Weather Instruments

[DarkLightning71]

I have loved the weather since I was very young and recently earned a Bachelor of Science in Atmospheric Sciences. As such I would love to see the implementation of weather instruments. I have to say, the weather system in this game is amazing but there could be a couple of tweaks. Some of these suggestions may have been mentioned before and I apologize if these are repeats!

I would like to see the following additions/changes:

• A mercury or aneroid (no electrical components so it would still work after the geomagnetic storm ) barometer that visibly changes with the weather
  • I think this item should not be part of the HUD, rather sitting on a table/shelf or hanging on the wall
  • Could be found in key locations such as the Camp Office in ML, gas station in CH, farmhouse in PV, Mountaineers Hut in TWM, etc.
  • Would allow you to have a few minutes notice of an impending blizzard so that you could choose whether or not to stay in the safety of your base
• A mercury thermometer
  • Again, this could be found on an outside wall on most structures (since I would think most people living in such an extreme environment would have one at their house)
  • For an added challenge in Stalker mode, the feels like temperature in the HUD could be removed. You would then have to judge how quickly you are cooling based on your warmth bar and try to determine how long you think you have until you're at risk of hypothermia. You would have a better idea of how cold it is based on the outdoor thermometers. Again, this would add a lot of difficulty to the game and should be reserved for the Stalker difficulty
• A portable thermometer
  • This could be a small thermometer that is attached to your backpack
  • It would take a small amount of time to check the temperature and would make it more realistic than simply holding tab or hitting tab every few seconds
• Thundersnow
  • While I live in North Carolina now, I grew up in Vermont and had the opportunity to experience thundersnow
  • Thundersnow is relatively common during really heavy snowfall so it would be possible for a lightning discharge during a blizzard
  • I would like to see one or two lightning strikes every few blizzards as it would be a nice surprise
  • If the lightning strikes a nearby tree, it would be possible that said tree is set on fire. If you were out in a blizzard and were not close enough to be electrocuted, you could potentially run over and pick up a flaming branch after a nearby lightning strike. This would be very rare but could potentially save you if you are freezing to death in a blizzard
• Accumulating snowfall
  • I'm sure this would be a chore to program but wouldn't it be cool to walk out the front door in the morning to see a fresh snowfall?
  • This snowfall could cover the lakes and it could take a breezy day to expose the ice again
• Freezing fog
  • If fog occurs when the temperature is below freezing (as it always is in The Long Dark) it would create a light glaze on all surfaces
  • This would cause the snow to become more slippery, thereby increasing the chances of a sprain
• Snow devils
  • As I mentioned before, I grew up in Vermont and my house was in the middle of a 9 acre field. On many breezy winter days there were visible snow devils crossing the field. This would be a nice aesthetic addition

Now for some non-weather related, fishing suggestions:

• A hand auger
  • A very rare item (only 1 or 2 per sandbox, moderately heavy)
  • Would allow fishing anywhere where water body is not frozen solid
• Tip ups
  • Can be crafted from 1 reclaimed wood and 1 fishing tackle
  • Would not be like a traditional tip up (i.e., no spring loaded flag to alert you of a bite). You would have to manually check to see if a fish is on the line
  • This would allow you to fish while completing other tasks
• Short fishing rod
  • Fishing tackle could be attached for an easier fishing experience (i.e., could speed up fishing...allowing more casts per hour therefore increasing catch rate)
• The ability to harvest a hook from a ruined set of fishing tackle
  • Presumably, you are using the hook as a needle and the line as thread to sew. Once the tackle is at 0% condition the line would be used up but the hook would still be in working order. Once fishing tackle reaches 0%, a hook should automatically appear in your inventory
• Bucket and ability to take water
  • While not related to the fishing mechanics itself, I would like the ability to take water out of the ice fishing holes. Obviously, this water would not be potable and would have to be purified or boiled
  • Rather than using the magical water bottles, I would like the ability to take a large cooking pot off of a stove or find a five gallon pail in the world that could be used to take water out of lakes. These items would come with a weight cost but could be a way to get a much larger amount of water, faster. It would likely only be feasible to use such a container at a base and these items would have to be left behind on hunting trips or treks between maps when more vital gear is necessary
  • Finally, I would like to see the addition of ATVs into the world. When I lived in the rural northern United States, most of the people I knew had one or multiple ATVs. It would not be a stretch to find an atv sitting outside of a place like the Trapper's Cabin in ML or the PV Farmstead. Even a small cabin in the woods could have one sitting outside. Obviously these ATVs wouldn't operate but could potentially have some loot in the storage compartments and could be a source of scrap metal (use hacksaw to break down ATV rack)

Finally, I would love the ability to make more complex shelters. I wish that both an axe and hatchet were available and that the axe could be used to chop down full sized trees. You could turn those trees into logs (all taking a realistic amount of time) and build shelters with the heavy hammer and spikes crafted in the forge or found in the world. Essentially, I would love to be able to build my own home like in The Forest. This would be a nice mechanic for a map like Pleasant Valley where buildings are sparse. You could find your own piece of Canadian paradise and carve out a living there.

Whew! That was a lot but these are a few of the things that have run through my mind while playing that I think could add to the already wonderful gaming experience that is The Long Dark. Let me know what you think and please by all means add related suggestions of your own to this thread!

[Hiemalis]

The weather suggestions are amazing. Oh, and welcome to the forums, @DarkLightning71!

Some of them would be quite expensive to implement, from a dev's point of view (within the scope of both design and programming), I guess. Accumulating snowfall, for example: what would happen if our character is standing outdoors for a few hours while it's heavily snowing? Could we see the snow slowly accumulating? I don't know how the programmers would solve this. (But then again I have no idea what are the limits of the Unity engine.)

I myself have never experienced a temperature below 0° C. Aren't we able to differentiate between -10° and -20° C in real life? If we are, perhaps a numerical approximation (such as the one related to sunlight remaining hours) could be implemented. I like the thermometer idea, but I'd take the barometer more as a cosmetic appliance.

I absolutely love the thundersnow, freezing fog and snow devils ideas.

As for the item suggestions, wouldn't you rather move them to their own topic? I think each category deserves a focused discussion.

[strigon]

1 hour ago, Hiemalis said:

I myself have never experienced a temperature below 0° C. Aren't we able to differentiate between -10° and -20° C in real life? If we are, perhaps a numerical approximation (such as the one related to sunlight remaining hours) could be implemented. I like the thermometer idea, but I'd take the barometer more as a cosmetic appliance.

That's what the arrows are for, showing how fast you're losing heat in a general sense.

You don't go outside and say "feels like -23 out here"; you say "gosh, I've only been out for five minutes and I'm already freezing!".
Same could be said of calories, I suppose - you can tell when you're hungry, and you can certainly tell when you're dying of malnutrition, but you can't say "crap; I've only got 500 calories left of fat stored up!".

[Hiemalis]

1 minute ago, strigon said:

That's what the arrows are for, showing how fast you're losing heat in a general sense. You don't go outside and say "feels like -23 out here"; you say "gosh, I've only been out for five minutes and I'm already freezing!".

Yup, I've noticed the arrows. What I mean is: in real life I can actually estimate the temperature quite accurately without a thermometer -- at least when it's between 0 and, say, 40° C. I can say "it's about 12° C right now" and miss it by only a few degrees. (As well as can other people, I guess.) But since I've never even seen snow, I asked if one could do the same in a below water freezing point environment, i.e. is there a noticeable difference between -10 and -20° C?

[Patrick Carlson]

@DarkLightning71 The attention you pay to weather effects is impressive. I can't say I've ever heard of (or even thought about) something like "thundersnow." Sounds menacing!

The idea of being able to read the temperature only through a specific item is also intriguing (although it would also mark a departure from how the game has done things so far). 

In any case good stuff! And welcome to the forums. Great to have you here. 

 

[miah999]

Maybe you Canadians don't get Thundersnows, but we do here (in WV, USA), they're more weird then anything else. 

[Patrick Carlson]

You'll never see me giving the Canadian perspective. I'm from the USA (albeit the Pacific Northwest, not far from Vancouver Island).

Although I must say I've learned a lot about Canada over the last year-plus. And on-topic, I think "weather" is something that binds people from all over the world to the experience in the game. Either you come from a place where you've suffered through cold weather, or you've maybe never seen it first-hand and find the idea of it fascinating. Either way, The Long Dark might speak to you.

 

[Diamondz]

53 minutes ago, Patrick Carlson said:

You'll never see me giving the Canadian perspective. I'm from the USA (albeit the Pacific Northwest, not far from Vancouver Island).

Although I must say I've learned a lot about Canada over the last year-plus. And on-topic, I think "weather" is something that binds people from all over the world to the experience in the game. Either you come from a place where you've suffered through cold weather, or you've maybe never seen it first-hand and find the idea of it fascinating. Either way, The Long Dark might speak to you.

 

Ah, I see we are neighbors then (geographically speaking, I live in the Seattle area so not too far away from you all either lol!)

[cekivi]

On 2016-08-08 at 9:13 PM, Hiemalis said:

Yup, I've noticed the arrows. What I mean is: in real life I can actually estimate the temperature quite accurately without a thermometer -- at least when it's between 0 and, say, 40° C. I can say "it's about 12° C right now" and miss it by only a few degrees. (As well as can other people, I guess.) But since I've never even seen snow, I asked if one could do the same in a below water freezing point environment, i.e. is there a noticeable difference between -10 and -20° C?

You can in a general sense. -10 starts feeling "warm" after a month of -20!

The one you really notice is wind chill though. You can always tell when it's freezing once the north wind starts blowing...

Also, I've never in my life seen thundersnow. I don't doubt it's a thing, I've just never seen it. Maybe the air is too cold or conditions are too dry? Then again I'm from Northern Ontario so our weather is quite different from either coast.

Anyways, welcome to the forums @DarkLightning71!

For your ideas I'd say +1

Although you missed freezing rain. It's about as terrible as ice fog. Nothing like having the whole world turn into a skating rink to make moving outside interesting...

And I'm always in favour of (and have suggested much the same myself) better ice fishing in the game!

[Wastelander]

On 7.8.2016 at 0:40 AM, DarkLightning71 said:

A mercury or aneroid (no electrical components so it would still work after the geomagnetic storm ) barometer that visibly changes with the weather

•  

 

Good idea, but that'd have to be in the inventory since the art style of TLD seems to make this pretty difficult.

On 7.8.2016 at 0:40 AM, DarkLightning71 said:

A mercury thermometer

• Again, this could be found on an outside wall on most structures (since I would think most people living in such an extreme environment would have one at their house)
• For an added challenge in Stalker mode, the feels like temperature in the HUD could be removed. You would then have to judge how quickly you are cooling based on your warmth bar and try to determine how long you think you have until you're at risk of hypothermia. You would have a better idea of how cold it is based on the outdoor thermometers. Again, this would add a lot of difficulty to the game and should be reserved for the Stalker difficulty

 

As others have stated, you can generally feel the temperature around you. However, I'd have it less precise with the thermometer giving you the correct temperature. Good idea!

On 7.8.2016 at 0:40 AM, DarkLightning71 said:

A portable thermometer

• This could be a small thermometer that is attached to your backpack
• It would take a small amount of time to check the temperature and would make it more realistic than simply holding tab or hitting tab every few seconds

 

I'd love this as a visual update. Kind of like Far Cry 2 handled it's map.

On 7.8.2016 at 0:40 AM, DarkLightning71 said:

Thundersnow

• While I live in North Carolina now, I grew up in Vermont and had the opportunity to experience thundersnow
• Thundersnow is relatively common during really heavy snowfall so it would be possible for a lightning discharge during a blizzard
• I would like to see one or two lightning strikes every few blizzards as it would be a nice surprise
• If the lightning strikes a nearby tree, it would be possible that said tree is set on fire. If you were out in a blizzard and were not close enough to be electrocuted, you could potentially run over and pick up a flaming branch after a nearby lightning strike. This would be very rare but could potentially save you if you are freezing to death in a blizzard

 

Awesome  Thor's wrath

On 7.8.2016 at 0:40 AM, DarkLightning71 said:

Accumulating snowfall

• I'm sure this would be a chore to program but wouldn't it be cool to walk out the front door in the morning to see a fresh snowfall?
• This snowfall could cover the lakes and it could take a breezy day to expose the ice again

 

I have to disagree with this - the individual maps are handcrafted, and adding semi-random piles would ruin the unique art experience in my opinion. Then again, this is just my opinion.

On 7.8.2016 at 0:40 AM, DarkLightning71 said:

Freezing fog

• If fog occurs when the temperature is below freezing (as it always is in The Long Dark) it would create a light glaze on all surfaces
• This would cause the snow to become more slippery, thereby increasing the chances of a sprain

 

You devil  But yeah, that makes sense.

On 7.8.2016 at 0:40 AM, DarkLightning71 said:

Snow devils

• As I mentioned before, I grew up in Vermont and my house was in the middle of a 9 acre field. On many breezy winter days there were visible snow devils crossing the field. This would be a nice aesthetic addition

 

Agreed.

On 7.8.2016 at 0:40 AM, DarkLightning71 said:

A hand auger

• A very rare item (only 1 or 2 per sandbox, moderately heavy)
• Would allow fishing anywhere where water body is not frozen solid

 

So... on ice-fishing holes? Thin ice?

On 7.8.2016 at 0:40 AM, DarkLightning71 said:

Tip ups

• Can be crafted from 1 reclaimed wood and 1 fishing tackle
• Would not be like a traditional tip up (i.e., no spring loaded flag to alert you of a bite). You would have to manually check to see if a fish is on the line
• This would allow you to fish while completing other tasks

 

Yep. When I go fishing I rarely pay attention to all my fishing rods at the same time (usually, I pay attention to my beer and whoever's with me - I put little bells on the tips of my rods to get an audio cue. Maybe we can make something from more scrap metal to get an audio cue in the game?)

On 7.8.2016 at 0:40 AM, DarkLightning71 said:

Short fishing rod

• Fishing tackle could be attached for an easier fishing experience (i.e., could speed up fishing...allowing more casts per hour therefore increasing catch rate)

 

Length doesn't matter when ice fishing (I really hope I didn't just produce some accidental innuendo). How fine the rod is however... some fish are more cautious and barely move the tip of the rod, others fight like berzerkers despite being the size of my thumb.

On 7.8.2016 at 0:40 AM, DarkLightning71 said:

The ability to harvest a hook from a ruined set of fishing tackle

• Presumably, you are using the hook as a needle and the line as thread to sew. Once the tackle is at 0% condition the line would be used up but the hook would still be in working order. Once fishing tackle reaches 0%, a hook should automatically appear in your inventory

 

Actually, the line snaps and the hook is lost on the ground of the lake. Happens all the time in real life.

On 7.8.2016 at 0:40 AM, DarkLightning71 said:

Bucket and ability to take water

•  

 

That's been mentioned and generally agreed with before. I also stated in another thread that I'd love to take some salt water to boil and get the salt out

 

All in all, very solid suggestions. Also, in case I haven't done so in another thread: Welcome to the forums!

[Felli]

These weather ideas are amazing! I hope they take a few of them into consideration, especially the Thundersnow. I've experienced it twice in my life and it's both awesome and terrifying, especially if you have a fear of lightning. (like me ._.)

 

I also like the idea of a bucket to take water and the idea of an auger.

[DarkLightning71]

I've been busy the last few days and haven't had a chance to get back on the forums. I'm glad to see many of my ideas are being well received and thanks y'all for the warm welcome! As someone that dabbles in programming, I have no doubt that a lot of these would be very complicated and expensive to implement. I do hope that they are able to introduce a few of the easier ones though.

Since I have a meteorology degree I feel that I can offer a bit of background on thundersnow. It is essentially found in a wintertime thunderstorm and is more common during very heavy snowfall, although heavy snowfall is not an end all requirement. I'm honestly not sure how often it occurs in Canada and I'm not aware of much current research into Canadian thundersnow. It occurs most commonly in the United States in lake-effect snowbands off of the Great Lakes and in the central plains to mid-Atlantic regions. Research has shown that graupel (the styrofoam looking pellets that bounce on contact with objects but are not hailstones) is necessary for separating charges in a cloud during the winter. It is possible that the air is too cold, and therefore too dry because the temperature of the air is related to the amount of moisture it can hold, to support graupel formation and therefore thundersnow. Because it is likely rare in northern Canada, I would suggest that it would be rare in the game as well...just something every now and again as a immersive and artistic touch.

Regarding the decision to place all of these in one thread and not keep the weather instruments separate...I figured it would be best to keep all of my suggestions in one place where all could be discussed, rather than cluttering up the forum with multiple threads.

@cekivi I did think about freezing rain! I was just wondering how they might implement it. Maybe there could be an artistic implementation of icicles hanging from the trees and there could be a much greater risk of sprains on non-flat ground. I have been through multiple ice storms (the worst of which was in 1998 and is pictured on the right) and walking on flat ground is difficult, unless it's just a crust over the snow that you can break through...then it's a lot easier lol. In my experience, things like car doors are frozen shut so after an ice storm they could make cars inaccessible, etc.

@Wastelander My thoughts for the ice auger were that you would have the option to drill a hole anywhere you wanted as long as there was water underneath. For instance, you may not be able to drill a hole and fish on Unamed Pond but you could drill a hole anywhere in Mystery Lake or Coastal Highway, etc. It should be noted that the freshwater ice in the game is likely 1-3 feet deep or more so drilling a hole by hand would take a long time and would likely deplete your stamina bar. You might even move into the "winded" or "tired" classification if you were fully rested to begin. I suppose it takes a fair amount of time to chip out current ice fishing holes and that's with a hunting knife, hatchet, or prybar. An auger would be faster than a hunting knife and take less energy. Maybe I'm under the impression that clearing a fishing hole should be more energy consuming than it is now and if an auger were implemented, it would use less energy to use than the other tools.

The tip up I was mentioning that could be crafted would be like the one pictured on the right. You would use the reclaimed wood for the cross piece and attach the fishing tackle. I suppose you could potentially use a scrap metal and a cloth to make the flag but I'm not sure if your average survivor would have the skills to make a release and spring for the flag. Most would be able to attach a fishing line to a piece of wood and place it across the hole so I think it should be limited to this. Either way, I'd like to see this implemented!

 

Regarding the fishing tackle...I was speaking of using the tackle as a sewing kit. If the line broke when you were fishing you would lose the hook on the bottom of the lake. But if you were using the fishing line as thread for sewing and the hook as the needle...when you reach the end of the line, you should be able to clip the hook off of the end of the line to use for sewing again. Just attach another line to the hook and you're good to go! The reason I'm suggesting this is in my last game, I used two fishing tackles to make some clothing in the ML Camp Office. After I used each tackle they were labeled "ruined" and I just set the off on one of the shelves for all eternity. I thought it was strange that you couldn't get the hook back since surely it wasn't stuck in the clothing and would still be very usable. It would also create less clutter around your base after crafting since the hook would be back in your inventory and the line would be in the clothing you crafted.

Finally, I guess what I'd like to see in terms of the temperature mechanic is that it is more of a rough estimate. I think the best option for an exact value would be the requirement that you check a small thermometer attached to your backpack. This would have a very small time cost and could either be an animation or appear in the HUD. It might be strange to have a small thermometer on you but I know they make mercury (well actually alcohol) thermometers that are only four or five inches tall so it would be portable enough.

I just thought of another thing that bothers me regarding the weather in the game. On a clear day, you can see clouds on the horizon in all directions. This could be possible but isn't likely. I think it would be a nice effect so that you could see the clouds from the next storm rolling in from only one direction. As a weather nerd, I have to say that TLD has one of the best weather systems of any game I've played and it makes the game a lot more enjoyable for me. These are just ways that I think it could be tweaked to become the best weather system in any survival game on the market.

I'd like to end by sharing a video from a couple of years ago of Jim Cantore from The Weather Channel experiencing thundersnow. If you've never experienced thundersnow or have never seen this particular video and you have a couple of minutes, I recommend checking it out!

 

[cekivi]

2 hours ago, DarkLightning71 said:

It occurs most commonly in the United States in lake-effect snowbands off of the Great Lakes and in the central plains to mid-Atlantic regions. Research has shown that graupel (the styrofoam looking pellets that bounce on contact with objects but are not hailstones) is necessary for separating charges in a cloud during the winter. It is possible that the air is too cold, and therefore too dry because the temperature of the air is related to the amount of moisture it can hold, to support graupel formation and therefore thundersnow. Because it is likely rare in northern Canada, I would suggest that it would be rare in the game as well...just something every now and again as a immersive and artistic touch.

Yeah, I don't know about the Pacific Northwest but that would explain why I've never seen thundersnow. The air is so dry in the winter that you can get nose bleeds in Northern Ontario. Humidifying your house is not uncommon

2 hours ago, DarkLightning71 said:

@cekivi I did think about freezing rain! I was just wondering how they might implement it. Maybe there could be an artistic implementation of icicles hanging from the trees and there could be a much greater risk of sprains on non-flat ground. I have been through multiple ice storms (the worst of which was in 1998 and is pictured on the right) and walking on flat ground is difficult, unless it's just a crust over the snow that you can break through...then it's a lot easier lol. In my experience, things like car doors are frozen shut so after an ice storm they could make cars inaccessible, etc.

Looks about right! My hometown dodged that ice storm that hit Ontario and Quebec that year but we had a lot of blizzards to compensate. The freezing car doors are definitely a thing (I once had my car covered in 1 cm of ice overnight!) but it's not that hard to break the ice off. Maybe just have it cost a few calories and 5 min of time? As for walking... yeah. Major increase of sprains even on level ground. Ice is slippery!

2 hours ago, DarkLightning71 said:

My thoughts for the ice auger were that you would have the option to drill a hole anywhere you wanted as long as there was water underneath. For instance, you may not be able to drill a hole and fish on Unamed Pond but you could drill a hole anywhere in Mystery Lake or Coastal Highway, etc. It should be noted that the freshwater ice in the game is likely 1-3 feet deep or more so drilling a hole by hand would take a long time and would likely deplete your stamina bar. You might even move into the "winded" or "tired" classification if you were fully rested to begin. I suppose it takes a fair amount of time to chip out current ice fishing holes and that's with a hunting knife, hatchet, or prybar. An auger would be faster than a hunting knife and take less energy. Maybe I'm under the impression that clearing a fishing hole should be more energy consuming than it is now and if an auger were implemented, it would use less energy to use than the other tools.

Yes and no. The auger is something I definitely support but an auger with a small diameter hole (6") and sharp blades isn't that hard to use. Even someone as out of shape as I am can drill some holes in a short amount of time. The stamina hit should be small but it should take half (or more) of your fatigue bar. Your arms will get tired but the rest of you is fine. As for clearing a hole... it depends on how long it's had to freeze. If it's been a week you're better off drilling a new hole (it'll be frozen solid). A few hours in moderate temperatures will only produce a few centimeters of ice which is easy enough to clear. Also, if the hole is covered (e.g. with snow) than the snow will insulate it and it won't freeze all the way. You then just clear the snow away and can keep fishing.

 

2 hours ago, DarkLightning71 said:

The tip up I was mentioning that could be crafted would be like the one pictured on the right. You would use the reclaimed wood for the cross piece and attach the fishing tackle. I suppose you could potentially use a scrap metal and a cloth to make the flag but I'm not sure if your average survivor would have the skills to make a release and spring for the flag. Most would be able to attach a fishing line to a piece of wood and place it across the hole so I think it should be limited to this. Either way, I'd like to see this implemented!

I've used tip ups before but I find my method of ice fishing is more effective overall. The benefit of a tip up is the line is under the water's surface. That way, even if you forget to clear your holes, the line can still spool out and won't get caught on the ice. The downside is they have a little bit more drag/resistance so the fish may bite and not take the hook. If you're diligent with clearing your ice fishing holes a bent sapling and flag tape are as if not more effective. There is almost no resistance if done right and even if it's setup wrong the elasticity of the sapling will allow for gradual resistance increase which may even help catch the fish.