Feedback v. 127

[levism84]

I played through a couple times so far on v. 127, and I was pleasantly surprised by a few things.

1. The wolves. I thought fewer wolves would make things less scary. However, NOT seeing a lot of wolves made hearing the howl of a wolf in the distance (or unsettlingly close) all the more terrifying. This, of course, means I haven't had much experience checking out the other modifications you made to wolves in this patch. I will have to do some "field work" and get back to you.

2. Clothing. While I still found myself repairing clothing and equipment, it didn't feel so overwhelming. The damage to my gear occurred at a rate I was able to manage, checking every so often and "noticing" I might need to repair something.

3. Calories. It was pretty obvious you guys tweaked the calories. I didn't notice a huge change from just simply walking around and watching my calories drop, but I noticed it a lot when sleeping and foraging for wood.

I like the changes made in this last update but I won't stop there. Hopefully, neither will you guys.

[robdoar]

I'm sad. Too easy now.

[madrepityu]

I'm sad. Too easy now.

I just like to say, that I started my current life at v117. I'm in day 24 and I barely seen any wolfs in my map. And that wasn't changed in v117-v125.

When I read the v127. patch notes I was shocked. :shock: What? Less and easier wolfs? I barely have any (like 3-4 on the whole map). What about now?

Everyone's crying about in the forum, how difficult to handle a wolf, etc. I don't understand what are they problem.

Don't walk straight into a wolf if you don't want to fight, and you would be fine. That's all. Just avoid them. The character runs much faster than wolfs, so what are everyone affraid of?

One day I'm desided to get some meat without any ammo or flare. I'm pulled a wolf onto a deer. When he's got it, I went there to kill the wolf. No rifle, no flare. Because that was the point. To not use any ammo or flare, just bare hands because I had plenty of bandages and antibiotics. I can't kill him, but I make him run away after my attack. He's not even bite me.

Next time I will bash the mouse button faster, and I'm sure I will kill him and eat his flesh! :twisted:

I want more wolfs! Badass wolfs! A pack of badass wolfs! :lol:

[levism84]

I'm sad. Too easy now.

Perhaps for you since you've been playing for a lot longer than I have.

All I know is I am hoping as the game develops there will be more and more to see and do and overcome. So, I am okay with things being "too easy" for a little while. When new animals are introduced, new survival strategies and needs, I am sure things will get tough again.

[Arcontis]

I'm sad. Too easy now.

That is why I suggested the difficulty sliders in another topic in this subforum. Those would let us configure the difficulty level we want regarding temperature effects, food consumption, number and damage of aggressive animals, item degradation, etc. This way, the game would appeal to everyone...

[levism84]

I'm sad. Too easy now.

That is why I suggested the difficulty sliders in another topic in this subforum. Those would let us configure the difficulty level we want regarding temperature effects, food consumption, number and damage of aggressive animals, item degradation, etc. This way, the game would appeal to everyone...

I don't think adjusting the game's difficulty is a very good idea in the long run.

Yes, being able to adjust difficulty for calorie loss, condition degrade, and control the random spawns of both resources and enemies would make for an easier (or harder) gaming experience. It would allow people to play on "easy mode" and learn the mechanics of the game before trying progressively harder modes. It might even appeal to a wider range of people (but never to "everyone").

However, the game already sets you into "easy mode" when you begin. You have full condition, full calories, essential starting gear, and you aren't dying of exhaustion, thirst, or cold. As the game progresses, it gets harder and harder to survive. Resources dwindle or completely dry up, clothing continues to degrade, the weather hardly ever ceases to freeze you to your bones, and ultimately you succumb to the elements, wildlife, or your own body's frailties.

Finally, something is lost by having an "easy way out" of the harsh reality this game in attempting to project onto the protagonist. The badges for surviving X many amount of days would lose much of their meaning if you could make things easier on yourself. If you beat story mode or survived for a year in game, you would have to amend that by saying "on hard mode" instead of simply "I survived a full year in the Long Dark."

[levism84]

Update on my current play through this version of the game. I have hit Trapper's Homestead, Tunnel Collapse, Camp Office, all of Mystery Lake's cabins and fishing holes, the Derailment, and the Carter Hydro Dam. I have found 20 bullets, 0 rifles, 3 hunting knives, 1 simple tool kit, 0 sewing kits, a hand axe, a few pry bars, 3 can openers, and 1 fire starter. I am going to head towards Forestry Lookout in the vain hope a rifle has spawned there. Unfortunately, it is a long trek and I only have 1 flare.

I've had the "opportunity" to interact with wolves this play through. I had a flare out and it still attacked me. However, I did come upon one and when it saw me it ran away, which was nice (especially since I was out of flares).

Anyway, I guess my real gripe right now is I have no way to protect myself other than with my bare fists. The sooner you can implement melee weapons, the better.

Thanks.

[robdoar]

You sure you checked the Dam thoroughly? Do you know where the rifle typically is?

[levism84]

You sure you checked the Dam thoroughly? Do you know where the rifle typically is?

I did a very thorough sweep of the building but I didn't find it. Where does it usually spawn if in the Dam?

[madrepityu]

You sure you checked the Dam thoroughly? Do you know where the rifle typically is?

I did a very thorough sweep of the building but I didn't find it. Where does it usually spawn if in the Dam?

[spoil]In the largest room where the fire barell are. And somewhere in the opposite corner of the fire barell. It's hiding behind a barell.

[/spoil]

[levism84]

I double checked and not there. I am just hoping I can make it to the Lookout and that there is one there.

[madrepityu]

Oh boy, I'll pray for you!

[levism84]

Oh boy, I'll pray for you!

You must have been praying to some Greek prankster god, because I made it to the Lookout and... no rifle. I found more bullets though (I'm up to 25!). So far I've hit up every major place and no rifle and no sewing kit.

I would like to suggest when the development team implement the crafting system, we have:

1. The ability to craft our own repair kits, such as sewing kit and repair kit out of resources we find in the wild, such as bone, gut, leather, and wood.

2. The ability to craft bows from wood, gut, and leather along with arrows from wood.

3. The ability to craft winter clothing from leather/pelts that can be repaired with leather.

[levism84]

8 days, 1 hour, 9 minutes...

I was desperate and trying to find the bunker. I was managing myself pretty well for not having any food or a rifle. I was down to 25% condition as I began my last-ditch search for the bunker. At about 13% condition I accidentally fell a bit and was down to 7%. Wandered around until i succumbed to a mixture of hunger, the elements, and my own hubris.

[madrepityu]

8 days, 1 hour, 9 minutes...

I was desperate and trying to find the bunker. I was managing myself pretty well for not having any food or a rifle. I was down to 25% condition as I began my last-ditch search for the bunker. At about 13% condition I accidentally fell a bit and was down to 7%. Wandered around until i succumbed to a mixture of hunger, the elements, and my own hubris.

Sounds pretty bad.

I'm in day 31 right now. In this life I got 2 rifles, 2 hunting knifes, 3 sawing kits, 2 simple tools, 3 storm lanterns, 2 hatchets, etc..

I thought it's always the same amount of item will spawn on the map. Just random places. Now I'm confused. Maybe I'm just lucky in my current life? :shock:

[levism84]

Honestly, I am not complaining. I actually like the fact certain things aren't handed to you or guaranteed. I would just like to have the ability to make up with hard work and thinking what I lack in luck and fate. A weapon I can craft from wood, clothing I can craft from leather.

Crafting skill, please don't disappoint me.

[Toronagga Darklake]

I've had a fun weekend playing TLD...

Managed to cover almost every major location (except that elusive bunker) and doing fairly well with 20 days survived so far. My opinions since the .127 update:

1. [1] Wolves ae now a little TOO scittish. They seem to run as soon as I look in their direction. I would prefere them to be more inquisitive until I react to them (by lighting a flare, shooting the rifle, maybe even running directly to them (though this could be a 50/50 mistake).

1. [2] I do like the howling effect (contrary to previous people's comments), when I hear the howl I am constantly trying tofigure out which direction it came from, looking all ways and it has actually caused me to loose my way in poor visibility (couldn't find my way back home for hours). Surely this is exactly whatwas intended.

1. [3] Clothing degradation is now far less annoying, I don't bother taking it all off to sleep and I just fix anything that drops below 70%. I would like the quality of the item you harvest to reflect how much you actually get though, rather than the standard jeans = 1 cloth, coat = 2 cloth, etc.

1. [4] Weather fronts; these seem to turn a little too quickly imo. one second its pea soup and I can't see a thing, the next it's clear and bright, then its a blizzard. Is there some way of doing this so as there is some sort of increment/build up?

Loving the game so far though, the idea is awesome but it will need to have something more to keep a majority of people interested past the surviving 50 days mark (not withstanding the hard core survivors of course)

[TarjaS]

Loving the game so far though, the idea is awesome but it will need to have something more to keep a majority of people interested past the surviving 50 days mark (not withstanding the hard core survivors of course)

Remember that this is just the first one of the Sandbox areas. The devs have been talking about adding something like 10 areas to the Sandbox, and then of course there's the Story Mode. I'm actually more eager to get more Sandbox areas, although I'm sure the story will be interesting. Once the basic mechanics are working properly after all the tuning and fixing in this first area, the others should be even more fun.

[Dark]

Remember that this is just the first one of the Sandbox areas. The devs have been talking about adding something like 10 areas to the Sandbox, and then of course there's the Story Mode.

Really? 10 more areas of this size? That would be really awsome. I haven't been following this forum or even the kickstarter updates, that is why i ask. Sadly every area i only by the first playthrough the super kick, because if you know the area, it loses the discovery bonus.

[tomas_herbertson]

I'm sad. Too easy now.

That is why I suggested the difficulty sliders in another topic in this subforum. Those would let us configure the difficulty level we want regarding temperature effects, food consumption, number and damage of aggressive animals, item degradation, etc. This way, the game would appeal to everyone...

I don't think adjusting the game's difficulty is a very good idea in the long run.

Yes, being able to adjust difficulty for calorie loss, condition degrade, and control the random spawns of both resources and enemies would make for an easier (or harder) gaming experience. It would allow people to play on "easy mode" and learn the mechanics of the game before trying progressively harder modes. It might even appeal to a wider range of people (but never to "everyone").

However, the game already sets you into "easy mode" when you begin. You have full condition, full calories, essential starting gear, and you aren't dying of exhaustion, thirst, or cold. As the game progresses, it gets harder and harder to survive. Resources dwindle or completely dry up, clothing continues to degrade, the weather hardly ever ceases to freeze you to your bones, and ultimately you succumb to the elements, wildlife, or your own body's frailties.

Finally, something is lost by having an "easy way out" of the harsh reality this game in attempting to project onto the protagonist. The badges for surviving X many amount of days would lose much of their meaning if you could make things easier on yourself. If you beat story mode or survived for a year in game, you would have to amend that by saying "on hard mode" instead of simply "I survived a full year in the Long Dark."

+1 to ludonarrative resonance.

(resonance as the antonym to dissonance, right? I've only seen the term "ludonarrative dissonance" bandied around critically, but...)

[Dark]

I'm sad. Too easy now.

The reason is that you now know the game and all the locations, therefore you know where, what and how todo.

That is why I suggested the difficulty sliders in another topic in this subforum. Those would let us configure the difficulty level we want regarding temperature effects, food consumption, number and damage of aggressive animals, item degradation, etc. This way, the game would appeal to everyone...

While superficial it may sound good, it may lead to different unexpected things. Surely the game will not appeal to everyone, and it may even damage the reputation of the game. Making it easy to survive is not about survival, which should be hard and learned by the player.

I don't think adjusting the game's difficulty is a very good idea in the long run.

Yes, being able to adjust difficulty for calorie loss, condition degrade, and control the random spawns of both resources and enemies would make for an easier (or harder) gaming experience. It would allow people to play on "easy mode" and learn the mechanics of the game before trying progressively harder modes. It might even appeal to a wider range of people (but never to "everyone").

However, the game already sets you into "easy mode" when you begin. You have full condition, full calories, essential starting gear, and you aren't dying of exhaustion, thirst, or cold. As the game progresses, it gets harder and harder to survive. Resources dwindle or completely dry up, clothing continues to degrade, the weather hardly ever ceases to freeze you to your bones, and ultimately you succumb to the elements, wildlife, or your own body's frailties.

Finally, something is lost by having an "easy way out" of the harsh reality this game in attempting to project onto the protagonist. The badges for surviving X many amount of days would lose much of their meaning if you could make things easier on yourself. If you beat story mode or survived for a year in game, you would have to amend that by saying "on hard mode" instead of simply "I survived a full year in the Long Dark."

+1 to ludonarrative resonance.

(resonance as the antonym to dissonance, right? I've only seen the term "ludonarrative dissonance" bandied around critically, but...)

Couldn't agree more. The gameplay and the narrative should be resonating.

Also to add to a general statement for Hinterland devs :

Art is fantastic and i love it. Sound and Music is beautiful and fitting. I have not really found a point, that i would state as a 'No Go' or as a 'deal breaker'. I love the entire game, and i'm proud to be a backer of this Product from Art, Game and Survival mechanisms. If this core is kept throughout the development, then it can only become better and better.

As a becker i have asked, if the skills can through experience become better, sadly i have not recived any answer on this in this comment section of the ks update. (Not that i was really upset, it seems it was just overlooked, and this can happen to anyone, so i have no hard feelings.) The positive surprise of the alpha was to see, that this was included. Also crafting and recipes are a very good thing, that i always love in games.

But i need just to address the adaptation of the body to a hard living conditions under the influence of food sources:

A body with a constant calories and protein deficiency will loose on muscle mass. This in turn will lower the necessary caloric input, and this will lower also the max and long term carrying weight.

A body with a good constant calorie and protein source and a longterm (2 Weeks - 1 Month) exercise, will gain muscle mass or endurance and strength (not even necessary muscle mass) and this will lead in turn to a higher max and long term carrying weight.

There is a point of equilibrium between this both factors, but for the gameplay let me suggest that longer survival ( 1-2 Months) should lead to a better carring weight (not much but 1kg for each 30 days, to a max of 10 kg should do the trick),

but this schuld also raise the overall necessary calorie consumption, by a corresponding factor.

As a proof of concept i suggest to checkin in a fitness studio, and if you wish fürther explanation, i will gladly make them.

And longer periods under the zero calorie marker should reduce the the carrying weight, with the already stated effect on basal metabolism, but more dramatically (faster) than the growing effect.

Since normaly this is more a case of addjusting some minor formulas in functions, this should be not such a problem.

Also the defence against wolves should raise, if a fight against wolves is a more common factor. There are a some fighting tactics against K9, that could be learned, or the use of a knife to kill a wolf in a fight would be good.

[Arcontis]

I'm sad. Too easy now.

The reason is that you now know the game and all the locations, therefore you know where, what and how todo.

That is why I suggested the difficulty sliders in another topic in this subforum. Those would let us configure the difficulty level we want regarding temperature effects, food consumption, number and damage of aggressive animals, item degradation, etc. This way, the game would appeal to everyone...

While superficial it may sound good, it may lead to different unexpected things. Surely the game will not appeal to everyone, and it may even damage the reputation of the game. Making it easy to survive is not about survival, which should be hard and learned by the player.

I don't think adjusting the game's difficulty is a very good idea in the long run.

Yes, being able to adjust difficulty for calorie loss, condition degrade, and control the random spawns of both resources and enemies would make for an easier (or harder) gaming experience. It would allow people to play on "easy mode" and learn the mechanics of the game before trying progressively harder modes. It might even appeal to a wider range of people (but never to "everyone").

However, the game already sets you into "easy mode" when you begin. You have full condition, full calories, essential starting gear, and you aren't dying of exhaustion, thirst, or cold. As the game progresses, it gets harder and harder to survive. Resources dwindle or completely dry up, clothing continues to degrade, the weather hardly ever ceases to freeze you to your bones, and ultimately you succumb to the elements, wildlife, or your own body's frailties.

Finally, something is lost by having an "easy way out" of the harsh reality this game in attempting to project onto the protagonist. The badges for surviving X many amount of days would lose much of their meaning if you could make things easier on yourself. If you beat story mode or survived for a year in game, you would have to amend that by saying "on hard mode" instead of simply "I survived a full year in the Long Dark."

+1 to ludonarrative resonance.

(resonance as the antonym to dissonance, right? I've only seen the term "ludonarrative dissonance" bandied around critically, but...)

Couldn't agree more. The gameplay and the narrative should be resonating.

Also to add to a general statement for Hinterland devs :

Art is fantastic and i love it. Sound and Music is beautiful and fitting. I have not really found a point, that i would state as a 'No Go' or as a 'deal breaker'. I love the entire game, and i'm proud to be a backer of this Product from Art, Game and Survival mechanisms. If this core is kept throughout the development, then it can only become better and better.

As a becker i have asked, if the skills can through experience become better, sadly i have not recived any answer on this in this comment section of the ks update. (Not that i was really upset, it seems it was just overlooked, and this can happen to anyone, so i have no hard feelings.) The positive surprise of the alpha was to see, that this was included. Also crafting and recipes are a very good thing, that i always love in games.

But i need just to address the adaptation of the body to a hard living conditions under the influence of food sources:

A body with a constant calories and protein deficiency will loose on muscle mass. This in turn will lower the necessary caloric input, and this will lower also the max and long term carrying weight.

A body with a good constant calorie and protein source and a longterm (2 Weeks - 1 Month) exercise, will gain muscle mass or endurance and strength (not even necessary muscle mass) and this will lead in turn to a higher max and long term carrying weight.

There is a point of equilibrium between this both factors, but for the gameplay let me suggest that longer survival ( 1-2 Months) should lead to a better carring weight (not much but 1kg for each 30 days, to a max of 10 kg should do the trick). As a proof of concept i suggest to checkin in a fitness studio.

Since normaly this is more a case of addjusting some minor formulas in functions, this should be not such a problem.

Also the defence against wolves should raise, if a fight against wolves is a more common factor. There are a some fighting tactics against K9, that could be learned, or the use of a knife to kill a wolf in a fight would be good.

Perhaps, but when I am speaking about customizing the difficulty to tailor it to one's experience I am referring, for example, what I would do in my case: I would tone down a bit the item degradation, as I think it is a little bit excessive (not too much though, as I agree that it shouldn't be realistic for the game's sake). On the other side, I would increase the temperature effects and difficulty, by setting a much harsher winter, as I don't see it having too much effect right now unless you are caught in a storm. I prefer the temperature management (and careful planning of short trips) rather than a much increased degradation ratio (a little bit is perfect, though).

This is just an example...

[Dark]

Perhaps, but when I am speaking about customizing the difficulty to tailor it to one's experience I am referring, for example, what I would do in my case: I would tone down a bit the item degradation, as I think it is a little bit excessive (not too much though, as I agree that it shouldn't be realistic for the game's sake). On the other side, I would increase the temperature effects and difficulty, by setting a much harsher winter, as I don't see it having too much effect right now unless you are caught in a storm. I prefer the temperature management (and careful planning of short trips) rather than a much increased degradation ratio (a little bit is perfect, though).

This is just an example...

Ahh. Ok that is a different case. You don't want to lower the overall difficulty of the game, only change some factors, towards perhaps more realism. Sorry i could only build my opinion on your statement in this thread.

Yes i think that the degrading of Rifle, Simple Tools and Hatchet is a bit too fast. And i also agree that the weather conditions should be more severe on the health.

Sliders could be very problematic in such a case, because the difficulty states are problematic to determine.

You have to conserve the difficulty (like a overall luminosity only with different colors), by lowering one, raise an other. Perhaps a different game modes could be a better choice, like a choice between: Normal, Realistic, Trapper/Ranger.

Normal would be the normal gameplay case.

Realistic would then conserve the equipment more, but let the weather have more severe effect.

Trapper/Ranger would be then the hardest level, where the equipment degrades fast and the weather kills you faster.

[Arcontis]

That's right, I don't want to make the game easier, as I love challenges. I like the feeling of accomplishment everytime I survive another single day. I think that's the goal of a survival game: a struggle to keep yourself alive against all odds, with always living in the edge of a razor.

However, my perception of the game might not match with other people's, and that's when having the possibility to customize the difficulty shines. In my case, I would make it very difficult, but I understand that some people prefer a little easier approach. Also there are things that personally I want to focus my challenge in (temperature, starvation, exploration and loot), while relegating a little bit others (lowering item degradation ratio, for example).