Rate of freezing, imbalance in energetic values, stamina bar

[Sly]

I have noticed some issues in the game-play that inaccurately simulate some aspects.

Here they are:

1. There is no difference in rate of freezing when the character is walking and running.

What is wrong: all we know, the more intensive exercises some human perform, the more heat its body produces (and of course, more calories burning).

Suggestions: to adjust "freeze-heat" model, so different states - stationary/walking/performing some actions (like harvesting meat)/running alter freezing level.

It will be more like to reality to have the possibility to warm up a little when you are freezing by performing some run.

Example: character is stationary, heat/freeze modifiers are the air temperature, the wind and clothes; character is walking/harvesting, heat/freeze modifiers are the air temperature, the wind, clothes and walking/harvesting modifier +5 degrees Celsius (or the number you think is more appropriate); character is running, heat/freeze modifiers are the air temperature, the wind, clothes and running modifier +15 degrees Celsius (or the number you think is more appropriate)

2. There are obvious imbalance in energetic values of the food.

What is wrong: the energy count per 100 g of cooked meat varies from about 109 kcal (Grilled Fish), 158 kcal (deer meat) to 173 kcal (wild rabbit meat), so apparently there is wrong count when 1 kg of deer meat is worth just 800 kcal (it is very low, even if counting "net kcalories" in some way); then there is imbalance between different sorts of meat: in the game 1 kg of rabbit meat worth 460 or so kcal, 1 kg of deer meat - 800 kcal (which is barely reflects situation observed in real life as concerning the numbers as the relation between them - i do not think that geomagnetic disaster makes such changes).

Source of information about kcalories count is USDA, proof-links are below.

www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/ge ... nt=100.000

www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/usda/

deer-meat-(cooked-roasted)?portionid=61315&portionamount=100.000

www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/usda/

wild-rabbit-meat-(cooked-stewed)?portionid=61331&portionamount=100.000

Suggestions:

- to adjust energy values of meat according to information available and easy accessible in different web sites such as http://www.caloriecount.com or http://www.nutritiondata.self.com;

- make the difference between raw/cold and cooked/heated food (e.g. now there is no difference between cold canned beans and cooked canned beans - so what is the point to cook them? - but if to make cooked beans to have more "net calories" - and the reason appears*

*Lets assume that we heated the can of food from 0 to 75 Celsius (75 C is not too hot to eat, isn`t it?). Knowing that 1 kal is energy that is needed to raise the temperature of 1 g of water by 1 degree Celsius. Lets assume that can of beans (500 g) is equal about 500 g of water. Therefore 500*75=37 500 cal = 37.5 kcal. It is too small amount, lets make it 50?

For example, can of "Beans, baked, canned, with beef" are about 500 g * 120 kcal = 600 kcal. So lets them be worth 550 "net kcal" in cold condition and 600 "net kcal" in heated state.

3. Stamina bar does not reflect states of tolerance to light, medium, hard, overload (i am not meaning the weight load now, but work load).

What is wrong: its barely related to the reality that running for the short time and distance is much less (almost not at all) affecting the fresh-tired condition than a couple hour race.

Suggestion: to divide the stamina bar for several parts, so the first part be equal about original amount of stamina and not affect tiredness while consuming (or refilling), second - makes character to get tired more fast when consuming (or refilling), third makes character to get tired even more fast then previous when consuming (or refilling) and so on. When the consuming first part - no alarm and green color, when consuming second - yellow color of the scale and character`s phrase alarm, signaling about overload, consuming the third part - red color of scale and character`s phrase alarm, signaling about excessive overload; when the scale is ended - character cannot run, barely walking and complaining to be completely exhausted.

When the character is fresh - stamina bar could refill faster, when tired - slower, when is exhausted - draining of stamina bar and no refilling.

I beg you excuse about my English. My best wishes and thanks The Long Dark team for the work you are doing, it is really good idea and the game is very unique and atmospheric.

I realize that just to propose the changes is much easier then to apply them to such a complicated program as a computer game. I know almost nothing about the programming, so it is hard to me to know are my propositions convenient but think they will help to make the game more realistic and i hope that they be accepted as worthy to apply.

Sincerely,

[BinaryDigit09]

1. I agree that sprinting should warm you up a little, and maybe increase the calorie cost of sprinting to make up for it (cost reduced by sprint skill). It'd be great for those emergencies when you got greedy on a deer carcass and wound up freezing with a long walk home. Also, I think chopping wood should warm you up a bit too.

2. I hadn't really noticed this myself, but it would be cool if the in-game calories were similar to what you'd get from the real deal. I'd also like to see you get scurvy (with a day's warning first) if you don't eat cattails once in a while.

3. The endurance attribute represents a character's overall tiredness, and it decreases at a faster rate when sprinting and doing other activities, so the game does sort-of reflect the character's ability to do more stuff before having to rest. You're right in that physical activities like sprinting & chopping wood don't make you sleepy, they make your muscles tired and weak. But the end result is the same: you need to rest/sleep a few hours before you can sprint or chop wood again. So I like the stamina bar the way it is now, just my opinion. =)

[selfless]

2. ...

Knowing that 1 kal is energy that is needed to raise the temperature of 1 g of water by 1 degree Celsius.

...

It's 1 cal of energy approximately to heat 1g of water 1 degree. 1 cal = 1/1000th of a Cal. So heating your beans adds 0.04 Cal. Or "near enough to be called nothing" in layman's terms. Otherwise, the most popular diet in the world would be to eat all your food cold so you can consume negative Calories.

[selfless]

#1 I already told you on the wishlist is already in effect, however it is only a 1 degree bonus currently and disappears as soon as you stop to check it.

and #3 already kinda exists, though it again is not very obvious. When your fatigue is full, stamina recharges quickly. When your fatigue is near empty, stamina comes back slowly. The more you work, the more you fatigue.

Great feedback, though. Maybe they will change things to be more apparent. Or release a manual to explain how it all works in the end

#2 is just a game-balance thing I do believe. If you could hold out in an abandoned supermarket for 6 months, it would not make for such a threatened experience.

[Sly]

2. ...

Knowing that 1 kal is energy that is needed to raise the temperature of 1 g of water by 1 degree Celsius.

...

It's 1 cal of energy approximately to heat 1g of water 1 degree. 1 cal = 1/1000th of a Cal. So heating your beans adds 0.04 Cal. Or "near enough to be called nothing" in layman's terms. Otherwise, the most popular diet in the world would be to eat all your food cold so you can consume negative Calories.

Please check again: 500*75=37 500 Cal = 37.5 KCal, not 0.04 Cal. But 37 500 Cal, wich is 37.5 KCal.

[jolynsbass]

Regardless of the amount of physical heat contained in the food (cold vs hot beans), we humans don't use physical heat as a source of food energy - the calories we are eating/working with are chemical heat storage. Heating up the beans might make them taste better, and might give you physical heat, but that wouldn't actually give you more food energy that you can turn into motion/work. It would just warm you up a bit.

Now, it *does* work the other way around - we *do* use chemical energy to create physical heat - but that's mostly just because we are very inefficient at converting chemically stored calories into stuff that creates motion - which is why exercise/hard work makes us physically warm; a *lot* of the calories released from the chemical storage in our cells is converted directly into heat, and it's doing it all the time, whether we are especially active or not (but moreso when we are active).

[Sly]

Regardless of the amount of physical heat contained in the food (cold vs hot beans), we humans don't use physical heat as a source of food energy - the calories we are eating/working with are chemical heat storage. Heating up the beans might make them taste better, and might give you physical heat, but that wouldn't actually give you more food energy that you can turn into motion/work. It would just warm you up a bit.

Now, it *does* work the other way around - we *do* use chemical energy to create physical heat - but that's mostly just because we are very inefficient at converting chemically stored calories into stuff that creates motion - which is why exercise/hard work makes us physically warm; a *lot* of the calories released from the chemical storage in our cells is converted directly into heat, and it's doing it all the time, whether we are especially active or not (but moreso when we are active).

Of course, it is so.

Therefore, in game we are struggling the cold and substantial amount of energy is spent to keep the body temperature. So if we eat cold food in game, we will spent that amount of energy anyway. That is my point.

[Drifter Man]

2. ...

Knowing that 1 kal is energy that is needed to raise the temperature of 1 g of water by 1 degree Celsius.

...

It's 1 cal of energy approximately to heat 1g of water 1 degree. 1 cal = 1/1000th of a Cal. So heating your beans adds 0.04 Cal. Or "near enough to be called nothing" in layman's terms. Otherwise, the most popular diet in the world would be to eat all your food cold so you can consume negative Calories.

Please check again: 500*75=37 500 Cal = 37.5 KCal, not 0.04 Cal. But 37 500 Cal, wich is 37.5 KCal.

That's right, it takes 37.5 kcal = 37.5 Cal = 37500 cal = 156.9 kJ to warm 0.5 kg of water from 0 to 75 degrees C. Just be careful with uppercase/lowecase. 1 Cal = 1 kcal = 1000 cal = 4.184 kJ. Confusing our tongues would not have been enough to stop us from building the Tower of Babel. God had to confuse our unit systems, too.

The body needs to spend energy on cold food/drink to bring it up to body temperature. However, I'm not sure that heating ABOVE body temperature has the same effect. The body will have to get rid of the excess heat.

It's a good suggestion, in game I eat all the canned food cold. No real motivation to heat it up. There is a warming bonus of some kind, but I never need it when I'm sitting next to a fire.

[Scyzara]

Now, it *does* work the other way around - we *do* use chemical energy to create physical heat - but that's mostly just because we are very inefficient at converting chemically stored calories into stuff that creates motion - which is why exercise/hard work makes us physically warm [...].

That statement rather stands for cold-blooded animals. I definitely wouldn't call mammalian or avian thermoregulation a side-effect of inefficient energy conversion. Homoiotherm animals (= almost all mammals, afaik all birds and a few other species) use a considerable amount of their food energy to keep up their body temperature on purpose. It's no "accident" but rather a benefitial feature, especially in cold climates.

I agree that it's ofc. a pretty double-edged form of usage for your food's chemical energy that certainly has its disadvantages as well (especially way more food needed), but it's still no sign or side-effect of inefficiency.

It's rather a "genetic switch" turned on on purpose that can even be turned off again if that happens to be beneficial for a species (see e.g. naked mole rats which are mammals but can switch between warm- and coldbloodedness depending on environmental conditions. It's an adaption to their habitat below the usually pretty warm sands of a desert).

[Sly]

Just be careful with uppercase/lowecase. 1 Cal = 1 kcal = 1000 cal = 4.184 kJ. Confusing our tongues would not have been enough to stop us from building the Tower of Babel. God had to confuse our unit systems, too.

I did a mess with that uppercase/lowercase. Of course, 500*75 cal=37 500 cal = 37.5 Kcal= 37.5 Cal

The body needs to spend energy on cold food/drink to bring it up to body temperature. However, I'm not sure that heating ABOVE body temperature has the same effect. The body will have to get rid of the excess heat.

Reality seems to be like that.

It's a good suggestion, in game I eat all the canned food cold. No real motivation to heat it up.

That is a point.