How can you fail to start a fire using a torch ??

[Mikeloeven]

Considering a torch is a stable open flame please explain to me how it is possible to fail to start a fire using a torch and why one still needs a tinder plug or newsprint???

Generally speaking a torch can be used to easily light sticks with little effort and not require any other materials to start the fire.

Torch + Newsprint + Wood in fire barrel = 65 % chance of starting a fire :lol:

Oh did i mention this is inside a building with no wind

[SwissArmy]

Maybe the answer is your character is not very competent? --- Just kidding (though I did notice that fire making competency is part of the equation...)

An explanation of the factors affecting the fire starting/making system would be interesting....

[KD7BCH]

You get a base skill of 50, from there each time you successfully build a fire your fire base skill goes up 1 point to a max of 100. You need 3 things in the game to start the fire, tinder, fuel and igniter. The tinder type doesn't affect start chance at all, it is only a required need. This can be birchbark, cattail fuzz, tinder bundle, or newspaper or newspaper roll, then you have your choice of fuel.

The best fuel is a book, as it has the highest base chance to start to burn, next is stick and cedar wood which are equally good to each other but not as good as book, then fir wood, which is not as good as cedar or stick, and then finally reclaimed wood, which is the worst fuel to work with when starting a fire. Torch is also a potential fuel and I believe it is as good as stick but I can't recall off hand. Coal can also be used as a fuel type and is the most efficient burning the longest for the least amount of weight. However this fuel type cannot be used to start a fire and can only be added to a fire after it has burned for 30 minutes.

You then need to ignite the fire some how, matches, magnifying glass, fire striker, already lit torch or flare.

Magnifying glass

Advantages include use as long as you have sunlight and either no wind or a protected location you can make as many attempts as you have tinder to get a fire going. Even with the base skill of 50 I've never had to try more than three times to be successful with good fuel options and the magnifying glass. The magnifying glass also does not degrade or become a consumed quantity. The disadvantage of the magnifying glass is that you cannot use it indoors where there is no sunlight, cannot use it at nite, cannot use it when it is cloudy or dusk/dawn, and cannot use it in high wind areas that are not protected.

Matches

These come in cardboard and wooden. Cardboard matches are inferior to wooden matches and offer a lower base chance to start a fire. At present the condition of the matches does not affect chance they will start a fire or ignite themselves, the only thing that matters is if they are wooden or cardboard. At present they are too plentiful in the game so don't ration them before your fire starting skill is at 100.

Torches/Flares

An already lit torch can be used as well as an already lit flare. If the fire does not light these can be re-used in additional attempts for the duration of their burn-time. They can even be used to create multiple fires should you wish to do that. Flares have the advantage that they can be lit in any wind condition however carrying a fire with a torch in a high wind area will not be possible nor will getting a fire going.

Fire Striker

Depending on the condition of the item each time it is used it losses condition. Condition determines how many uses you have left. It does not determine how likely you are to start a fire and the condition has no bearing on this. The Fire striker is more effective than either wooden or cardboard matches.

Accelerant

Lampoil/lighterfluid/jerrycan. This is liquid petrol based fuel. It will dramatically boost the odds of any fuel catching fire and dramatically cut down the ignition time. Normal fires take a few minutes to get going, using accelerant is similar to using lighterfluid on the Barbie, essentially instant fire. Note: With poor fuel materials and a low fire making skill, it is possible for a fire to fail however even with accelerant use.

The best technique is to always light a torch that you took from the previous fire you created using only 1 match to ignite it. You can only make one attempt per match to start a fire but may require 2-5 matches to get a fire going depending on the quality of the materials you have available, e.g. trying to start a fire with cardboard matches (low quality) and reclaimed wood (low quality) = lower chance to ignite.

Late Game techniques, hundreds of days into a game supplies of matches and firestrikers etc will have run out. It will be necessary to continue to cook food and make water, this can be accomplished with durable fire making equipment such as the magnifying glass. Starting a fire with as little as 3 sticks, 1 tinder bundle and the magnifying glass, taking a torch from the fire, carrying it indoors, allows you to then use that torch to light a fire which can be sustained for as long as you have fuel stockpiled indoors.

TLDR

(BASE SKILL CHANCE 50-100)* (FUEL TYPE % + IGNITION TYPE %) = % to start fire

Not all Ignition types work all the time.

Some Ignition types wear out or are consumed some are durable.

Some Fuel types are better than others.

Some Fuel types cannot be used to start a fire.

Base Skill increased 1 each time successful.

[Hesha]

That is a good overview of how fire starting works. I disagree with your formula, however, as I don't think that there is any multiplication factored in. As far as I believe the formula is a simple addition of your skill plus ignition-bonus and fuel-bonus.

But to answer the question posed in the OP: There is no reason, it is simply a flaw in the game. You are right, lighting a fire with a torch should be almost as easy as using accelerant. Then again - only when using sticks, really. I'm not sure if one could easily light a full-sized log with a torch.

[KD7BCH]

That is a good overview of how fire starting works. I disagree with your formula, however, as I don't think that there is any multiplication factored in. As far as I believe the formula is a simple addition of your skill plus ignition-bonus and fuel-bonus.

But to answer the question posed in the OP: There is no reason, it is simply a flaw in the game. You are right, lighting a fire with a torch should be almost as easy as using accelerant. Then again - only when using sticks, really. I'm not sure if one could easily light a full-sized log with a torch.

Yeah it is more of an abstraction. I just needed to separate the elements. There is no actual math there. Given the fact that some fires with 97% chance to start don't I think there might be a hidden modifier. However any fire given 100% chance to start has always started for me.

I hope they continues to add depth here. Base skill should not be 50% and your maximum skill should not allow you to have 100% chance to start a fire. I think your base chance to start a fire even under the best conditions should be about 25%. Overall chance should never get to 100% either without accelerant, even with the best materials, starting a fire is not always going to work on the first try. I think your personal condition should have a modifier as well, being fatigued or cold would definitely impact your ability to do it successfully. They should also allow advanced techniques such as bow drill and associated items for you to craft to get a fire going. Relying on matches while convenient, are for survival noobs and not a legitimate long term survival strategy for the simple fact that they are consumable and not-renewable. You can make matches yes but that is also an advanced skill and not always possible in winter. Being able to make a fire daily on your own would be a great addition to the game.

[Mikeloeven]

Now if you want to see a method of fire starting that takes a fair amount of skill and has a high failure rate try a bow drill

Actually why cant you light a fire using the bow and a stick??

[toebar]

Now if you want to see a method of fire starting that takes a fair amount of skill and has a high failure rate try a bow drill

Actually why cant you light a fire using the bow and a stick??

Because you don't use a real bow as a fire bow. You just need a plain old stick and a string (boot lace, gut etc) loose enough to wrap around the spindle.

[akodo1]

Fire bow should be a craftable items separate from the actual bow, requiring only string and any uncured sapling, a stick, and a cedar log.

It makes more sense to me to craft a firebow than super-bandages using lichen.

Regarding fire building --- I am surprised at how little difference it makes building a fire in a stove vs on the ground. Stove fire should be MUCH easier to get started.

Torch...how can you fail?

One time I was helping clean up a bunch of branches cut off from trees around a field, on a snowy October day. plan was to pull them into the field a ways and put them in a pile and burn them to dispose of them. 2 guys had newspaper and a bit of gas and matches and couldn't get a fire going. I laughed and said let me do it. I broke up stuff, made a dense pile, put a bit of paper in lit a match and soon had it burning, and then they piled the stuff on.

Later on as we worked further from the existing fire we decided to start a new pile and new fire. One guy went and got a couple burning branches. and walks over and proceeds to fail to start the new pile on fire. Oh he could start the newspaper, but it would burn out before the branches would catch.

So yes, torch in game not being 100% fire starting technique is okay.

[KD7BCH]

I agree it should much harder to start a fire on the ground outdoors than inside, even the difference between the fishing shanty and the cabins with a fireplace should be different. The base file skill you have is too high to start with. Without accelerant the chance to start any fire should not be 100% on first try no matter how skilled you are because it just isn't. However it can continue to improve with each fire started I have no objection to that.

[Hesha]

Of course a torch doesn't make it work automatically, but it should be better than using a match. A lot better. Also a torch is not a burning branch. Especially, as in your story, when the branches are fresh / wet.

[KD7BCH]

Of course a torch doesn't make it work automatically, but it should be better than using a match. A lot better. Also a torch is not a burning branch. Especially, as in your story, when the branches are fresh / wet.

Torches are better, they allow you to make multiple attempts with one match lighting the torch and a torch burning for the long time that they do. But yeah a higher base % is probably a good point.