Snow as an Item

[Derek0311]

I’ve been thinking about how snow and water is used and presented in TLD.  It has been said before but I’ll say it again; where do all the water bottles come from?  Also, why does 2 liters of snow produce 2 liters of water? Since snow is typically 5-25% water shouldn’t I get about .3 liters of water when melting snow in a pot?

So, the suggestion is this: add liquid carrying containers to the game and make water and tea more like fuel for the lantern. This is nothing new but hang on, there is more.  Add a canteen, a thermos, and a tea kettle.  The tea kettle benefit would be to bring non-potable water to a boil in half the time.

Since you can’t store water in a dresser drawer remove that ability.  A canteen can go in the drawer with water in it, but not just water.  However, allow snow and water to be kept in containers like plastic bins and trash cans.  If the container is inside and it’s over 0C then I should be able to look inside and see snow changing to non-potable water.  No stove required.  It’s going to take time obviously but thinking ahead now will pay off.

Canteens could also freeze while full damaging them.  A half full canteen that freezes will not get damaged but you can’t drink ice...

So while this makes water making easier in some ways, it could add difficulty in others.  Overall, I think it adds to immersion.

[UpUpAway95]

1) If you reduce the amount of boiled water you get from snow, you'd have to boil 4 tin cans worth of snow to get what you currently get by boiling one tin.  At the start of the game, it takes 40 mins to make 1 tin can's worth of potable water.  So if they go your route, it would take more than 2 hours to get 0.5 L of water, which is a lot of fire time when you're climbing Timberwolf in Interloper... and you can't even sleep through it because you'd have to get up every 40 minutes to pull the boiled water off the fire and start a new tin.  Thermos' and tea kettles add to one's carry weight... making it more exhausting to climb the ropes (if not impossible to do so due to being overencumbered).  IMO, your suggestion will not enhance or improve gameplay.  It will just bog it down unnecessarily and limit exploration.

[Derek0311]

@UpUpAway95  Not what I had in mind, but thanks for bringing it up since it will allow me to clarify.  The time to boil water wouldn’t have to change.  Since, you have less water it would boil much faster.  The player could either add more snow or boil what they have.

[UpUpAway95]

1 hour ago, Derek0311 said:

@UpUpAway95  Not what I had in mind, but thanks for bringing it up since it will allow me to clarify.  The time to boil water wouldn’t have to change.  Since, you have less water it would boil much faster.  The player could either add more snow or boil what they have.

It still bogs it down, in that then to get the same amount of water, the player would have to repeatedly add bits of snow to the can... meaning that in addition to not being able to sleep for an hour, one couldn't craft rosehips into a tea (15 minutes), etc. without delaying the process because they weren't right johnny on the spot to add more snow into the can.  Even from that perspective, I don't see it as enhancing gameplay.  In addition, a tea kettle would be redundant... we have cooking pots (that weight 1 kg) and do boil water faster than the tin can... and have the advantage that at least they can also be used to reduce the cooking time of meat.

Where do the bottles come from?  Well, you only see them when you drop individual liters and half liters of water.  In your inventory, you're carting around a 4 L "magic" milk jug that can even hold more than 4L of water, apparently.  Easiest solution is to just not drop liters of water everywhere and only keep a maximum of 4L in your inventory.  The milk jug is obviously refilled from whatever bottled water you happen to find as loot and whatever amounts of water you boil.  It also weighs less than a bunch of 1L thermoses and the water is kept as water by your body heat... completely immersive.

ETA:  Teas and coffees can also be managed currently in a completely immersive way.  Carry them around in their dry prepared forms and only make them up 1 at a time when you wish to actually drink one... you need never see a bunch of teacups... only when you find a forgotten cup of tea or coffee placed by Hinterland as a prop inside a microwave or on a desk.  Realistically, you're not going to carry around 5 thermoses (1 for each type of tea and coffee in the game either, because that would take up too much weight above and beyond the weight of the liquid itself.. so you'd be restricting yourself of having only one type of tea or coffee on you and only in the maximum amount that your thermos would hold.  The weight of a 1L thermos of the model shown in the game already is 0.85 kg.  The smaller Thermos 16-oz bottles weigh 0.13 kg empty.

Edited December 22, 2020 by UpUpAway95

[LoneWolf5841]

I always had a deep wish to see snow added as an item. I always felt it was odd that I can melt some snow while in an area with no snow near, i.e inside a cave or building. 

19 hours ago, Derek0311 said:

I’ve been thinking about how snow and water is used and presented in TLD.  It has been said before but I’ll say it again; where do all the water bottles come from?  Also, why does 2 liters of snow produce 2 liters of water? Since snow is typically 5-25% water shouldn’t I get about .3 liters of water when melting snow in a pot?.

You don't know? it's well known that when boiling water you get a waste product called a bottle.  😂 seriously though I think this is more for balance. if you can't find a bottle then it could be the end of your run simply due to RNG.  As much as it doesn't make sense, I am against forcing players to find bottles just to carry water. As for the 2 litter of snow part, I don't really think it is 2 litters of snow for say, instead it's your survivor actively collecting enough snow for 2 litters of water, it just doesn't show that collection of snow.

19 hours ago, Derek0311 said:

So, the suggestion is this: add liquid carrying containers to the game and make water and tea more like fuel for the lantern. This is nothing new but hang on, there is more.  Add a canteen, a thermos, and a tea kettle.  The tea kettle benefit would be to bring non-potable water to a boil in half the time.

Like I said before I am against forcing the player to find a container just to carry water as this could end a run due to RNG, though I'm not against the addition of a thermos. Instead of the thermos being needed for carrying water it's use would be to keep things warm for longer. The tea kettle, I'm not against it if I don't have anything to do while water is boiling then having it boil quickly is great but I wouldn't use it much. I normally read or do repairs while making water and I rarely don't have something to do. 

19 hours ago, Derek0311 said:

Since you can’t store water in a dresser drawer remove that ability.  A canteen can go in the drawer with water in it, but not just water.  However, allow snow and water to be kept in containers like plastic bins and trash cans.  If the container is inside and it’s over 0C then I should be able to look inside and see snow changing to non-potable water.  No stove required.  It’s going to take time obviously but thinking ahead now will pay off.

Canteens could also freeze while full damaging them.  A half full canteen that freezes will not get damaged but you can’t drink ice...

So while this makes water making easier in some ways, it could add difficulty in others.  Overall, I think it adds to immersion.

Since I agree that snow should be it's own item but disagree about forcing players to need a container to carry water I semi disagree with this instead when you go outside to collect snow you would choose how much water you want I.E if you want 2L it will give you enough snow for 2L of water. It will be in a magic container just like water bottles. (again if you're forced to need a container then it's up to RNG if you're run lasts or not)

 I definitely like the idea of it melting on it's own if the snow is stored within a building that is above freezing. This would ultimately make water purification tablets much more useful. As it is now water purification tablets serve only to save some time. in order to get nonpotable water you need a fire anyway and most would just boil the water after melting snow. As for water freezing again this is more of balance it would ultimately make sense but would probably just be an annoyance.  All in all I agree with some points here but not all of them.

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by LoneWolf5841
Punctuation