Next Phase for TLD - Procedural Generation

[doug_bailey]

TLD is great. I've spent many hours over the past 12+ months playing it and enjoyed it immensely. But the replayability of the game is declining dramatically for me. Patches of new content create brief new periods of excitement but those fade also. For the game to have long term appeal and replayability, I hope the dev team are exploring or will explore procedural generation. If the game had the procedural generation capabilities of No Man's Sky for example then every single game could be different and the size of the world could be much more vast as we'd no longer be bound by what the dev team could handcraft but rather what the engine could produce and store sensibly. I know procedural generation is a huge lift from a development perspective but I think it'd take TLD to the next level.

[Bill Tarling]

Procedural maps have been discussed extensively for over a year (there are numerous topic threads both on the official forum, and the Steam forum covering it), but the game design is not very likely to be changed because the world is very specifically handcrafted for story mode. To change the whole design now would mean scrapping plans for the spring story release (which is their priority focus right now), and reworking all the coding.

[doug_bailey]

Procedural maps have been discussed extensively for over a year (there are numerous topic threads both on the official forum, and the Steam forum covering it), but the game design is not very likely to be changed because the world is very specifically handcrafted for story mode. To change the whole design now would mean scrapping plans for the spring story release (which is their priority focus right now), and reworking all the coding.

I fail to see how the existing world's nature as being specifically handcrafted for story mode has any bearing on the capability of procedural generation to be added in a next phase of development. I hope that isn't the conclusion you've drawn from the "extensive" discussion you referred to in your post. The existence of a handcrafted world with a story mode does not preclude the existence of a procedurally generated sandbox mode. Diablo 3 is a perfect example of the ability to have both a handcrafted story mode and a procedurally generated sandbox mode.

[Bill Tarling]

Diablo 3 is a perfect example of the ability to have both a handcrafted story mode and a procedurally generated sandbox mode.

The Diablo series were specifically designed with procedural maps from the beginning.

The sandbox maps are part of the story mode.

Perhaps after the game is completed, modding may be opened for possibly new maps or procedural, but you mentioned changing the system to procedural maps rather than static maps as a next stage of development... They're approaching the final stage of development now, which is the story mode that uses the static maps.

Again, perhaps after the full release is done, modding may be permitted for procedural sandbox maps.

[doug_bailey]

Diablo 3 is a perfect example of the ability to have both a handcrafted story mode and a procedurally generated sandbox mode.

The Diablo series were specifically designed with procedural maps from the beginning.

The sandbox maps are part of the story mode.

Perhaps after the game is completed, modding may be opened for possibly new maps or procedural, but you mentioned changing the system to procedural maps rather than static maps as a next stage of development... They're approaching the final stage of development now, which is the story mode that uses the static maps.

Again, perhaps after the full release is done, modding may be permitted for procedural sandbox maps.

I can't tell whether you are being intentionally or unintentionally dense. It is completely irrelevant to my point when the concept of procedural generation was introduced into the Diablo series from the outset or not but rather that static maps and procedural generation can exist simultaneously within the development of a single game. You pointed to the existence of the story mode in TLD as if, by its mere existence, the possibility of procedural generation was precluded. That's obviously not the case regardless of whether procedural generation was envisioned from the beginning or not. And yes "perhaps" they can add on procedural generation after they've completed story mode or before depending on how they want to approach the development task.

[Bill Tarling]

I can't tell whether you are being intentionally or unintentionally dense.

I don't appreciate the insult, so you can argue on your own. :evil:

[doug_bailey]

I can't tell whether you are being intentionally or unintentionally dense.

I don't appreciate the insult, so you can argue on your own. :evil:

It's not intended as an insult. Just an observation. You've repeatedly shown an inability or unwillingness to grasp the point.

[selfless]

The conversations to which Bill was referring have been with the developers, who have expressly stated that procedural generation is something they are expressly not interested in developing, ever, rendering any further debate moot, until after release and then only if there becomes an opportunity and interest in modding. Sorry.

Links:

developer comments on steamforums

old but still very relevant comments on what the game has always intended to be

[FINDarkside]

But then again that's not what Sangrivane and Bill were discussing. Bill was saying that making procedural maps would interference with story mode and current design.

[doug_bailey]

I've not located any statements by Hinterland stating they've no interest or plans in procedural generation. And despite what some may think a game can have multiple modes and have modes added later that were not part of the original design. The game doesn't have to have procedural generation but I think that would take the game to a whole other level. As for whether Hinterland has or has not ruled it out, companies listen to what their customers want so I wouldn't just drop the subject because they've said they had no interest in pursuing it.