Stalker v.233-236 is outstanding!

[Naut]

A lot of my hunting I do using flares, torches, or simply a knife or a hatchet. I'll scout locations, and charge deer so they run scared in the direction of wolves, then I'll scare off the wolf, or fight it if I have no other choice, because I always walk away the winner. The most making the rifle more rare, or ammo more rare would do is cost me a few extra bandages..

Exactly. But you dont only lose bandages. You lose cloth, antiseptic and health (and maybe torches and flares, and a tiny bit of scrap metal). Which means that you have traded food, gut and skin for far more than before.

Putting the rifle in bunkers not only means that your trade for food etc. is more expensive, it also means you have a motivation to find bunkers, and explore the map. Exploring the map in itself is way more expensive on ressources than just staying where you are and sleep through everything.

[Denyo]

Hey,guys!! Scyzara informed me about this topic ongoing and I can see here very interesting disscussions going on.I would also give some feedback about how to make stalker mode more interesting,as I was thinking of that quite a few times.

First of all,I must say new updates already brought great changes and challenges.I can say that,as amazing chain of events made me die coz of freezing to death in my long ranged run. :lol: :lol: I was at day 326 and died at Three Strikes Farmstead.Fully equipped,well fed,best clothing,bear bedroll...but still chain of events made me do mistake after mistake,which were cruely punished.

And that is what I would like developers to do.Inplement chain of events,so we players will have more to think,how to resolve dangerous situations and pull out ourselves from troubles.Let me give some examples,so things will be clearly understood,what I want to say.

1.When we walk in blizzard,the aside blowing wind would push us off outlined the way.So,even if we would know exact direction,where we should walk towards shelter,wind would make us miss it and we could not notice,of course,that we went off the outlined way.That would make things more intense and lots of unexpected situations.

2.Events,happening to us,should be chained.If we get tired,then sudden fog should follow "exhausted" event,and next thing in chain of events: wolf would sense our tirednes and vunerability,so he would come to investigate even from far away and sneak on us.So,we would not have to deal only with tiredness,which would slow our movement,but also with fog and incoming wolf at same time.

In short- When we would jump into danger,another danger would follow and then another danger would follow,and then anothe,...etc.Sudden bad surprises right on times,when we would be exposed and vunerable.

It is not that big change,but I am sure that would have huge impact on everyone`s survival.When we need a solution or something to save us,and we don`t get that solution,wandering arround desperately,that would make such intense playing and really alot of thinking.And due to those chained events every good strategy could break appart like house of cards.Nothing in game would not be definitely.

This is what I would add,from aspect of my wieving of game challnenge.

[Majales]

-Indoor temperature is colder requiring fires to be lit unless wearing the best of clothing.

Indoor temperature = outside temperature minus windchill.

+1

Indoor temperatures are pretty gentle right now. They shouldn't be.

You will freeze and probably die during first few nights, if inner temperatures would be the same as outer temp. Or your game life will be very hard. If you don't have hatchet, then harvesting of wood is a long process. I think, that now it's 45 mins for one piece of a hardwood. And you will need to maintain fire whole day, if you want to unfreeze after return from trip and not waste matches.

[Incariuz]

Exactly. But you dont only lose bandages. You lose cloth, antiseptic and health (and maybe torches and flares, and a tiny bit of scrap metal). Which means that you have traded food, gut and skin for far more than before.

Putting the rifle in bunkers not only means that your trade for food etc. is more expensive, it also means you have a motivation to find bunkers, and explore the map. Exploring the map in itself is way more expensive on ressources than just staying where you are and sleep through everything.

I find there is an over abundance of medical supplies for the most part, so it doesn't have a big impact, but I will at least agree that more incentive for exploration is a good idea. On the thought of it, I'm curious what people would think of random spawning/despawning corpses every so often. I mean, picture that loot in general is made more rare in the game, because if you guys play anything like me, you have an entire map looted in a few days, and then there is little reason to travel. So rare loot, with dead bodies spawning every 10-20 days or something, then despawning after a few days, giving incentive to explore for loot. It could make sense that other survivors may have been passing through and got caught in a blizzard and froze to death, leaving behind a bit of clothing or food, maybe a really low chance of rare items, bullets, knives, etc. Sorry if that was written confusing, still waking up.

You will freeze and probably die during first few nights, if inner temperatures would be the same as outer temp. Or your game life will be very hard. If you don't have hatchet, then harvesting of wood is a long process. I think, that now it's 45 mins for one piece of a hardwood. And you will need to maintain fire whole day, if you want to unfreeze after return from trip and not waste matches.

I've spawned in the middle of a blizzard, to end up freezing, get attacked by a wolf, be reduced to 13% health and make it to a structure in game that was too cold to survive with starting clothes (the barnhouse). Yet against all odds, I survived, and it felt great. However, that was a really rare occurrence for me. A lot of houses with woodstoves and fireplaces have wood in them to start, so I don't think it adds too much extra difficulty. However it does give a player more to do in order to survive in the long run, instead of just hunting. The game after a certain amount of days survived boils down to nothing more then just getting food, until the time comes a player decides to move to a new map for more looting. I'd still suggest to just keep the colder feature to Stalker though.

[Naut]

I find there is an over abundance of medical supplies for the most part, so it doesn't have a big impact, but I will at least agree that more incentive for exploration is a good idea. On the thought of it, I'm curious what people would think of random spawning/despawning corpses every so often. I mean, picture that loot in general is made more rare in the game, because if you guys play anything like me, you have an entire map looted in a few days, and then there is little reason to travel. So rare loot, with dead bodies spawning every 10-20 days or something, then despawning after a few days, giving incentive to explore for loot. It could make sense that other survivors may have been passing through and got caught in a blizzard and froze to death, leaving behind a bit of clothing or food, maybe a really low chance of rare items, bullets, knives, etc. Sorry if that was written confusing, still waking up.

Yes i agree on meds, too much of them. Do you even use Antibiotics? I never had to, i never get sick. As for antiseptics, if you would have to fight against wolves without rifle, your supply on antiseptics will surely be more of importance than before. Your idea with random corpse spawns is nice, what i dont like is the idea of an endless supply of anything due to that. There should be an finite amount of ressources, otherwise there wouldnt be a motive to leave the map eventually. I would even go so far and say that the wildlife shouldnt respawn at all. Sure, if a wolf kills a deer, those should respawn. But when the player kills something, it should be decimated from the map forever.

One thing i like about the game is to know there is an end coming, and you just try to avoid it aslong as possible.

[octavian]

You will freeze and probably die during first few nights, if inner temperatures would be the same as outer temp. Or your game life will be very hard. (...) And you will need to maintain fire whole day, if you want to unfreeze after return from trip and not waste matches.

It's Stalker ain't it? If we don't try it, how do we know how hard it would be, speculating? Just try it. Can't they fork it and make it optional to test even? And difficulty scales temperature, it's fair to show up in all three. Nobody said Pilgrim is hard but some players wish a rousing Pilgrim minus the wildlife of Voyageur and this could do it. Next, taking your sleeping bag to bed for extra warmth at the cost of extra condition loss on it and your clothes. Make that creature useful apart from being a walking meat aisle. I'm looking at you, bear.

[Naut]

You will freeze and probably die during first few nights, if inner temperatures would be the same as outer temp. Or your game life will be very hard. (...) And you will need to maintain fire whole day, if you want to unfreeze after return from trip and not waste matches.

It's Stalker ain't it? If we don't try it, how do we know how hard it would be, speculating? Just try it. Can't they fork it and make it optional to test even? And difficulty scales temperature, it's fair to show up in all three. Nobody said Pilgrim is hard but some players wish a rousing Pilgrim minus the wildlife of Voyageur and this could do it. Next, taking your sleeping bag to bed for extra warmth at the cost of extra condition loss on it and your clothes. Make that creature useful apart from being a walking meat aisle. I'm looking at you, bear.

Im looking forward to your 2000 words on stalker 8-)

[Incariuz]

Yes i agree on meds, too much of them. Do you even use Antibiotics? I never had to, i never get sick. As for antiseptics, if you would have to fight against wolves without rifle, your supply on antiseptics will surely be more of importance than before. Your idea with random corpse spawns is nice, what i dont like is the idea of an endless supply of anything due to that. There should be an finite amount of ressources, otherwise there wouldnt be a motive to leave the map eventually. I would even go so far and say that the wildlife shouldnt respawn at all. Sure, if a wolf kills a deer, those should respawn. But when the player kills something, it should be decimated from the map forever.

One thing i like about the game is to know there is an end coming, and you just try to avoid it aslong as possible.

I never use antibiotics either, I've eaten raw meat and food as low as 20% and still haven't gotten food poisoning. Painkillers are almost never used either, in a total of about 150 game days, I've sprained an ankle 2 times. Also, I guess I can agree on the rifle being more rare for both exploration reasons, and to use antiseptic more often. As for wildlife not respawning, I'd have no issue with that. Would make hunting a little more interesting. In addition, perhaps increase the migration areas for wildlife, so you don't always know the specific area wildlife would be in. Doing so could also remedy issues where certain areas of certain maps are always safe to travel.

Personally, I don't expect to survive forever, the higher odds there are for me dying, the happier I am, lol. Anything that gives us more reason to explore, or gives us work to do so we're not sleeping constantly is ok by me. I guess at this point, this is my list of changes I think could make things more interesting.

-Make rifle/ammo more rare (limit one rifle per map).

-Add random frozen corpse spawns every 10-30 days on map (if clothing and food, etc is made more rare) despawn bodies after a few days (even if not looted).

-Make indoors colder (the idea of outside temperature without windchill is good).

-Reduce wildlife respawn (possibly remove respawning altogether).

-Increase odds of food poisoning from raw meat, cooked meat under 50% condition, and packaged foods under 25%.

-Increase odds of sprained ankle on steep slopes and from falls over 5-10 feet.

-Fir and Cedar Wood foraged outdoors needs to be cured for 24-48 hours before burnable (or perhaps reduce odds of starting fire if it's not cured).

-Carcasses not harvested in one go may end up having wolves feeding on them when you return.

-Random chance for arrows to break on impact.

-Make workbenches more rare? Or even have a spawn chance for them? So one game it may be in say the Camp Office, another time in Trapper's, etc etc...

I know some of those may not have been liked by a few of you guys, but I'd still like to keep them open for discussion.

[Naut]

In addition, perhaps increase the migration areas for wildlife, so you don't always know the specific area wildlife would be in. Doing so could also remedy issues where certain areas of certain maps are always safe to travel.

Good idea

-Make rifle/ammo more rare (limit one rifle per map).

Agreed (maybe only in bunkers? That way bunkers arent just a kind of easteregg, but a really nice achievement to find.

-Add random frozen corpse spawns every 10-30 days on map (if clothing and food, etc is made more rare) despawn bodies after a few days (even if not looted).

-Make indoors colder (the idea of outside temperature without windchill is good).

-Reduce wildlife respawn (possibly remove respawning altogether).

-Increase odds of food poisoning from raw meat, cooked meat under 50% condition, and packaged foods under 25%.

Agreed

-Increase odds of sprained ankle on steep slopes and from falls over 5-10 feet.

Personally i had quite a few sprained ankles, but it was due carelessly sprinting along ridges while i was searching for bunkers. So while i agree on making it harder in general, i think this mechanic is working as it is.

-Fir and Cedar Wood foraged outdoors needs to be cured for 24-48 hours before burnable (or perhaps reduce odds of starting fire if it's not cured).

-Carcasses not harvested in one go may end up having wolves feeding on them when you return.

Excellent ideas!

-Random chance for arrows to break on impact.

-Make workbenches more rare? Or even have a spawn chance for them? So one game it may be in say the Camp Office, another time in Trapper's, etc etc...

I know some of those may not have been liked by a few of you guys, but I'd still like to keep them open for discussion.

Agreed i like them.

[Majales]

You will freeze and probably die during first few nights, if inner temperatures would be the same as outer temp. Or your game life will be very hard. (...) And you will need to maintain fire whole day, if you want to unfreeze after return from trip and not waste matches.

It's Stalker ain't it? If we don't try it, how do we know how hard it would be, speculating? Just try it. Can't they fork it and make it optional to test even? And difficulty scales temperature, it's fair to show up in all three. Nobody said Pilgrim is hard but some players wish a rousing Pilgrim minus the wildlife of Voyageur and this could do it. Next, taking your sleeping bag to bed for extra warmth at the cost of extra condition loss on it and your clothes. Make that creature useful apart from being a walking meat aisle. I'm looking at you, bear.

That's no speculation. I was forced to stay in a fishing hut second day in a new game and I was able only to harvest one piece of a hardwood, put it into a fire and repeat. Yes, after some time you are able harvest two pieces instead of one, but you can't do much more. No sleeping, no food and equipment gathering. You can try it for yourself. Fishing hut is "outside temperature without wind" variant.

[Naut]

That's no speculation. I was forced to stay in a fishing hut second day in a new game and I was able only to harvest one piece of a hardwood, put it into a fire and repeat. Yes, after some time you are able harvest two pieces instead of one, but you can't do much more. No sleeping, no food and equipment gathering. You can try it for yourself. Fishing hut is "outside temperature without wind" variant.

To be fair, if you think about it, it should be warmer indoors, not only because of no windchill, but because the house gets heated by the sun, and due to isolation the heat is trapped inside. So there should be atleast a small bonus to temperature.

[Scyzara]

That's no speculation. I was forced to stay in a fishing hut second day in a new game and I was able only to harvest one piece of a hardwood, put it into a fire and repeat. Yes, after some time you are able harvest two pieces instead of one, but you can't do much more. No sleeping, no food and equipment gathering. You can try it for yourself. Fishing hut is "outside temperature without wind" variant.

I agree with Majales on this one. Outside temperature minus windchill would be too cold to survive, not only during early game but in general. Remember the night blizzard change a few weeks ago: Temperatures can drop down to -50°C (at zero windchill) during blizzards now!

As the current fires only give a maximum of +20°C per fire, you couldn't survive in a house with only one stove. Not even to mention places like Jackrabbit Island without any stove at all.

I wouldn't mind slightly lower temperatures inside houses, but inside=outside temperature wouldn't work at all right now. It would (at least) require a massive overhaul of the current fire bonus temperatures and the introduction of portable stoves.

[octavian]

Fishing hut is "outside temperature without wind" variant.

Good point. I'll give fishing hut Stalker survival a go.

[Incariuz]

Fishing hut is "outside temperature without wind" variant.

Good point. I'll give fishing hut Stalker survival a go.

Gonna try in a few minutes as well, and I'm even gonna go as far to not collect axes or knives just to see how long I can last.

[Scyzara]

Gonna try in a few minutes as well, and I'm even gonna go as far to not collect axes or knives just to see how long I can last.

I can already tell you that: Just as long as no blizzard at night/early morning occurs and temperatures inside the fishing hut drop more than 20 degrees lower than the current fire temperature bonus.

Tried living inside a fishing hut and keeping a fire burning 24/7 myself about two months ago. It's possible to keep the fire burning all the time, but you cannot survive the night/early morning blizzards inside a hut any more (like you could prior to V. 200 or something).

[octavian]

It's possible to keep the fire burning all the time, but you cannot survive the night/early morning blizzards inside a hut any more (like you could prior to V. 200 or something).

That's because you'd think hugging a box of metal in which you burn wood with fire for hours is enough, but you'd be wrong :roll:

[Scyzara]

I was merely describing how things are now, not questioning or justifying them. If you know a way how to survive in a -50°C cold fishing hut with only one stove and the current fire mechanics, please tell me.

[octavian]

I was just telling how things are now, not questioning or justifying them.

Didn't say you were.

If you know a way how to survive in a -50°C cold fishing hut with only one stove and the current fire mechanics, please tell me.

I've got a few ideas, I'll find one or lose too much time trying then I'll make a new thread not to hijack this one.

[Incariuz]

Well I survived 2 days and 20 hours, but there are many factors to take into account other then temperature. I avoided entering buildings altogether, and spent a lot of my time starving, trying to survive off the few scraps of food I found, and cat tail stalks. Keeping a fire going constantly wasn't much of an issue, collecting food was, and in the end, when under 30% due to starvation, the cold did take me because my clothes were in complete ruin from trying to find food. Here are screenshots of the temperature and my clothes when the cold took me. I had a lousy 1C warmth bonus from them.

If it matters to you at all, I've noticed crouching/prone beside the woodstove in the fishing hut actually keeps you warmer, otherwise the wind chill does seem to effect your temperature. But overall, if not for starvation issues, and lack of supplies from not entering buildings, I think survival would be fairly easy with temperature changes in houses.

Here is a copy of my log if interested.

[spoil]Day 1:

Afternoon: Freezing

Afternoon: Started fire.

Afternoon: Went to sleep.

Afternoon: Not Freezing

Evening: Woke up after sleeping 1 hour

Evening: Drank 0.40 L potable water.

Night: Ate Salty Crackers.

Night: Drank 0.46 L potable water.

Night: Went to sleep.

Twilight: Woke up after sleeping 4 hours

Twilight: Drank 0.23 L potable water.

Twilight: Went to sleep.

Twilight: Woke up after sleeping 2 hours

Morning: Starving

Morning: Drank 0.39 L potable water.

Morning: Freezing

Morning: Failed attempt to start fire.

Morning: Flare ruined.

Morning: Discovered Lake Trail.

Morning: Started fire.

Morning: Went to sleep.

Morning: Not Freezing

Morning: Woke up after sleeping 1 hour

Afternoon: Discovered Camp Office.

Afternoon: Discovered Mystery Lake.

Afternoon: Ate Cat Tail Stalk.

Afternoon: Not Starving

Afternoon: Ate Cat Tail Stalk.

Afternoon: Ate Cat Tail Stalk.

Afternoon: Ate Cat Tail Stalk.

Afternoon: Freezing

Afternoon: Ate Cat Tail Stalk.

Afternoon: Started fire.

Afternoon: Drank 0.40 L potable water.

Afternoon: Not Freezing

Afternoon: Went to sleep.

Distance travelled during day: 1.25 km

Distance travelled during night: 0.00 km

Day 2:

Made it to day 2

Afternoon: Woke up after sleeping 1 hour

Afternoon: Went to sleep.

Evening: Woke up after sleeping 4 hours

Evening: Drank 0.42 L potable water.

Evening: Starving

Night: Freezing

Night: Started fire.

Night: Went to sleep.

Night: Not Freezing

Twilight: Woke up after sleeping 2 hours

Twilight: Went to sleep.

Twilight: Woke up after sleeping 2 hours

Twilight: Drank 0.21 L potable water.

Morning: Drank 0.58 L potable water.

Morning: Smashed Pinnacle Peaches.

Morning: Ate Pinnacle Peaches.

Morning: Not Starving

Morning: Ate Candy Bar.

Morning: Drank 0.02 L potable water.

Morning: Went to sleep.

Morning: Woke up after sleeping 2 hours

Morning: Went to sleep.

Afternoon: Woke up after sleeping 2 hours

Distance travelled during day: 0.86 km

Distance travelled during night: 0.01 km

Day 3:

Made it to day 3

Afternoon: Starving

Afternoon: Drank 0.47 L potable water.

Evening: Drank 0.27 L potable water.

Evening: Ate Cat Tail Stalk.

Evening: Not Starving

Evening: Ate Cat Tail Stalk.

Evening: Ate Cat Tail Stalk.

Evening: Ate Cat Tail Stalk.

Evening: Ate Cat Tail Stalk.

Evening: Ate Cat Tail Stalk.

Evening: Ate Cat Tail Stalk.

Evening: Drank 0.23 L potable water.

Evening: Went to sleep.

Twilight: Woke up after sleeping 5 hours

Twilight: Went to sleep.

Morning: Woke up after sleeping 4 hours

Morning: Drank 0.43 L potable water.

Morning: Freezing

Morning: Jeans ruined.

Morning: Starving

Morning: Went to sleep.

Morning: You faded into The Long Dark...[/spoil]

[Scyzara]

I've got a few ideas, I'll find one or lose too much time trying then I'll make a new thread not to hijack this one.

Looking forward to that.

The only two ways I personally found (half-way) feasible were:

A) build a second fire outside of the cabin + sleep inside the cabin (bearskin bedroll) for one hour each (changing wind directions blew out my outside fire constantly and I had to reignite it every 1-2 hours)

or B) drink tea/coffee all the time.

Both solutions wouldn't be suitable for long-term survival in outside-temperature houses, unfortunately.

[octavian]

You're giving it away Scyzara. Imagine! Meat becomes hot on cooking. Water becomes hot on boiling. Plus all those tasty, hot cans of food, with coffee and tea as a bonus, too easy :twisted: Now get out of here Stalker :lol:

P.S.

Day 1 log:[spoil]Day 1:

Morning: Discovered Camp Office.

Morning: Discovered Lake Trail.

Morning: Discovered Mystery Lake (Western Access).

Morning: Discovered Lake Cabins.

Morning: Discovered Lake Cabins.

Morning: Drank Orange Soda.

Morning: Drank Summit Soda.

Morning: Freezing

Morning: Started fire.

Morning: Not Freezing

Morning: Drank Cup of Herbal Tea.

Morning: Freezing

Morning: Failed attempt to start fire.

Morning: Failed attempt to start fire.

Morning: Started fire.

Morning: Not Freezing

Morning: Ate Pork and Beans.

Afternoon: Drank Stacy's Grape Soda.

Afternoon: Discovered Mystery Lake.

Afternoon: Went to sleep.

Afternoon: Woke up after sleeping 1 hour

Afternoon: Discovered Derailment.

Afternoon: Went to sleep.

Afternoon: Woke up after sleeping 1 hour

Evening: Drank 0.47 L potable water.

Evening: Discovered Train Loading Area.

Evening: Started fire.

Evening: Discovered Train Bridge.

Evening: Discovered Carter Hydro Dam.

Evening: Wolf attack!

Evening: Experiencing significant blood loss.

Evening: At risk for infected wound.

Evening: Ate Venison (Cooked).

Evening: Wolf attack!

Evening: Killed a Wolf

Evening: Flare ruined.

Evening: Drank 0.27 L potable water.

Evening: Started fire.

Night: Encumbered

Night: Ate Wolf Meat (Cooked).

Night: Not Encumbered

Night: Encumbered

Night: Went to sleep.

Morning: Dehydrated

Morning: Woke up after sleeping 8 hours[/spoil]

Inventory after Day 1

[Incariuz]

Ok, I'm gonna try outside survival again. This time I'll go indoors strictly for obtaining supplies, but I won't stay indoors longer then needed to loot, or craft. Still going to stick to not using hatchets, and even knives, just to see how hard it gets.

Edit: Ok, so far I've survived a total of 11 days, 3 hours and 58 minutes outdoors without a hatchet and a knife. I've searched every possible location except the dam, found the secret bunker, and the game is really picking on me, lol. Finding clothes is a proving to be a challenge, still have no coat, but I've managed. The one thing out of all this that I've learned is... Playing without a knife and hatchet sucks where food is concerned. So much of deer and wolves wasn't harvested, I opted for fur, hide and guts over meat a lot. Almost have them cured enough to make wolf skin jacket and deer hide boots. Also haven't been able to fish, forgot I needed a tool to break the ice. So in the end, my overall opinion is still in favor of colder temps indoors, managing to survive outdoors for over 10 days without a knife and hatchet may have been reasonably tough, but it's doable, so considering I came across 4 hatchets and 3 knives in 5 days, nobody would even have to endure such hardship for too long. To conclude this post... Here is a picture of the many wolves I killed in front of my fishing hut.

[Majales]

What weather did you have? I was forced to stay in Alan's cave big part of a day and a whole night yesterday, due to two big blizzards, and I survived only because I had two fires going during night. My clothing temperature bonus was +5°C. Windchill is in Alan's cave constantly -1°C. As Scyzara wrote, this isn't viable option in houses without stove or fireplace or some portable heat source. You could be frozen meat, if you'll be catched by a blizzard in a lake cabin. And I died in one run in a fishing hut during night. Just froze to the death.

[Scyzara]

From this point on, if cooking made meat and water hot you would have no problem.

If only this sentence wasn't in conditional mood! ;p

But all right, all right, I'm outta here - have to send Geralt kill some more monsters!

[octavian]

If only this sentence wasn't in conditional mood!

If only I had understood the question, what's one change that will make Stalker harder. Some said lower indoor temperature, I agreed, some said you can't change this, I said you can, if this other change also happens, however since its another change, they can't change it, because the question was, what's one change :roll: