Rifle balance suggestion

[sonics01]

1) Introduce "limited maximum quality" for rifle (and revolver too?). 

One of the famous history about Lee-Enfield is "Mad minute".  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_minute It was one of the bold action rifle rapid fire exercise program. Soldiers were required to hit 15 targets from 300 yard (~270m) distance within a minute using LE. LE's bolt system make it possible to bring faster rate of fire when compared to Mauser type bolt system. I can't explain all details in here, but the major difference between Mauser bolt system and LE bolt system are lug position and arrangement. There are pros and cons of each type of the bolting. LE type has a merit of faster rate of fire and ability to keep aiming during shooting. But, if not properly maintained, continuous shock wave from shooting of multiple rounds over time can accumulate damage to bolt, lug, and related system of the rifle which brings wear/friction related damages such as "not-that-tight" bolt or "shaking bullet" inside the chamber. Head-space issue is also one of the LE bolt's well known issue. If you're interested, search for rear-locking lugs and front-locking lugs, or Mauser bolt vs Lee-Enfield bolt. 

In short, there's some chance that LE type bolt action rifles could have an issue in quality and reliability, if not properly maintained. Not to mention that British-made LE rifles are very old. 

So, let's introduce this factor. Let's assume, some rifle's condition is too old and too poorly maintained, that usual cleaning cannot solve the issue of reliability. Introduce some RNGs, let the rifles has various fixed possible maximum condition %, which are not necessarily 100%. Some rifle are limited to have 30% maximum condition, some rifles have 50, some have 60, some have 75, or any random numbers, but with some good Maxwell distribution curve around 75%~85% among all rifle population. No matter how many times players cleaned the rifle, the rifle cannot be maintained more than given maximum condition %. For higher difficulty, let the decay option lowers the top averaged maximum conditions in distribution curve, let's say to 50~70% condition rifle to be the most abundant lootable rifles. Chance of finding 100% rifle is there, but it would be really rare, and that will be so lucky event. 

Then, let's introduce special repair option for milling machine. Let the milling machine can increase the maximum condition, but only for once for one rifle. The repair amount of possible maximum condition should be decided based on gun-smith skill and gun cleaning skill level. When all conditions are good, player can fix the rifle up to 50% of maximum condition, but only for once per one rifle. However, if player gun smith and gun cleaning skill level is too low, then introduce a chance of repair fail, which would further decrease the maximum condition, or could even ruin the rifle.  

Then, any other repair action would be the same with the cleaning just like current milling machine does. 

 

2) Increase the accuracy range, but depends on player skill/condition + gun condition. 

Currently, even with rifle skill 5, there is a limit of accuracy against very far target. I tested myself from the coast line in front of Quonset Gas Station, targeting wolves and bears very far, more than 150 steps. Bear was spawned in front of Misanthrope's island, and wolves were wandering around the fishing hut between Quonset and Misanthrope island. I shot 10+ bullets against the bear behind the fishing hut, but it hardly hits. It was warm, and not tired at all condition. I tested 3 times, and for those 3 cases, it took 10+ bullets to hit the bear for once. It is even harder to hit wolves because they are too small. 

According to TLD wiki, base range of rifle level 1 is 50 pace = 50 steps = 38m. Level 5 get 40% accuracy range bonus, which will bring 70 paces = 53m. In fact, I feels like the rifle can hit further reliably, like 90~110 paces (I counted footstep sound to the hit target) which is approximately 70~80m, only if I shoot from perfect condition (full warmth circle + full fatigue circle). But, it feels like anything further 120 pace seems not possible to reliably hit. I need to do more test, but it seems that there is a clear limit of distance which brings reliable accuracy. 

For level 5 rifle skill, I think this maximum range should be increased. With full condition player of rifle skill level 5 and full condition rifle, hit chance should be reliable level against 150m+ distance target, possible maximum 200m. But, the condition of rifle should influence on the accuracy. I think the equation should consider 30~40% rifle skill level and player condition/fatigue/warmth level, and 60% rifle condition to decide the accuracy. In this sense, suggestion #1 will prevent the "sniping meta" from TLD, and will keep the balance to this game. 

 

3) Proper bullet trajectory/drop curve

With increased effective accuracy (suggestion #2), it would be great to see the proper trajectory curve physics. I think this has been suggested multiple times, so I won't repeat the detail. But what I wish to say is, proper bullet trajectory can increase the difficulty of hitting target, which could prevent the too-easy rifle and balance the game. 

 

4) High ROF of LE rifle 

As I mentioned above, LE rifle is possible to bring faster RoF with faster reload speed when compared to Mauser type bolt action rifles (which is related to the famous "mad minnute" firing) and is able to keep aiming while reloading. However, both features are not introduced in this game. Maybe for the sake of balance? 

I think it would be more proper and realistic to depict high RoF (fast reload speed) and keep-aiming while reloading. This will make rifle much better option to engage against wolves and Timberwovles. 

But, for the balance, let's bring a penalty to accuracy if player attempt to shoot the next round with very small time gap between shots. Let's introduce maximum required time to "properly aim" (which can be decreased by rifle skill level, like 5 sec at level 1 and 1 sec at level 5) and if player shoot the next round within the required time to "properly aim", then give a slight penalty to accuracy to the shot. This penalty can be accumulated if player shoots the rounds very fast. And I believe such accuracy penalty would be more realistic if player attempt something like "mad minute" 

It would be great if TLD provide an rifle shooting range (like Archery target in PV), and let players enjoy and test about rifle and attempts their own "mad minute" 

 

5) Rifle decoration / camouflage and rare rifle skin 

Let us decorate the rifle (and any other item) using wraps and cloths, something like this: 

https://www.quora.com/Did-snipers-in-WW2-really-wrap-their-guns-in-camouflage

https://www.airsoftsociety.com/threads/how-to-camo-your-gun.3213/

No practical bonus, but just for "better looking". Not only for rifle, but also for arrow, bow, pistol, hunting knife, jackets, other cloths, and etc.

Engraving some patterns or letters to item would be perfect too. However, such engraving should require very good skill level, a lot of time and proper tool = large amount of resources. But I'm sure players will pay for them. I think this "engraving" and "decorating" rifle and other items can be a one of the good possible late-game contents for survival mode games. 

Rare skin items would be perfect too. I don't need to mention how many players wants to see the "cool look" of unique/rare items of story mode in survival mode. 

It would be great if TLD introduce camouflage option which can decrease wild life detection range, but I don't think that will be realized. But hunting is very important part of TLD, if such camouflage options are introduced in this game, that would be great.  

 

 

I will add more if I can think later. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by sonics01

[sonics01]

6) Aim stamina improvement 

I think the draining speed of aim stamina is bit too fast. I can understand with novice, but with level 5 rifle character should be able to hold more, based on his knowledge from books and experience. So, I think it would be better to differentiate the aim stamina draining speed from level 1 to level 5. I think bow and revolver should be the same. 

Previously I also suggested about shooting positions, I guess more positions like prone position might be able to help this issue of too fast aim stamina draining. 

 

7) Hold breath option, for very short moment. 

I think current TLD has no option to hold breath when shooting, for rifle, revolver and arrow. But I think this should be included, because holding breath control is like 101 of all shooting. While holding breath, the natural swaying motion of rifle, revolver, and arrow should be removed or significantly reduced. 

For the balance, I think hold breath option should be introduced from level 4, based on assumption that player read this from book and practiced/mastered during low level. 

Plus, for balance, let's limit the hold breath duration for very short. Like, 3 seconds for level 4, and 4 seconds for level 5. It is not realistic but for the sake of game balance and to prevent too easy rifle.  And, if temperature is decreasing too fast or if the temperature is too low, such breath hold action time should be greatly reduced, or cannot be performed. This is also not realistic but let's just assume to prevent too easy rifle. 

Plus, after hold breath duration is over, aim stamina draining speed should be increased, and aim should become unstable.  

 

 

[Lumi]

I think you make good points, I agree. Except (I've said this once or twice) I personally feel the rifle chambering animation is fine/too fast as is. I feel it should be lengthened, and make missing shots more punishing. Realism be damned! 

[sonics01]

9 hours ago, Lumi said:

I personally feel the rifle chambering animation is fine/too fast as is. I feel it should be lengthened, and make missing shots more punishing.

How about differentiate reload animation time based on rifle skill level? Very long (longer than now) at level 1, but getting faster and faster at higher rifle level.

Anything like "mad minute" should be allowed to be performed at level 5, and even then, (I already suggested this) such fast shooting should involve good amount of accuracy penalty to successive shots.

[odizzido]

The aiming stamina thing is kinda strange to me. I am quite sure I've shot a lee enfield before and I don't recall my arms getting tired at all. I would think that I would have noticed if that were something that happens within ten seconds? Maybe I just don't remember but I find it pretty questionable. It's never been an issue for me in the game, but my brain looks at it saying "seriously?"

[sonics01]

On 7/12/2020 at 5:59 PM, odizzido said:

The aiming stamina thing is kinda strange to me. I am quite sure I've shot a lee enfield before and I don't recall my arms getting tired at all. I would think that I would have noticed if that were something that happens within ten seconds? Maybe I just don't remember but I find it pretty questionable. It's never been an issue for me in the game, but my brain looks at it saying "seriously?"

Maybe aim stamina can be interpreted as several factors, like level of concentration. It is true that some practice/training is needed to keep steady aim and steady barrel during shooting. 

https://www.usashooting.org/library/Instructional/Rifle/hold_control_rifle_july_aug_2011.pdf

https://outdoorfield.net/hold-rifle-perfectly-steady/

https://www.myknowledgeguy.com/how-to-hold-a-rifle-steady-standing-up/

TLD didn't introduce all these details to rifle/revolver/archery anyway so I'm assuming they tried to simplify all these details in one parameter of "aim stamina meter". 

However, I still believe that they need to introduce "hold breath meter" instead of "aim stamina meter". Or, keep the current "aim stamina meter" as it is, but differentiate draining speed very differently by skill level, so that anyone can feel the effect of leveling up for rifle, revolver, and archery. And then add "hold breath" option. It is OK to assume that they read all these tricks and techniques and being very good at them at level 5. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by sonics01

[Lumi]

On 7/13/2020 at 2:29 AM, sonics01 said:

How about differentiate reload animation time based on rifle skill level? Very long (longer than now) at level 1, but getting faster and faster at higher rifle level.

Anything like "mad minute" should be allowed to be performed at level 5, and even then, (I already suggested this) such fast shooting should involve good amount of accuracy penalty to successive shots.

I could get behind that, yeah.

[sonics01]

8. Colt C19 rifle 

All Canadian rangers no more carry LE no4 series. As far as I know, replacement/delivery phase is over sometime 2019. But there might be some LE no4 rifles in action somewhere, as a reserve weapon or just because C19 is still not arrived yet (in very remote area). Introducing C19 will be really great for this game for several reasons. When this game was under development, Canadian Rangers used LE and C19 was just a plan or very early stage of procurement. But now, C19 is ready and in action. So, it would be better to bring this bad boy to this game IMO. For more information: 

https://www.coltcanada.com/assets/press-release-ncrr-20150623.pdf

http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/c-19-the-new-canadian-ranger-rifle/

1) Manufactured in Canada 

From above links: 

Quote

Colt Canada will produce the barrel, bolt and receiver under licence from SAKO, and Stoeger Canada will serve as the Canadian supplier. The ownership of the intellectual property of the design will remain with SAKO, and Colt Canada will acquire a manufacturing license for the design on behalf of The Government of Canada and the Department of National Defence, under the Munitions Supply Program (MSP).

This is a true "made in Canada" weapon for Canadian Rangers. I'm not even Canadian, but if I were, I would like see this weapon in this game. This will appeal to Hinterland and Canadian players of this game. 

 

2) Just better in all-aspect than LE no 4. 

https://uphere.ca/articles/tale-two-rifles

According to this article, C19 is superior in many aspects when compared to LE no4. More stopping power from .308 ammo, smoother movement of bolt, better extreme-cold-weather performance and reliability, better corrosion-resistance, shorter length and lighter weight, and easier and cheaper to repair / maintenance. 

 

If C19 is introduced, it should be ultra-rare, so that very luckiest guys should be able to see this weapon. Or, let C19 available for all players, but only if they pass the very difficult and tricky tasks which is possible to fail. This coincides with my other suggestion of puzzle/mystery solving aspect as a late game contents or end game contents. 

 

 

 

9. Increase penalty aspects of rifle shooting at lower level, and give more clear incentive to higher level. 

I got some idea while discussing about rifle in different post. If we assume both Astrid and Mackenzie were never trained for firearm and had zero experience of rifle, then we may able to assume that they have very very poor basic about rifle shooting. Then, it might be OK to give a bit more penalty to many aspects of rifle shooting at early level (before level 2) . Swaying, aim stamina draining speed, reload speed, breathing...  As a player gets more experience, penalties are gradually reduced, and in the end, players become "pro" at rifle shooting. 

For the better description of such "progress", it might be OK to increase rifle skill level cap to lvl 7. This way, players should invest a lot of time and effort to being "very good" at rifle shooting, but reward at max level will worth the effort. Increased level cap will be helpful for "late game contents" because leveling up to 7 will take some time. (I guess it might be OK to increase all skill's level cap to 7 or higher, but that is different story) 

Level 0~2: Beginner. Penalty to all aspects of rifle shooting (aim stamina draining speed, breath control duration, swaying amount, coldness effect to swaying, reload speed) but penalty moderately decreases as level increases. 

Level 3~5: Intermediate. Crouching shot available from level 3. Penalty slightly decreases as level increases. 

Level 6~7: Expert. Rest position or prone position available from level 7. Penalty is almost zero (but not zero). Plus, at level 7, players should be able to fire rifle with very very small swaying and breath effect, if temperature is OK. But if temperature is too cold, then breath control time and aim stamina should be influenced, even from max level.  

 

 

10. Remove damage increase with increasing level, move this to gunsmith skill level (max gunsmith level). 

I'm not sure if it is realistic to say, one's rifle skill can bring better damage. Because, it is the bullet which creates the damage, not one's skill. I can understand critical chance, but damage? Hmm... (Personally, increasing critical chance with respect to increasing rifle skill seems not "realistic" but let's talk that later)  

How about, remove damage bonus by rifle level, and introduce the rifle damage bonus to increased gunsmith skill level? In the market, there are some custom .303 British, which is not using FMJ but using HP or other bullet. 

So, let's assume, increased gunsmith skill level of players make them try the different types of custom bullets such as HP, which brings better damage but slightly different ballistic curve feature and slightly shorter maximum range.