric requrements for the day.

As long as its above 0 that means you have energy stored in your body thats not being used, you are not starving when the bar is red. You are starving as soon as it hits 0 because now you are taking nutrients and food from your own cells (other than fat)

When at 0 you should get the affliction

Starving:

1 percent condition loss per hour

Max Stamina and exhaustion reduced 2 percent per hour. 

Cannot raise condition while sleeping.

(Calorie store goes into negatives)

Cure:

Bring calorie store back to 0.

All stamina and endurance debuffs will return 2 percent per hour

[MarrowStone]

The stamina and exhaustion debuff would be represented by a greyed out section of the bars, and the information above would be explained in your afflictions tab. That means the UI would be simple and itd erase those abusing the mechanic

[Thurman Merman]

I like that approach MarrowStone.  Simpler is usually better.