Rough loot quantities on stalker(ish*) at 100% discovery of Great Bear Island

[Leeanda]

9 hours ago, Strelok said:

Thank you 🙂. But why do you think that it was trouble?  I just wanted to play a custom game and want all the goodies and discover every location. And after that it actually took me only 30 min to run down the numbers of the loot in my base in PV + 5 rock caches filled up and sorted. 3x lenght of day multiplier allowed me to do all this looting and exploring in a reasonable time. So no big trouble at all. The only trouble is that i found out that its more loot as i expected and much easier because of both lenght of day x3 and loot settings. So next time i will try another custom game with 2x lenght of day and stalker loot closest to interloper. Additionally i will use mods, especially the mod called Extreme Temperature Drop. There i can set the maximum Temperature drop to something like -25°C or even -30°C 🥶 (-20 is interloper). And eventually i use Animal Behavior mod to experiment with bears 🐻 charge at 100m just for fun.

The reason to use mods for me is that i would like to have more than 1x length of day multiplier but still challenging. With vanilla settings i cannot achieve that. So i have to use mods to make it more challenging while keeping length of day above 1x. 4x and 3x now i can say is really too easy. And it feels a bit off in regard of balance. As someone wrote about it: 2x could be the sweat spot if you dont like 1x.

The first game was vanilla voyager 500 days. Then i did a 4x lenght of day custom which i stopped soon because of other settings i didnt like. Then i started this 3x custom with some harsher settings.

The main conclusion for me is, that it is not the loot settings which is the most challenging thing. Its the lenght of day multi which is crucial. But i dont like the 1x. So i have to try further setups to get my balanced game.

You not only scoured the entire map but from what I gather dragged all said loot back to PV!  You have to do a really thorough search to  get everything !  

[UpUpAway95]

4 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Possible - yes.  Needs more tests to really confirm anything.

Broken Railroad Save 3 - Baseline Resources Medium, Harvestable Plant Availability Medium - 120 Rose Hips (/24 = 5 teas), 27 Reshi mushrooms (/2 = 12.5 teas), 27 lichens (/3 = 9 dressings); 76 cat tails, 4 maple saplings and 4 birch saplings.  Changing the Harvestable Plant Availability does have an effect, but it is doubtful that the Baseline Resource setting has any effect, with the possible exception of saplings which may be controlled by baseline resource setting rather than harvestable plant setting.

I'm still not doing precise counting of other loot, but impressions are that it is highly variable from previous two saves even though all those loot settings are identical for all three saves.  Impossible to see any sort of consistency at this point.  Of note - no heavy hammer this save, only 1 tin of coffee, only 1 cowichan sweater and 1 pair of snow pants.  Only 1 tin of coffee, no stims in either save where Baseline Resources was medium.  In addition, both a rifle and a bow (and 2 arrows) were found in this save that were not found iin the previous Baseline Medium save.  The revolver was found both times.

Correction to paragraph 2.  Save 1 with Baseline Medium had 5 tins of coffee and Saves 2 (Baseline Low) had only 1 tin, as did Save 3 (Baseline Medium).

ETA:  Save 4 (Baseline Low, Harvestable Plants Medium) is still in progress.

I'm also developing a strategy for reliably counting the other loot.  Inordinately rapid decay rates (probably a bug) when Baseline Resources are set to low could be a problem unless I count every item as I first pick it up.  The rationale of taking everything back to a base and then counting it may result in error due to some ruined items disappearing when put into containers. For example, I've noticed that two of three stims I collected in Save 2 and some of the other meds have disappeared from the container in which I was storing them even though it has been only about 10 in-game days.  Not even sure why the stims disappeared at all... I thought they weren't supposed to decay, but I've honestly never paid close attention to storing them before.  Correction:  Both missing stims have been found (accidentally put into a different container), along with (probably) all of the other missing meds (X transfers all of a category into the container - never noticed that before).

Edited January 28, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[piddy3825]

14 hours ago, Strelok said:

Yes i found them all. But that was really not easy. Weeks for only that.

So you found all the prepper's caches, outstanding!  I'm sure that took a lot of additional effort considering they can be pretty well hidden and the one in BlackRock can be very difficult to locate.   In your opinion, considering the items you found, is it worth the effort for the average player to spend time seeking them out?  

14 hours ago, Strelok said:

Eventually i dont understand what you mean by that. But if you have found 14 rifles or 35 storm lanterns, then you start scratching your head. Or what you do mean?

In regards to my question as to your ah ha moment, it would appear that you didn't expect to find 35 storm lanterns as you explored the Island?  Or did you?  Considering I almost always find at least one if not two rifles on every map, finding 14 rifles wouldn't surprise me.  But I never would have expected finding 160 servings of coffee on the island in one play through.  Even considering the abundance of coffee tins to be found in the wreckage on Timberwolf Mountain where I presume you found the majority of the tins on a single map.  So was there anything else you discovered in your travels that didn't meet or exceeded your expectations?  For one, I'm surprised you didn't find more rifle ammo and from your results you found 3 times as much revolver ammo, I find that to be significant.  I'm now curious as to what the ratio of spent casings would be?  rifle vs. revolver casings?  Did keep track of those by chance?

At any rate, I find it interesting that there can be such prolific quantities of some items in game, like sewing kits for example and such limited quantities of other items like only 5 mag lenses by comparison.  Makes me wonder if I might be overlooking some areas when I search for loot.

[UpUpAway95]

Results of Broken Railroad Only Save #4 - Baseline Resources Low and Harvestable Plant Availability Medium - 136 Rose Hips, 31 Reshi Mushrooms, 20 Lichen, 71 Cat tails, 2 Maple Saplings, and 4 Birch Saplings

Changing only the Harvestable Plant Availability from High to Medium seems to trigger about a 25% reduction in the number of available plants regardless of Baseline Resources.  More tests would have to be done, however, for these data to average out more consistently and a firmer conclusion could be reached.

For an attempt to calculate the effects of changing sliders affecting other loot items (i.e. not plants), I now plan to make a custom base file where the harvestable plant settings will remain set at high and the other loot settings will be set in accordance with the baseline resources settings (i.e. interloper levels and stalker levels as applicable) then I'll do a separate pair of runs where the Empty Container Chance Modifier is lowered by one notch on the slider.  I will not be counting harvestable plants for these runs since those are the foods I plan to live on during the run.  The weather and starting gear will be set a Pilgrim levels. Dysentry, food poisoning, and other ailments will be disabled to ensure I won't need to use any meds during the run.  Animals will be set at passive so I can focus entirely on looting.  Items will be counted an logged as I find them (just in case item decay might cause some to disappear in containers before the run is done).  I will also note whether the items as found in a container or loose or placed.  It's as accurate and scientific as I can think to make it at this point, although I don't really anticipate being able to spot much of a meaningful trend given the random nature of loot to be found in containers in this game.

Edited January 28, 2022 by UpUpAway95

[Strelok]

5 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

Considering I almost always find at least one if not two rifles on every map, finding 14 rifles wouldn't surprise me.

Mmh, you are absolutely right if i think that way. That way this is really not that strange. I think its 12 regions now, not inlcuding transition regions which also can have such things. Like Ravine etc. All that and i found 14 Rifles. Well you are right. Thats not off the charts then. I dont know why i look it at that like that. And 35 storm lanterns / 12 regions would be like 3 per region. Sounds reasonable too if i look it that way. Dammit you are right. But if it comes to how much i would actually need is another question. Because i now have 3 main bases and i would only really "need" like at least 3 rifles. Or lets say 6 because i like to have additional hunting spots like the Barn in PV or Trappers Cabin and even one extra rifle in my fishuts in CH or ML. So this way in would only need like 6 and it would not be a problem at all to just take what i need and stop gathering rifles if i have enough. But i cant leave things out there. I think i need to go to the doctor. Horder syndrome.🏥

And the funny thing about rifles in particular is that, i DID somehow know i dont need so much rifles, but me stupid thought i could just harvest the ones i dont need for scrap metals, which me stupid didnt realized that i cannot.🤫

6 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

 In your opinion, considering the items you found, is it worth the effort for the average player to spend time seeking them out? 

Yes its worth it. But its only my opinion. I dont know how other players would argue about that. If you are prepared and you already have discovered tha map beforehand (the same run) its easy but needs time to do. I did this only after i was already settled, had a base and enough supplies to do a search for prepper caches only. This is somewhat contraintuitive. Because you could need those stuff early on. But there are much easier and obvious locations to explore first. If i enter a new region, i first go short distances to obvious easy accessable locations and build up a base to operate from. Then later i did the prepper cache search. So to conclude, i didnt need them to survive. It was only a extra bonus so to speak. But its worth it nevertheless.

 

6 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

For one, I'm surprised you didn't find more rifle ammo and from your results you found 3 times as much revolver ammo, I find that to be significant.  I'm now curious as to what the ratio of spent casings would be?  rifle vs. revolver casings?  Did keep track of those by chance?

That i was not surprised of because i read somewhere that revolver ammo is plenty. My conclusion was then, rifle ammo would not be plenty. But casings i had trouble to find. Thats becasue casings are one of the most difficult items to be spottet i claim. I cannot give that number, because thats one of those things i did loose track of. But my honest estimation is like 30 revolver casings and 20 ammo casings. If you ask about how many shots i used its about 30 shots or so. From both rifle and revolver. Especially at the beginning where i am always bad at archery. A early revolver or rifle with some shots is godsend. Bow is my mid to late weapon.

 

6 hours ago, piddy3825 said:

Even considering the abundance of coffee tins to be found in the wreckage on Timberwolf Mountain where I presume you found the majority of the tins on a single map.

and

12 hours ago, Leeanda said:

You not only scoured the entire map but from what I gather dragged all said loot back to PV!  You have to do a really thorough search to  get everything !

Yes, i was even quite terrified of the abundance of loot there (TWM). To bring all down and then to PV was one of the most difficult things for me. Also it was the additonal AC loot which i had there. Also all loot from HRV and MT to ML is quite a big objective. 2 ropes from MT to ML. There you learn how to manage fatigue and when to use energy drinks etc. I think i lived in that cave between those 2 ropes from MT to ML for about 2 weeks or so to move my loot. No normal player would do that. I would even say no sane player would do that. But guess what? I dont care, i am insane.

 

Last thing to stress out again is to remember that i played at 3x length of day mulitplier. That way its not that hard. Because i know the difference to 1x lenght of day from my first 500 day voyager run where i did quite similar with the exeption that i didnt loot all AC and never visited HRV.

[Strelok]

5 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Results of Broken Railroad Only Save #4 - Baseline Resources Low and Harvestable Plant Availability Medium - 136 Rose Hips, 31 Reshi Mushrooms, 20 Lichen, 71 Cat tails, 2 Maple Saplings, and 4 Birch Saplings

Changing only the Harvestable Plant Availability from High to Medium seems to trigger about a 25% reduction in the number of available plants regardless of Baseline Resources.  More tests would have to be done, however, for these data to average out more consistently and a firmer conclusion could be reached.

For an attempt to calculate the effects of changing sliders affecting other loot items (i.e. not plants), I now plan to make a custom base file where the harvestable plant settings will remain set at high and the other loot settings will be set in accordance with the baseline resources settings (i.e. interloper levels and stalker levels as applicable) then I'll do a separate pair of runs where the Empty Container Chance Modifier is lowered by one notch on the slider.  I will not be counting harvestable plants for these runs since those are the foods I plan to live on during the run.  The weather and starting gear will be set a Pilgrim levels. Dysentry, food poisoning, and other ailments will be disabled to ensure I won't need to use any meds during the run.  Animals will be set at passive so I can focus entirely on looting.  Items will be counted an logged as I find them (just in case item decay might cause some to disappear in containers before the run is done).  I will also note whether the items as found in a container or loose or placed.  It's as accurate and scientific as I can think to make it at this point, although I don't really anticipate being able to spot much of a meaningful trend given the random nature of loot to be found in containers in this game.

Incredible stuff. Thanks for your work. 25% is quite a good hint. No matter if its 20% or 30% in reality. For me its about the great picture, the question if its rather 5 or 25 round about so to speak. Marginal or significant in words.

Dont get lost out there doing this.

[Strelok]

9 hours ago, UpUpAway95 said:

I thought they weren't supposed to decay, but I've honestly never paid close attention to storing them before.  Correction:  Both missing stims have been found (accidentally put into a different container), along with (probably) all of the other missing meds (X transfers all of a category into the container - never noticed that before).

Right, they dont decay and therefore cannot disappear. And yea, the learning curve is really good in this game. Last thing i learned that i can use the sorting by weight helps alot for cooking fish. Because they differ so much in weight and therefore cooking time. And i dont like to have a 1.5 kg fish and a 4 kg fish on those 2 pots on the same fire ever again, especially if i have multiple fires running after 20 hours of fishing.

[UpUpAway95]

1 minute ago, Strelok said:

Incredible stuff. Thanks for your work. 25% is quite a good hint. No matter if its 20% or 30% in reality. For me its about the great picture, the question if its rather 5 or 25 round about so to speak. Marginal or significant in words.

Dont get lost out there doing this.

Don't worry.  I won't.  I've finished the first "loot counting" run today and may get the other 3 done tomorrow.  We'll see if it illuminates any trend.  I'm skeptical, but one never knows... First loot run on Stalker settings had a big surprise - No matches in the zone that I could find.  The only matches I had were the 12 in my starting gear.  I did collect 2 mag lenses.  Maybe HL has done some things already to introduce more random loot and eliminate some of the "guaranteed" spawns.  I am going to recheck the regular spots for matches again just to be sure.

[piddy3825]

2 hours ago, Strelok said:

But casings i had trouble to find. Thats because casings are one of the most difficult items to be spotted i claim.

I know always carrying a fully fuled and repaired lantern can be excessively heavy considering the limited amount of carry capacity our characters have, but the light of a lit lantern almost always highlights items that might otherwise be overlooked.  Especially when looting locations that are otherwise dimly lighted even when it is bright and sunny outside.  There's something about the quality of the lantern's white lights brightness that makes it truly superior to that of torch light or a flare when it comes to looting interior cell spaces

[Strelok]

59 minutes ago, piddy3825 said:

I know always carrying a fully fuled and repaired lantern can be excessively heavy considering the limited amount of carry capacity our characters have, but the light of a lit lantern almost always highlights items that might otherwise be overlooked.  Especially when looting locations that are otherwise dimly lighted even when it is bright and sunny outside.  There's something about the quality of the lantern's white lights brightness that makes it truly superior to that of torch light or a flare when it comes to looting interior cell spaces

Very important point. That is really crucial. It makes such a difference. And believe me or not. I went to some locations a second time with a torch or a storm lantern just because of even the daylight is sometimes not bright enough. But i would just not go so far to say that torch or flare is not good enough. But absolutely to bring ANY additional light source is really helpfull. Btw i never use flares to be a light source to loot indoor locations. I need them for warmth and light at blizzard/like weather and if its getting to dark outside and as antiwolf outdoors. But again, i am sitting on over 100 flares. I am such a overthrifty type of player. Like waiting for the sun to not use one of my thousands of matches. Its disgusting. But the way to go if you dont know how long term is. 

[UpUpAway95]

Broken Railroad - Stalker vs. Interloper Loot Settings in Custom Menu Results

Save 5 - Baseline Resources = Medium; Item Decay Rate = High; Loose Item Availability = Medium; Empty Container Chance Modifier = Medium; Rifle Availability = Yes; Revolver Availability = Yes; Reduce Container Item Density = Low

Totals of Loot Found in Containers = 8 clothing items; 1 cloth; 2 fire supplies (1 accelerant & 1 cedar); 3 First Aid (2 bandages and 1 Go); 16 Food/Drink; 1 Skill Book; 17 tools (of note were 2 mag lenses and 1 arrow)

Items Found by Breaking Crates in Maintenance Shed: 1 pair Gaunlets, 1 Stim, 2 Accelerant, 2 Pork and Beans

Totals of Loose Items Found = 5 clothing items; 5 cloth; 5 scrap metal; 1 stump removers, 8 books; 8 cedar; 6 coal; 5 fir; 1 firelog; 1 papers; 5 reclaimed wood; 1 bandage; 1 pain killers; 12 food/drink; 2 Skill Books; 24 tool items (of note - both a rifle and a revolver)

 

Save 6 - Baseline Resources = Low; Item Decay Rate = Very High; Loose Item Availability = Low; Empty Container Chance Modifier = High;  Rifle Availability = No; Revolver Availability = No; Reduce Container Item Density = High

Totals of Loot Found in Containers = 3 charcoal; 2 clothing items; 1 cloth; 1 cedar; 1 tinder plug; 4 food/drink; 1 skill book; 3 tools

Items Found by Breaking Crates in Maintenance shed: 1 sewing kit; 1 accelerant; 2 pork and beans

Totals of Loose Items Found: 1 clothing item; 2 cloth; 1 scrap metal; 1 stump remover; 8 books; 2 boxes of wood matches; 8 cedar; 6 coal; 5 fir; 6 reclaimed wood; 10 papers; 2 stims; 1 pain killer; 6 food/drink; 3 skill books (of note - Small Arms Handbook); 12 tools (of note - Heavy Hammer

Note:  Containers here include frozen corpses in addition to lockers, drawers, plastic containers, etc.

Note:  Loose items include any deliberately placed items in addition to items found in the snow around corpses or campfires.

[UpUpAway95]

For this last post, I'm just going to deal with the total loot in containers and loose

Save 7 was done using the basic Stalker settings as before, but moving the Empty Container Chance Modifier from Medium (the stalker setting) to None (as was done by the OP).

Total Items Found in Containers = 76 and Total Loose Items Found = 117

The totals from Save 5 (as stated above) were 48 items in containers and 79 loose items (Note There is a typo in my previous post, since the number of papers should be 10).  The increase in the loot in containers is around 37% and the increase in loose items is about 33%.  I expected a significant increase in the amount of loot in containers, but I felt the amount of loose loot should have stayed about the same as before.  Right now, I'm wondering if I missed a significant amount of loose loot when doing Save #5... so I'm going back into that Save to check.

ETA:  As best I can tell, I only missed 4 loose items in Save 5 - 3 papers and 1 clothing item; bringing the new loose item total to 83 and the difference still around 29%.  Loot drops are so variable that these differences could just be the result of good/bad dice rolls (RNG) in each file.

At any rate, I'm going to take another break from TLD - hoping they fix the despawning corpses issue.  I know from past experience in Broken Railroad, that a corpse should spawn with the knife in Stalker; but he failed to spawn on all four Baseline Resources = Medium files.  There is also sometimes a deer that spawns with a broken arrow and I saw no sign of him in any of the files either.  I'm also wondering why the Heavy Hammer spawned inside the zone on the one Baseline Resources = Low (Interloper loot level) file... something I have never seen happen before this last update.  I would rarely get it to spawn with Baseline Resources = High

Edited January 29, 2022 by UpUpAway95