Deer Call

[SteveP]

What do you think of the idea of crafting a deer call? Calling in deer is the best hunting technique. There are just a few really good hunting videos on youtube that I could suggest (no time, rushing at the moment) Essentially the deer come in quite close wandering about. The hunter will make another type of noise such as clicking the tongue to make the deer freeze and then he takes his shot

What do we make deer callers from? (more later)

[cekivi]

Makes perfect sense but not for the sandbox as is. The only time I've really heard moose, deer, etc. calling is during the rut which is mid to late fall. Outside of the rut, calling the animal would have minimal (if any) effect.

I do like the idea of clicking your tongue or making some other noise at them though. Deer are curious and they will stop and perk up to look at the sound. Wouldn't have much time before they realized it was a person and scamper off though

[SteveP]

7 hours ago, cekivi said:

The only time I've really heard moose, deer, etc. calling is during the rut which is mid to late fall. Outside of the rut, calling the animal would have minimal (if any) effect.

There is still some breeding going on after the main rut and deer will still react to calls.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/deer-hunting/finding-deer-hunt/2011/08/5-tactics-taking-bucks-during-post-rut-doldr

http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/big-buck-zone/2011/12/post-rut-strategies-big-bucks

Deer will also react to distress or maternal calls. The following page has lots of interesting information about a great variety of calls as well as the variety of animal reactions. In different circumstances, a buck may respond quite differently depending upon how his day has gone.

http://www.bobfoulkrod.com/?page_id=922  Other types of calls

And then of course there are the calls designed to attract predators.

Wolves for instance: http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/2012/11/how-hunt-wolves-wolf-hunting-tips-and-tactics-experts

And here is an excellent summary of bear calling techniques http://www.critrcall.com/content/00/01/61/19/61/userimages/Key8forweb.htm

Nothing like seeing it in action. Many of these calls can be done just using your voice.

Black bear calling:

The following video illustrates the tactics of hunting bear with a bow and illustrates just how unpredictable and dangerous a wounded bear can be:

 

 

[SteveP]

How to make a home made call.

http://www.ehow.com/how_8301572_make-easy-deer-call.html

How to fashion a reed from plastic for a duck (or other call)

http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-Your-Own-Duck-Call/

Need a suitable reed? (bamboo)

 

It's really a process of trial and error with a great variety of possible materials and dimensions and thicknesses.

Of course, it would also be possible to find a variety of calls at the Quonset Hut, Camp Office or Trapper's Cabin. That sorta kinda takes the fun out of it though since this is something you do during the long blizzards when you are trapped indoors or when you are bored and need something to kill time.

 

[Dirmagnos]

Arent those supposed to be of rather low efficinecy outside of mating season, and even then its not a sure thing ?

[SteveP]

1 hour ago, Dirmagnos said:

Aren't those supposed to be of rather low efficacy outside of mating season, and even then its not a sure thing ?

Not at all! Calling deer outside the rut is still far better than stalking or still hunting. For predators, you make as much distress noise as possible using the calls and it works incredibly effectively. There are tons of videos illustrating both predator and ungulate calling. The hunting season and the rut usually coincide; whereas in survival, you take what comes when it comes. Call deer and you get bears and wolves. There was a video I didn't share where the hunter was calling moose and had a rather nasty meet with a grizzly. If you use the fawn call, you can call in both bucks and does regardless of the season. By far most of the ungulates are hunted using calls because it is so much more effective. On open ground (tundra caribou), you're going to have to take distance shots. My dad used to stalk and shoot at about 200 m range using a 308 magnum & 8x scope sighted at 200 m. But he did not always come home with game either. We also tried using group hunting  using drivers walking the woods to push the deer to the shooters. Nada. Why didn't he use calls? If I get a chance to talk to my great uncle, he's the only one left alive who could answer that. I think it was just cultural. It's how it was done passed on by others. Grampa used to hunt with horses to haul out the game. He had the horses so that's why he was invited along! There were no calls in Dad's stuff is one reason I don't think he used calls. It's also possible he used vocal grunts and rattling to draw in moose or elk. Hard to say. He passed on in 88 long after he stopped hunting. I was a boy then.

Check out this channel which has discussion of hunting tactics especially calling game. I believe it was here that I found the references for the efficacy of using hunting calls vs stalking or still hunting from a blind. Calling is a type of still hunting. Often hunters get onto a peak in order to glass for game and then move into that area. In Dual Survival New Zealand Matt called a buck in and Joe nailed it with a single shot.

Kristopher Clausen mentions the importance of calls for hunting all sorts of game.
https://www.youtube.com/user/kristofferclausen

 

[cekivi]

You're right that predator and wounded prey calls would work all year long. Predators (well, wolves) call all year long to communicate with the pack and will definitely investigate an animal in distress for a free meal. I'm still very skeptical about calling in an ungulate outside of the rut. We've had problems calling in moose during hunting season because the rut either hadn't started yet or was already over.

Also, I think you're overthinking how to make calls. For moose at least you can make a very effective call by just using rolled up birch bark to amplify your voice and make water splashing sounds.

[SteveP]

33 minutes ago, cekivi said:

 I'm still very skeptical about calling in an ungulate outside of the rut. We've had problems calling in moose during hunting season because the rut either hadn't started yet or was already over.

Also, I think you're overthinking how to make calls. For moose at least you can make a very effective call by just using rolled up birch bark to amplify your voice and make water splashing sounds.

Maybe the moose have learned to distinguish human imitation calls. Also you would not use a rut call outside rutting season. I'm only referring to the experts I have discovered so by no means 100%. These maternal calls or distress calls were for deer so I don't know how moose do that. Here is a list of animal calls. http://www.phantomcalls.com/Tips-and-call-Recommendation

Note that this is a digital device for generating a large repertoire of calls. There could be a little bit of marketing hype to this. Have you tried any of these kind of calls? I'm very curious how well they would work. Also one needs to be very aware of the wind direction and scent. Different animals may rely on vision or smell too. Bears can't see well but smell extremely well.

Here is the calf moose distress call on video.

 

[cekivi]

Ah, yeah, that would work. Mamma would want to make sure the calves are OK and come running

I've never had success with calling. My dad has but only during or near the rut.

I still have doubts about deer calling in the sandbox. Animals don't have their young until spring so the calf distress calls may not work. However, calling in a wolf should certainly be possible by mimicking a wounded rabbit or deer. I have a friend back home who hunts foxes with a wounded rabbit call.

[SteveP]

Within the context of the game, using a call for deer gives a rationalization for how we can get close enough to deer in order to harvest them. Right now, you just have to observe the deer and the pattern of where they walk and then creep up and wait for them with the rifle. That's not very plausible. I get that we don't see calves in the game; there are lots of wild life we don't see in the game. We don't have blinds or tree stands so the normal bow hunting methods can't work. If you stand up to take a bow shot, the deer will notice and take off even if you are behind a tree or in the grass. I have not found any hiding places to shoot deer at a reasonable range. Normal bow hunting range is what 20-40 meters? We don't have any aiming mechanism for the bow at longer ranges as would be the case for a real life hunter. Taking deer with the rifle has never been difficult. Bow hunting is nigh impossible. The problem seems to be the lack of camouflage or hunting blinds. With a cross bow one could hunt deer from the prone position. 

Just because I haven't found a method to effectively bow hunt the deer in TLD doesn't mean there isn't a tactic that is working. I've seen people crouch, then stand and draw and shoot before the deer reacts. I can't seem to master that; my age or coordination could be my problem or a mental block. Perhaps the community can teach me/us how to do it. Let me put a thread on How to Play and see what suggestions others have. I wonder if I should put the topic in Alpha feedback or how to play. If this were usenet, I would cross post since the hunting problem is, at least in my mind, a feedback kind of problem.

45 minutes ago, cekivi said:

I still have doubts about deer calling in the sandbox. Animals don't have their young until spring so the calf distress calls may not work. However, calling in a wolf should certainly be possible by mimicking a wounded rabbit or deer. I have a friend back home who hunts foxes with a wounded rabbit call.

Is the reason you feel uncomfortable, that you feel deer calling lacks verisimilitude? Or is it that it will alter the balance and make the game too easy? I do think there are ways to compensate for that; other risks aside from a shortage of meat such as bad weather, illnesses, accidents, maintenance issues with the bow, fewer deer, alterations in the deer AI., predators showing up while harvesting... I don't want to see the game turn away from strategy to an arcade style of eye-hand coordination. I want the game to really stay on the survival theme which means thinking, planning and improvising; being willing to alter strategy based on circumstances. I want the game to be able to maintain challenge, ideally by heuristics. I want the game to let the player make mistakes and learn from those mistakes. I also like the excitement of close encounters with wild life and a little bit of unpredictability but manageable unpredictability. For example, I don't want the bear to just randomly be able to snuff my player. If it randomly flees after being shot by bow or rifle from the fire trap.that might be another alternative. I think more variability in the patrol paths of the animal AIs would be beneficial and add more challenge too but this has to be balanced by some other tactic that has a good probability of success. I wonder if its time to force players to restart from fresh rather than being able to rely upon caches of stuff from previous releases.

[SteveP]

If Hinterland implements craftable game calls, what resources would be used to make them? Bamboo is not native to our location however reeds can be made from any type of softwood. Hollowing out tubes is a problem unless were were to use some type of hollow reed. Nobody seems to craft animal calls from primitive materials. All the how to descriptions describe the use of special tools, dowels, plastic tubes. Primitive technology for drilling was to use sticks and sand to abrade the holes. Shaping of reeds would require a sharp knife and a lot of patience. The simplest implementation is just to add the game calls to findable items.

[cekivi]

Eh, I am also terrible at the bow. I haven't figured out how to compensate for range drop yet so my arrows (unless it's point blank) always over or under shoot

It's not the calling I have a problem with. It would add more depth to the game really. I've just never (personally) seen it to work in the winter on deer or moose. So, more of a personal hangup. Like I mentioned above, if you wanted to make a wounded rabbit call to lure wolves I'd be all for implementing it into the game. 

And I don't know if it would work on wolves but we already have most of what we need in the game already to make a coyote call:

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Rabbit-Distress-Predator-Call

Ingredients/Tools are:

• 1 large stick (in game)
• 1 blade of grass (bulrushes)
• glue (gut maybe to tie it together?)
• chisel and mallet (tools or hammer)