discussion The Cougar feels unfinished

[Ghurcb]

The latest update is great, Hinterland really outdid themselves with the Misery mode, the new region and the new part of Tales. However, there is one part of Last Horizon that seems underwhelming to me. This isn't some "Hinterland are lazy and are taking too long to release new things, episode 5 when" complaint. This is feedback from a loving fan of the game.

When I heard that you won't see the cougar coming before it attacks you, I didn't think it would be THAT literal. You literally cannot see it coming, because the cougar just spawns on top of you and the struggle animation begins. Cougars don't exist on the map like wolves or bears. The cougar is not a "living creature". It's just a cutscene on a timer. And you can only kill it during the cutscene after you've been mauled. The cougar appears in front of you out of thin air, attacks you, and if you don't kill it before the cutscene is over, it disappears again.

If you ask me, this is not not a good idea on many levels.

First, the "signs" of cougar presence in your region are just UI. The game tells you that a cougar is encroaching on your territory with text appearing on your screen. And then in your map menu you can check how many days are left before it appears. When it is in your region, a red cougar symbol appears on the screen.
Frankly, I expected there to be some in-world signs, like claw marks on trees, for example. Warning being done by the UI messages is very unimmersive. I don't want my character to have a cougar-radar in their head.
If you ask me, all of the cougar-related UI elements should be toggleable in the display settings, like the timberwolf morale meter. Maybe even turned off by default. There should also be other in-world signs of the cougar's impending arrival.

Second, the cougar is not an actual creature with an AI. Ideally, it should be always present in the region it "encroached on", stalking the player from far away, hiding, running away if you spot it, eventually, when it gets close enough it should rush at you. That would be the ideal, but I'm afraid that would be too difficult to add to the game. At the very least, the cougar should spawn about 20-30 meters away from the player behind their back if there are no obstacles in the way (maybe appearing out of the snow, as if it was hiding under it), and closing this distance in ~2 seconds, giving you at least a moment to save yourself. The way things are right now, if you want to kill a cougar, you would HAVE to be attacked by it first.  You would WANT to be attacked, because there is no "clean" way to obtain its hide or claws. 

Third problem is that cougars have a very unclear purpose. I thought they were meant to discourage players from staying in the same region for too long. But if you want to stay in the same region for too long, you can just disable them. So what it means, is cougars do the opposite. If you want to get the cougar hide wrap, or the cougar claw knife, you HAVE TO stay in the same region for a long time, even if usually you would travel from region to region, exploring the large and beautiful world Hinterland created.

I love this game, and I have nothing but respect and gratitude for its creators, but this aspect of the update REALLY needs more work. This is just my opinion, if anyone disagrees with it, PLEASE tell me why. If anyone agrees, write about it in the responses to let Hinterland know.

[Ghurcb]

The way I'd address having to wait in the same place for a long time to get access to cougar gear is by making a few parts of existing regions "cougar territory", where you'd be stalked constantly. With this addition, you could obtain cougar gear by exploring the world.

[Talavaj]

I think destroying the den should simply spawn the cougar in the world, giving those who want to hunt it for the loot an opportunity to do so.
That way the core mechanic (however clumsy it may be) remains in the game, but it also allows us to get the loot without having to get mauled first.

Or perhaps, make the first noise maker trigger a timer that makes the cougar to appear IF you don't throw the remaining two inside to collapse the den outright.
With it now becoming a cheaper (but more dangerous) option to get rid of the cougar for a while.

[Pencil]

58 minutes ago, Talavaj said:

I think destroying the den should simply spawn the cougar in the world, giving those who want to hunt it for the loot an opportunity to do so.
That way the core mechanic (however clumsy it may be) remains in the game, but it also allows us to get the loot without having to get mauled first.

Or perhaps, make the first noise maker trigger a timer that makes the cougar to appear IF you don't throw the remaining two inside to collapse the den outright.
With it now becoming a cheaper (but more dangerous) option to get rid of the cougar for a while.

Actually, the first noisemaker in the den DOES trigger the cougar threat. So *technically* you don't have to stay a month in a region to spawn the cougar. You can alternatively find the den, throw one noisemaker in to activate the cougar, and wait for the attack. But obviously that's not ideal and it's probably really hard to find the den so it's not a solution to the "stay in this region to spawn a cougar." 

[Talavaj]

34 minutes ago, Pencil said:

Actually, the first noisemaker in the den DOES trigger the cougar threat. So *technically* you don't have to stay a month in a region to spawn the cougar. You can alternatively find the den, throw one noisemaker in to activate the cougar, and wait for the attack. But obviously that's not ideal and it's probably really hard to find the den so it's not a solution to the "stay in this region to spawn a cougar." 

Yeah, I know about that one. I'm considering to keep a stash with high protection gear by the den and just bait the cougar like that when I need to.
But since you have to get mauled either way, it doesn't feel like a real solution.

I think it would be fair for the cougar to actually appear in the world when you attack its den, because in a way it is the player getting a jump on the cougar instead.

[Ghurcb]

52 minutes ago, Talavaj said:

I think it would be fair for the cougar to actually appear in the world when you attack its den, because in a way it is the player getting a jump on the cougar instead.

Well, for that Hinterland would have to make a Cougar AI, which is sort of the main problem, as it seems.

[Sherri]

6 hours ago, Ghurcb said:

When I heard that you won't see the cougar coming before it attacks you, I didn't think it would be THAT literal. You literally cannot see it coming, because the cougar just spawns on top of you and the struggle animation begins. Cougars don't exist on the map like wolves or bears. The cougar is not a "living creature". It's just a cutscene on a timer. And you can only kill it during the cutscene after you've been mauled. The cougar appears in front of you out of thin air, attacks you, and if you don't kill it before the cutscene is over, it disappears again.

Aww man... that's too bad to hear that. I was hoping it would be an ultra stealthy creature that I could still shoot/hunt if I got really lucky in spotting it. Or else why would the video show the player looking around frantically trying to see it... if it's not see-able?

Also, from the video it implied that some of the signs of the cougar were things like dead rabbits on the ground that presumably the cougar got a hold of. Is that not the case?

I do think that it serves it's purpose of encouraging players to be a bit nomadic. Yes you can disable the feature... but, it's nice to have an in-game incentive to keep moving regularly. You can stay put the first time to try and get it's materials.... but after that the risk-benefit of staying in place gets less clear and for me at least it would push me to keep changing home base location.

Edited June 25 by Sherri

[Ghurcb]

1 hour ago, Sherri said:

Also, from the video it implied that some of the signs of the cougar were things like dead rabbits on the ground that presumably the cougar got a hold of. Is that not the case?

I can't prove a negative, but I was walking around Forlorn Muskeg for 2 days after the cougar arrived, and I found nothing I'd consider a sign. And even if I did find a rabbit carcass, who's to say it wasn't killed by wolves?