TWM summit in loper need a bit buff...

[sonics01]

I was writing this in wish list forum, but I think this topic fits more with survival forum. 

How do you all think about items from the tail section in the summit of TWM? Frankly, I think they are not that worth the effort in loper. It seems it is not only me who feels like this... 

In loper, I only climb up the TWM peak when my starting position is near the deer clearing. From there, I can reach the peak after climbing two ropes via secluded shelf and cave, and attempt "hit and run" from the peak. 

Otherwise, I think the reward from TWM peak in loper is not worth to risk and time. Because it is much better, safer, and faster to go down to PV and look for important tools, jackets, and pants. If you couldn't find a hammer and a bedroll in PV, no worries, Winding river and ML will prepare something for you. Or you could just directly turn to CH, which is also good place to loot hammer and hacksaw. The only useful 'fixed' item in the tail section in loper is an ear wrap, wool socks, and a wool toque. Right? Even thermal underwear is not guaranteed there. But you can find all of these in other places. One of the reason why I prefer HRV startring is, it surely gives me "high risk - high return". But in TWM, I'm not sure about that. 

So, I'm suggesting: how about introducing more items and increase the spawn chance for several important items for the TWM summit in loper difficulty? Not to the super ultra excellent level, but just a slight buff. Something like "scratch loper player's itchy spot" level. So that the summit of TWM become "considerable place", not only for mid-early loper players, but also even for late-game loper players. 

I don't think such a "slight buff" should allow 'non-loper items' like Longjohns or Expedition parka. I never mean that. But, maybe...

- Fixed thermal underwear

- Fixed cured guts (3~4)

- Some fixed expandable items, like wheat stone and sewing kit and bunch of cloths. Not too many, maybe 3~4 for each.  

- 80% chance of hammer

- 75% chance of an arrowhead

- 50% chance of combat pants.

- 25% chance of Mackinaw.  

- 10% chance of a bear hide.

- 5% chance of a moose hide.

- Include 1~2 deer hide in leather container. 

How about, not all, but 3~4 contents from these suggestions? Please don't care about these numbers, I'm just telling what I'm thinking without any reasonable supports. 

With these, not only for early game loper players, but also mid~late game loper players might consider to visit TWM summit at least for once. 

[gotmilkanot]

Honestly, adding arrowheads and cured bear/moose hides will make Loper way too easy in early game considering it's not even hard to make it to the summit - well, by the time you play Loper you'll probably know the older regions like the back of your hand anyway.

And if I remember correctly, I did get one of each for cured rabbit, wolf and deer hides, no cured guts though but not a big deal since they're easy to get.

To me, it's still worth to get to the summit for the distress pistol, ear wrap, firestriker and matches. Maybe just add a small chance of Mackinaw spawn at most? Since it's more or less the "Expedition Parka" for Lopers anyway.

[odizzido]

I don't feel any need to get to the top either. Maybe something smaller like guaranteed mountaineering socks would be good? If it's just more of the same then as you've said there isn't much reason to go up there, especially since it's not zero risk.

[sonics01]

18 hours ago, gotmilkanot said:

Honestly, adding arrowheads and cured bear/moose hides will make Loper way too easy in early game considering it's not even hard to make it to the summit - well, by the time you play Loper you'll probably know the older regions like the back of your hand anyway.

And if I remember correctly, I did get one of each for cured rabbit, wolf and deer hides, no cured guts though but not a big deal since they're easy to get.

OK, maybe then bear or moose carcass? I heard that, in old version, very lucky players saw moose carcass in HRV mysterious signal in loper. But as far as I know that moose carcass in HRV signal in loper is no more in the current version, maybe Hinterland also thinks moose carcass might be OP... But the key is, during the early phase, you can get deer hide from world-spawned deer carcass, or you can lure wolf to hunt deer and kick him out. And you can get rabbit hide with little effort. That is why I thought bear or moose carcass. Or, wolf carcass...

Also, one single fixed arrowhead or 50%+ chance of one single arrowhead would not OP I guess. 

Regarding guts, if the container provides cured guts, that is 5 days of time saving in the early game. That is great plus to early loper game, but maybe this might be too good... then maybe OK to 50~60% cured (but good condition) guts might be OK? But it wouldn't make sense, why any aircraft container carries uncured guts? And uncured guts before bow and arrow is an wolf magnet. 

Then maybe some number of fixed whetstone or sewing kits with cured leather and cloths? That will definitely bring some attention from mid stage loper players. Also, 50%+ chance of combat pants and Mackinaws would be great to risk time and effort during early phase.  

3 hours ago, odizzido said:

I don't feel any need to get to the top either. Maybe something smaller like guaranteed mountaineering socks would be good? If it's just more of the same then as you've said there isn't much reason to go up there, especially since it's not zero risk.

Yeah, in early game, (pre 50 days, before the temperature drop finished) it feels like an White elephant to me. Items up above is of course good, but you can rush to other areas and try these too... Ear wrap fix is a really good, I admit that. But other then that, incentive compared to risk there is bit low, if we think about time cost, match/fire plan (especially if you don't have lens)... Too few "fixed" items. (I just checked summit with my loper character, and wool toque seems not fixed. I couldn't find it. )   

And in late game (200+ days) it is just too cold to try there IMO. 

 

[gotmilkanot]

I don't know, I feel like one of the most challenging parts about Loper which makes it fun is your race against the worsening weather in the first 50 days. That's why I plan to loot the colder regions like PV and TWM as early as I can when the weather is still forgiving so that I can be "done" with them and move on to warmer regions. Of course, put some effort to stone rabbits and harvest a couple of ravaged deer carcasses (there are plenty of easy carcasses in the Ravine/Winding River) so that you can have stuff curing while looting/forging. If you do this from the first few days, you'll be set with full rabbit/deer clothing by the first 10 days.

I also feel Loper is challenging/fun because you have get everything by yourself if you want to craft something. That includes hunting big game for their hides and get them curing ASAP before the weather turns nastier. Adding cured bear/moose hides at the summit will make Loper no different from spoon feeding you with pre-made moose hide satchel in HRV and bearskin bedroll in BI in lower difficulties. It'll honestly just take away the fun of playing Loper and I'm pretty sure many long term Loper players wouldn't want that.

Edited July 24, 2020 by gotmilkanot

[Random Guy]

Well, there's a lot of stuff in the containers, but long term it mostly boils down to:

-An ear wrap

-About 50 matches charges

-8 flare gun shells

-(edit: Forgot the coffeeeeeeee.  Critical miss)

Better loot than all of broken railroad in any case xD  Honestly the shells are pretty nice and you won't necessarily find an ear wrap anywhere else.

Would definitely love a moose hide, though.  Was pretty annoyed when I traveled to peak cave in HRV one time and the moose carcass wasn't there: only seems to be a chance.

Re: OP's thoughts on randomized loot.  I think it would be cool.  Although I wonder if the loot should really be that great in the first place, given you can get there almost immediately if you spawn in TWM and find a hacksaw in the mountaineer's hut so you can make coffee.  If there were more loot I think hacksaws should be removed from TWM, although this would take away the fun of TWM-only games.

Edit:  Actually, given that currently the "best start" is probably climbing the summit on day 2, it probably doesn't need more stuff really.  While the long term stuff is questionable, the short term stuff is super nice.  And long term, you'll probably go there anyways because why the heck not right?

Edited July 29, 2020 by Random Guy

[sonics01]

On 7/24/2020 at 2:21 AM, gotmilkanot said:

I also feel Loper is challenging/fun because you have get everything by yourself if you want to craft something. That includes hunting big game for their hides and get them curing ASAP before the weather turns nastier. Adding cured bear/moose hides at the summit will make Loper no different from spoon feeding you with pre-made moose hide satchel in HRV and bearskin bedroll in BI in lower difficulties. It'll honestly just take away the fun of playing Loper and I'm pretty sure many long term Loper players wouldn't want that.

First of all, I don't think it is spoon-feeding. You still need to invest time and effort to climb up there. You need a time cost to harvest and time to cure. But OK let's say they are OP. At least I agree that too early bear hide and moose hide would be slightly OP. If bear and moose are OP then how about a wolf carcass near the tail section? A wolf carcass wouldn't be OP.

And I don't think my suggestion breaks the fun of you and other's loper playing fun. I'm just suggesting an idea that the items in TWM summit is not worth the effort so it needs slight buff. I don't think slight buff wouldn't hurt yours and anyone's fun. I don't think this suggestion is such "big" enough to touch the "fun" of some players. If devs don't like it then they wouldn't do that. But it is not only me who thinks the TWM summit is not worth the effort, there are some others too. 

4 hours ago, Random Guy said:

Edit:  Actually, given that currently the "best start" is probably climbing the summit on day 2, it probably doesn't need more stuff really.  While the long term stuff is questionable, the short term stuff is super nice.  And long term, you'll probably go there anyways because why the heck not right?

Hmm I don't know about that. Before day 50, I only go to TWM if I couldn't find thermal underwear or toque. But usually I finish them all before I go to TWM, and tail section has no fixed thermal underwear or toque anyway. So for me, I don't have any incentive to visit TWM. Same with PV start. I quickly search around the important places in PV within 1~2 day and head to ML or CH as fast as possible to get hammer. Even if I start from TWM, it is usually the same: I only go to tail section only if I start from deer clearing in TWM. To me, make tools and bow/arrow as early as possible is more important. If the tail section has fixed or high chance of Mackinaw and/or combat pants, and if the tail section offer a lot of whetstone, then things would be different.   

If I prepare really really long term play, then I would visit TWM only for once to get match and some cloths to harvest and to hunt bear and moose. But that would be all.  

And... as far as I know, there are three hacksaw spot in TWM and all of them are not 100%. Some have higher chance but not fixed. 

 

 

[gotmilkanot]

8 hours ago, sonics01 said:

First of all, I don't think it is spoon-feeding. You still need to invest time and effort to climb up there. You need a time cost to harvest and time to cure. But OK let's say they are OP. At least I agree that too early bear hide and moose hide would be slightly OP. If bear and moose are OP then how about a wolf carcass near the tail section? A wolf carcass wouldn't be OP.

And I don't think my suggestion breaks the fun of you and other's loper playing fun. I'm just suggesting an idea that the items in TWM summit is not worth the effort so it needs slight buff. I don't think slight buff wouldn't hurt yours and anyone's fun. I don't think this suggestion is such "big" enough to touch the "fun" of some players. If devs don't like it then they wouldn't do that. But it is not only me who thinks the TWM summit is not worth the effort, there are some others too.

To me, it's still spoon feeding. The "difficulty" in harvesting a pre-spawned moose carcass pales in comparison to having to craft a bow and arrows or get a distress pistol so that you can finally hunt one (that is if you even manage have to find one in the first place).

I don't even bother with the wolf pelts so I couldn't care less if there's a wolf carcass at the summit.

There are hardcore people who already find Interloper too easy so they summit TWM on Day 2 for the distress pistol and kill 2 bears the next day to speed craft the bearskin coat. This just proves that the summit loot doesn't need a buff, it's perfectly fine as it is and definitely worth it to get there for some people.

Edited July 30, 2020 by gotmilkanot

[Serenity]

14 hours ago, sonics01 said:

You still need to invest time and effort to climb up there

It's not a big deal to get the summit. It can be a bit disappointing, but I still do for the same reason many people climb mountains. Because it's there. It's a nice experience in of itself. And ear wraps, matches, fire striker, and flare shells are still good loot.

What I can see that isn't overpowered is a chance for thermal underwear. A second set can be hard to find sometimes.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Serenity

[sonics01]

  

8 hours ago, gotmilkanot said:

To me, it's still spoon feeding. The "difficulty" in harvesting a pre-spawned moose carcass pales in comparison to having to craft a bow and arrows or get a distress pistol so that you can finally hunt one (that is if you even manage have to find one in the first place).

I don't even bother with the wolf pelts so I couldn't care less if there's a wolf carcass at the summit.

There are hardcore people who already find Interloper too easy so they summit TWM on Day 2 for the distress pistol and kill 2 bears the next day to speed craft the bearskin coat. This just proves that the summit loot doesn't need a buff, it's perfectly fine as it is and definitely worth it to get there for some people.

I'm one of the person who thinks interloper is easy, and I still disagree with you. But OK let's say moose and bear carcass in the summit is OP. I think devs deleted moose carcass from HRV in loper for the same reason. That part is understandable. 

But still, tail section items in loper difficulty is not worth the effort and time. Distress pistol and speedy 2 bear coat is not only TWM thing. You can get fixed distress pistol and some rounds from Ravine basin (If I remember correctly, it was 3 rounds from there). Ravine is much easier and faster to approach and easier to optimize the plan and path. Closest bears will be ones in the Coastal Highway. Using a flare gun, bleeding out time of a bear after a single headshot hit is 30 min. I never had critical one-shot kill against the bear using flare gun, but I guess it should be possible. After harvest, I usually cure them in Fishing Camp, and head to DP to use the furnace from Riken. On the way, I check Quonset or Misantrope if there are available bears. If not, go to DP. If yes, kill the bear, harvest, and cure. You don't need to climb up there just for distress pistol and 2 speedy bear coats. 

 

30 minutes ago, Serenity said:

It's not a big deal to get the summit. It can be a bit disappointing, but I still do for the same reason many people climb mountains. Because it's there. It's a nice experience in of itself. And ear wraps, matches, fire striker, and flare shells are still good loot.

What I can see that isn't overpowered is a chance for thermal underwear. A second set can be hard to find sometimes.

Yeah, I admit the view is good. But I think loot is not enough. Yes, they are good, I admitted from posts above ear wrap fix is good. But just not enough in my opinion... 

I like you mentioned the thermal underwear. I wish the summit of TWM become a spot for loper players to "scratch the itchy spot". So that all loper players make a plan to visit there 2~3 times. Some expandable items like a bunch of whetstones and sewing kit, and thermal underwear, not fixed but high chance of combat pants or Mackinaw... That will make the TWM summit worth to visit multiple times throughout the game. 

Edited July 30, 2020 by sonics01

[gotmilkanot]

1 hour ago, sonics01 said:

  

I'm one of the person who thinks interloper is easy, and I still disagree with you. But OK let's say moose and bear carcass in the summit is OP. I think devs deleted moose carcass from HRV in loper for the same reason. That part is understandable. 

But still, tail section items in loper difficulty is not worth the effort and time. Distress pistol and speedy 2 bear coat is not only TWM thing. You can get fixed distress pistol and some rounds from Ravine basin (If I remember correctly, it was 3 rounds from there). Ravine is much easier and faster to approach and easier to optimize the plan and path. Closest bears will be ones in the Coastal Highway. Using a flare gun, bleeding out time of a bear after a single headshot hit is 30 min. I never had critical one-shot kill against the bear using flare gun, but I guess it should be possible. After harvest, I usually cure them in Fishing Camp, and head to DP to use the furnace from Riken. On the way, I check Quonset or Misantrope if there are available bears. If not, go to DP. If yes, kill the bear, harvest, and cure. You don't need to climb up there just for distress pistol and 2 speedy bear coats.

No where in my post says getting to the summit for the distress pistol is the only way to get 2 speedy bear coats, it's all about the starting spawns. If I happen to spawn in TWM and manage to find a hacksaw quickly, obviously I would go for the distress pistol at the summit instead of the one in Ravine, that's just common sense.

Not sure why you keep emphasising on the effort and time needed to summit when it's not even a big deal. Even if you take your time and walk from point to point, it only takes 1.5 days max from Mountaineer's Hut to the Summit. 1.5 days of travel for a guaranteed distress pistol w/ 8 shells, firestriker, ear wrap and matches sounds like a pretty damn good deal for me. Besides, wouldn't you be able to summit even faster since you claim Inteloper is too easy for you?

Also sewing kits and whetstones are everywhere lol, how is a few extra of them at the Summit going to make a difference to you anyway?

Edited July 30, 2020 by gotmilkanot

[sonics01]

6 minutes ago, gotmilkanot said:

No where in my post says getting to the summit for the distress pistol is the only way to get 2 speedy bear coats, it's all about the starting spawns. If I happen to spawn in TWM and manage to find a hacksaw quickly, obviously I would go for the distress pistol at the summit instead of the one in Ravine, that's just common sense.

>> Because you used this example as a proof of "summit loot doesn't need a buff" which I don't agree. 

Quote

 

Not sure why you keep emphasising on the effort and time needed to summit when it's not even a big deal. Even if you take your time and walk from point to point, it only takes 1.5 days max from Mountaineer's Hut to the Summit. 1.5 days of travel for a guaranteed distress pistol w/ 8 shells, firestriker, ear wrap and matches sounds like a pretty damn good deal for me.

 

 

Simple, it is fight against the time and search for ultimate efficiency. I always make my early stage of loper run like a speedrun. It takes two days to go summit, loot and rest, and come back to hut (using mountain goating). With that time cost, I can finish the farming in PV (3~4 important points only) and might be somewhere in the ML or CH, or on the way to ML or CH at least. Then I can one more step faster to reach furnace. 

Quote

Also sewing kits and whetstones are everywhere lol, how is a few extra of them at the Summit going to make a difference to you anyway?

I'm not saying only for sewing kits and whetstones. I wish to have a combination of fixed or high chance items in TWM summit, including sewing kits and whetstones. Why do you neglect thermal underwear and combat pants and Mackinaw? You are just being picky just to tackle me. Stop doing that. 

And, more sewing kits and whetstones will be always welcome for me. They are always in category of "the more the better" for me. I don't know how do you play but who wouldn't welcome these expendables? These plus some items will definitely make more loper player to consider visit the peak more than once. 

[gotmilkanot]

If you actually read my first reply, I did say it won't be a bad idea to add a chance of Mackinaw if that makes you happier. I don't have a issue with the current loot but honestly don't find adding chances of rare clothing spawns on the summit too overpowered.

The reason I seem to be nitpicky to you is that you claim Interloper is easy for you yet suggest things like ready made arrowhead, moose and bear hides which is just going to make Interloper even easier for you. Some stuff you say just don't click and at this point, I'm even starting to doubt your claim about Interloper being easy for you.

[sonics01]

16 minutes ago, gotmilkanot said:

If you actually read my first reply, I did say it won't be a bad idea to add a chance of Mackinaw if that makes you happier. I don't have a issue with the current loot but honestly don't find adding chances of rare clothing spawns on the summit too overpowered.

The reason I seem to be nitpicky to you is that you claim Interloper is easy for you yet suggest things like ready made arrowhead, moose and bear hides which is just going to make Interloper even easier for you. Some stuff you say just don't click and at this point, I'm even starting to doubt your claim about Interloper being easy for you.

Well, you didn't say about Mackinaw and others in later part of your post, very easy to misinterpret you are just here to tackle. 

Regarding some OP item comments, they are just brainstorming effort of mine about what kind of combination would be good as an incentive of tail section, to lead more players (even players like me who thinks the current TWM is not worth) to visit TWM and the peak. Because currently, apparently it is not only me who thinks the same way: loot in TWM is good but not enough. I still think items in loper tail section is White Elephant.

I still think, if moose carcass and bear carcass is placed somewhere near the peak but not in the peak, then wouldn't it be OP? If that feels too good incentive than OK. I'm not here to change your mind but you can't change mine too. One single arrowhead is not OP, that I can assure you. HRV sometimes offer that with very good chance, and even Milton Orca sometimes offer that with low chance. Why not in peak of TWM?

You can doubt whatever you want, as long as you want. I don't care. 

[Random Guy]

I just don't think loot balance of specific areas is that important really.  You're going to fit into one of two camps playing a traditional game of interloper:

1)  Get only the essential mid-term stuff and grind your way to boredom for a few hundred days (probably skip BR,TWM,HRV,BI, and DP entirely) or

2) Loot absolutely everything in the entire game with long term value (matches/saplings/unique clothing/cloth/metal)

Basically, if it has a single box of matches, it's worth visiting in #2, and in #1 TWM just fits in with half the world.

So the loot only really matters as a first time experience imo.  Personally, I found it very impressive.  My first time I got to the summit on interloper, I did it without a map or previous experience, and got to the summit with absolutely no resources whatsoever (literally started with 14 coal and 40 cat tails, got hopelessly lost, managed to make it with a stick and 5 stalks) , thinking "Well, at least I climbed this darned thing, now I can die in peace".  Got there and basically had a glorious feast for days, the food and windhshielded wood boxes alone being the prize in this case. And (in TWM tradition) said screw the climb down home and sprained every bone in my body hopping down xD

Edited July 30, 2020 by Random Guy

[gotmilkanot]

10 minutes ago, sonics01 said:

Well, you didn't say about Mackinaw and others in later part of your post, very easy to misinterpret you are just here to tackle. 

Regarding some OP item comments, they are just brainstorming effort of mine about what kind of combination would be good as an incentive of tail section, to lead more players (even players like me who thinks the current TWM is not worth) to visit TWM and the peak. Because currently, apparently it is not only me who thinks the same way: loot in TWM is good but not enough. I still think items in loper tail section is White Elephant.

I still think, if moose carcass and bear carcass is placed somewhere near the peak but not in the peak, then wouldn't it be OP? If that feels too good incentive than OK. I'm not here to change your mind but you can't change mine too. One single arrowhead is not OP, that I can assure you. HRV sometimes offer that with very good chance, and even Milton Orca sometimes offer that with low chance. Why not in peak of TWM?

You can doubt whatever you want, as long as you want. I don't care. 

Like I said, my main concern was about adding arrowheads, bear and moose hides at the summit. You can add all the other rare clothing spawns for all I care. In the end, I only need one Mackinaw, one Combat Pants, two Thermals etc. and any extras I find are going to be scrapped into cloth anyway.

If you're the kind of player who likes to min max everything and speed run the first 50 days and start a new save all over again, then sure maybe summit loot is not good enough for you.

But I don't. I only intend to play one Interloper run and aim to explore the whole world without looking up loot tables and survive as long as I can. I may have left TWM after looting the cargo containers, but I'm definitely coming back again to map/get all saplings etc. So the current summit loot for me is more than enough.

To each his own, I guess.

[sonics01]

die

22 hours ago, Random Guy said:

I just don't think loot balance of specific areas is that important really.  You're going to fit into one of two camps playing a traditional game of interloper:

1)  Get only the essential mid-term stuff and grind your way to boredom for a few hundred days (probably skip BR,TWM,HRV,BI, and DP entirely) or

2) Loot absolutely everything in the entire game with long term value (matches/saplings/unique clothing/cloth/metal)

 

22 hours ago, gotmilkanot said:

If you're the kind of player who likes to min max everything and speed run the first 50 days and start a new save all over again, then sure maybe summit loot is not good enough for you.

Good point. IMO I'm more close to #1. I'm not giving up just after 50 days, though. The only one loper character in my account survived longer than day 200, and 2 are around 100 days. Total is about 410 days. I admit, I feel very bored after 200 days and started new runs. A lot of loper characters are dead or forgotten during early game trials and tests, most of test runs are died or forgotten less than day 10. But I learned a lot about the efficient opening and route, especially around HRV and Milton. 

At the same time, I also have an idea of pursuing 500 days achievement and cartographer achievement using 200 days character, because he is kinda close to #2. That character still needs to finish the "complete farming" in HRV, TWM, and BR. But That guy is the most closest one to #2. 

I was just thinking that TWM summit can be too easily neglected, or becoming a place where players visit only once during interloper. I suggested several ideas which could turn TWM as 

1) Good at opening. 

2) Revisit again at mid-late stage. 

Now I'm thinking, it would be better to distribute some items all-around the map, not only for summit. 

So I was thinking that maybe some "good loots" in the TWM summit or near TWM summit will make this possible, which fits well for both #1 and #2 type players. But OK, some suggestions looks like OP. I also understand, there is a reason why devs removed Moose carcass from HRV loper. But I still think some combinations of items, such as fixed thermal underwear and 50% chance one single arrowhead might be good to bring some more intention to TWM. Not too much, just very subtle + slight level, which would be just enough to "scratch the itchy points". 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by sonics01

[gotmilkanot]

19 minutes ago, sonics01 said:

die

 

Good point. IMO I'm more close to #1. I'm not giving up just after 50 days, though. The only one loper character in my account survived longer than day 200, and 2 are around 100 days. Total is about 410 days. I admit, I feel very bored after 200 days and started new runs. A lot of loper characters are dead or forgotten during early game trials and tests, most of test runs are died or forgotten less than day 10. But I learned a lot about the efficient opening and route, especially around HRV and Milton. 

At the same time, I also have an idea of pursuing 500 days achievement and cartographer achievement using 200 days character, because he is kinda close to #2. That character still needs to finish the "complete farming" in HRV, TWM, and BR. But That guy is the most closest one to #2. 

I was just thinking that TWM summit can be too easily neglected, or becoming a place where players visit only once during interloper. I suggested several ideas which could turn TWM as 

1) Good at opening. 

2) Revisit again at mid-late stage. 

Now I'm thinking, it would be better to distribute some items all-around the map, not only for summit. 

So I was thinking that maybe some "good loots" in the TWM summit or near TWM summit will make this possible, which fits well for both #1 and #2 type players. But OK, some suggestions looks like OP. I also understand, there is a reason why devs removed Moose carcass from HRV loper. But I still think some combinations of items, such as fixed thermal underwear and 50% chance one single arrowhead might be good to bring some more intention to TWM. Not too much, just very subtle + slight level, which would be just enough to "scratch the itchy points". 

 

 

Good point about the thermal underwear, I'm happy with either fixed or possible spawn at the summit. Plus, they do decay pretty fast so that'll motivate players to summit early in the run. I was hoping to get my second pair at the summit honestly but I had no idea whether it can actually spawn there since I wasn't looking at loot tables. Didn't find them at the summit but I wasn't too disheartened either since I'll be able to find it somewhere as long as I sweep through regions fast. Managed to find the second pair in Milton on Day 62 in the end, although they were already at 8%.

BR can be pretty disappointing with the loot, even more so if you already find summit loot disappointing since the place is a bottleneck region infested with wolves.

Just looted HRV today, found goodies like ear wrap, combat pants, mackinaw and one revolver round (most probably bugged?) but again, I already have all the clothing I wanted so just dropped them at the Stairsteps Lake cave. Still a good place to sweep for saplings IMO, harvested about 10 birch and 8 maple but I'm pretty sure I missed a few since the weather is pretty bad.