Wellbeing System

[illanthropist]

From the Roadmap:

Wellbeing system (i.e. mental/emotional cost of survival; “willpower locket” fits in here)

When I first read posts discussing a morale mechanic I have to admit I was kind of apprehensive thinking it would just be a mundane balancing act like playing the sims but the more I thought about it the more I liked the idea, particularly after wondering what on Earth the willpower locket is.  The results of some digging realised this:

http://thelongdark.gamepedia.com/Polaroid_Photo

http://thelongdark.gamepedia.com/Locket (reserved for certain backers on kickstarter)

Now I have to admit, I think it's a mechanic that will work extremely well within the context of the game, with psychology being key to survival and with items like these it won't just add +1 to a happy meter but provide even more immersion as you go on day to day.

Some items in the game could add to this already, from memory there was nothing like a good hot cup of tea after a long days hiking trails in crappy weather, I've found myself in the past reciting the Tolkien poem "the road goes ever on" when close to breaking point or Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were here."

So after much contemplation gotta say I'm pretty stoked for this, should it ever make the cut.

On a lighter note, after @Patrick Carlson posted on twitter about 2001 A Space Odyssey can't help thinking it would be funny to hear your character succumbing to loss of will muttering:

Quote

I'm afraid. I'm afraid, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a... fraid.

Singing daisy, daisy as you trail off into the long dark might be a bit too much though...

 

 

[cekivi]

True. I had a post a while back about the benefits of a morale system. Both to give more depth to your character and as a way to disincentivize players from using the starvation-hibernation exploit. I for one am very interesting in seeing where the studio runs with this idea  

[Vhalkyrie]

I'm hoping the "well-being" system will be modeled similarly to the excellent example in the game Amnesia: The Dark Descent.  This was the scariest game I never finished playing.  I got a demo copy of the game, got so scared I couldn't play anymore, so I watched streamers play it instead, which was somehow less scary.  Maybe because watching the streamers screaming/crying made it feel like I wasn't alone in the dark!  

Anyway, the Amnesia game had a "sanity" meter.  When Daniel, the protagonist, spent too much time in the dark, he would start losing points on the sanity meter.  If the sanity meter dropped too low, he would get scared.  If he got scared, he would start hallucinating and whimpering, which attracted the attention of monsters.  Daniel restored sanity by staying in well lit areas (which also makes him more noticeable to monsters), and by completing story objectives.

It's a very well done model.  I highly recommend it if you can handle playing it - or just watch streamers and cover your eyes at the scary parts like a movie!

[Vilespectre]

Amnesia is a fantastic game, and one of my favorites. I liked the lightweight, meaningful sanity system they had. +1

I feel that having low sanity/well-being should increase the fatigue rate: the majority of people with depression get more lethargic as the condition worsens. Also, people tend to have lower willpower when depressed, leading to carelessness (higher sprain rate) and overeating (representable by increased calorie drain). This described my own experiences with depression pretty well, at least as it relates to a survival scenario  .

[Vhalkyrie]

My thought about the well-being system with an Amnesia-like model is very similar.  While your hunger, fatigue, hydration, etc is high, you are generally well off and perform optimally walking, running, aiming weapons, and healing while sleeping.  If you are hungry on a consistent basis, your well-being drops.  If well-being drops below 50%, you get depressed.  After you are depressed, your performance drops on a rapid scale and you heal less efficiently.  Consistently low condition would also make you depressed - around 20%-30% condition you would have a fear of death (like where Daniel would start whimpering!).  Eating, drinking, and sleeping raise well-being and condition.

[LucidFugue]

Interesting points. I, too, am a huge fan of Fractional Games' work. Amnesia hits a wonderful balance through the tension of needing light to retain sanity, yet needing darkness for protection. Layered on this is the limited resources of matches and lamp oil, making the decision to light an area temporarily versus permanently a considered one. If you haven't yet, check out their latest title, SOMA, which is absolutely beautiful to look at, and thought provoking. I put it on par with Amnesia, and I'm really impressed to see the team repeat their success in a completely different setting, tackling a deeper story.

I, too, felt like a morale system wasn't going to fit with TLD, because my initial go-to was another "needs bar" and that seemed artificial. And morale - or the will to survive, is different to sanity. Low-Sanity hallucinations would be pretty amazing, but I don't know that the vision for TLD is to have mirage-wolves or moving shadows when you're searching for supplies in a dark house. I'm on board if it is, but I haven't seen any indications and I suspect it might be alienating.

I worry chiefly that a "will to survive" morale system might kill the player off just because they were in a tricky situation that they otherwise would have survived (who doesn't love coming back from a starvation/lost in a blizzard event?), or that it is far too subtle to factor into decision making (i.e. for the most part you never need to even worry about it).

 

[illanthropist]

47 minutes ago, LucidFugue said:

I worry chiefly that a "will to survive" morale system might kill the player off just because they were in a tricky situation

I imagine the photo and lockets linked in my original post would be there to stop that happening in desperate times, though of course it's a limited use item so won't bail you out forever.

[Vhalkyrie]

I didn't mean to imply that the hallucinations should be in the well being system, like Amnesia.  I'm just saying it is a good model that should be used as an influence.  Depression shouldn't cause hallucinations, just moments of despair.

Agree with illanthropist that the locket probably will give you a moment of temporary courage. I understand your point though.  Once I got mauled by a bear and I literally crawled to the farmhouse with dropping condition and made it with 2% health.  It is a good point that with the well being slider, would I have made it? If illanthropist is right, maybe yes if I had the locket for a momentary will to live boost.

[hauteecolerider]

4 hours ago, Vhalkyrie said:

I didn't mean to imply that the hallucinations should be in the well being system, like Amnesia.  I'm just saying it is a good model that should be Used as an influence.  Depression shouldn't cause hallucinations, just moments of despair.

Agree with illanthropist that the locket probably will give you a moment of temporary courage. This understand your point though.  Once I got mauled by a bear and I literally crawled to the farmhouse with dropping condition and made it with 2% health.  It is a good point that with the well being slider, would I have made it? If illanthropist is right, maybe yes if I had the locket for a momentary will to live boost.

Oh, I don't know about that. A lot of this will to live comes from the players ourselves. When faced with an impossible situation such as that described by @Vhalkyrie how many of us throw in the controller? I've been in situations similar to this and I know I thought of taking my hands off the keyboard and letting The Long Dark win, as well as the cheat of escaping out of the game before that moment arrived and going back to the previous save. But because I didn't give up, my character didn't, and either she beat the odds, or she died trying. I think I would resent any system that interferes with my choices in such situations. That's why I'm not say much about the Wellbeing system until I see how it is implemented in the Story Mode.

[cekivi]

If anything, seeing shelter and safety so close may give you that last bit of adrenaline you'd need to make it. It's easier to crawl to safety when you can see it in front of you. Now, if you got mauled by a bear in the middle of nowhere (say, halfway up Timberwolf Mountain) then maybe despair could set in and result in you perishing faster. The key is any system that is implemented has to be flexible to incorporate the players current disposition, inventory and location. No supplies, hypothermic, starving, lost and wounded? You'll likely not make it. Severely wounded, but otherwise in good shape with shelter in sight? Heck yeah, I'm not dying today!