Looper

On 1/26/2022 at 2:26 AM, piddy3825 said:

I can respect your ideas for trying to remake the game with improved mechanics that simulate real life conditions closer.  Maybe some tweaking of the custom game settings could be manipulated to give you those finer points that you seek.  However, it seems to me you want more of a survival simulator game based on real world conditions.  I honestly don't see the mod developers putting that much effort into rewriting the game in order to make that happen here.  But, if something of that magnitude were to made available as payable DLC, how much would you be willing to pay for that type of content?

Good points. And maybe you are right. 

Actually its not so much the realism but the challenge. Many "unrealistic" things im fine with. Overaggressive wolves, the wierd being tired and hungry damage on so on - because its adding to the game challenge. 

If modding would strengthen the middle game challenge and add diversity (i.e. more purpose of running around to survive) I would pay good amounts. Interloper become a little stale at 50-70 days when you have all the gear.  

Imagine all your stocked supplies making a real difference. Imagine the succes when you must find an item to stay on survival - could be a book or some medicine - and you find it! Heureka! 

There could be some extra cold nights where you have to get a fire going inside - thus need firewoodstock.    

What one could consider first is: What do I want the mod to accomplish gameplaywise. Obviously adding thing A or thing B is a short time benefit. It will make the game slightly easier as a player power creep but will do little but drive need for thing c and d. 

Better to add some mechanics or meaning to drive new gameplay. To me some of the fundamentals could need some rework. 

• Meaning of indoor fireplaces: all the neat indoor fireplaces a rarely used because with few exemptions all buildings (and caves in interloper) are warm. It removes the one core survival need for warmth and firewood. Why? How about a heating up a house mechanic where the indoors starts slightly above outside (minus wind) and can be heatet. Would be cool if the roaring fire was a need and not a luxury.  
• Meaning of searching: Many items have no real meaning despite them being so fleshed out in the game world. Different foods, cans and books, money, papers, letters etc. How about mental condition or diverse food need to drive the need for such items in the home base and the good feeling when finding them? 
• Balancing outdoor fires: Outdoor fires are so insanely easy to make compared to real life its and immersion breaker. Wolf comming? Vupti  - fireplace makes out of the blue and in the 10 seconds you have a fire even with wind blowing somewhat. Outdoor fires should require some crafting and ressources as @GothSkunk suggested. And what's with the magic of pulling torches out of fires? 
• Make fishing and trapping needed some times again: The gameworld is littered with cattails which require no cooking or ressources to eat (yikes dry😄). Stones can kill rabbits easy and deer are everywhere. This totally makes trapping and fishing void in any interloper game unless you have need for lamp oil.  Why not remove the stones mechanich with the rabbits. It's gamish and wierd to crouch shot stones while rabbits run around you in circles. And fish should be a mutch needed diversity of food.   

Just some considerations 

On 1/4/2022 at 8:37 AM, Drifter Man said:

I suspect I am getting way more praise than I deserve, but it is great to know so many people found my writing useful and inspiring to start their own great virtual adventures. See you around and keep warm out there 

Could a good challenge bring you back? 🙂Also love your writings ✊

On 1/13/2022 at 8:57 AM, The Lord of the Long Dark said:

Yep lost my 1000 day interloper in BP by getting caught in aurora with timberwolves. 
  Definitely the hardest region in the game BUT also absolutely no reason to go there in interloper just like for BI. The vest is nothing more than a paperweight and I have no use for the noisemakers at all.  There is no draw for interlopers to go there like there is for AC for example. 
  I wish the developers would give some incentive such as making crampons repairable only at a mill, or making flare shells at the ammunition bench. Even then I’d only do it at BI. 

Valid point. Trouble is one can say that of many regions. Interloper midgame sort of lacks drive (i.e when you have bow, gear and lot of saplings etc.). Why fi go to broken railroad? Hope for a whetstone and some saplings. All other loot - do you really need it?

It would be great if the first DLC would aim for putting some pressure on Interloper midgame. I think what drives interlopers is the early game intensity - you vs the game.  What also could be funny would be a small (very small) chance for some prime loot in some containers. That would make IL's go check. 

Same here! Say if need a screenshot or other thing - but HL said they are looking into it✊

On 11/7/2021 at 11:29 AM, Mistral said:

Yes but even with Interloper spawn points, the first toilet or can of soda isn't normally THAT far out of reach. I mean you will lose some percentage there but so will you anyway if the game chooses for you to spawn in the middle of the night in a blizzard in woods right? Besides, you can usually find a flare or something to make a quick emergency fire anyway.

With guaranteed matches, is it really about skill if you immediately know where to run at and it becomes just memory game...? Starting at Timberwolf Mountain for example isn't much of a challenge since you know you just have to hit the Hut and you're safe... you can even do Summit or head to AC on your first days since you got those guaranteed matches...

Real survival is very much about luck... what skill is there in knowing spawns beforehand. That's why you need to improvise and your decisions matter

Anyhow, even having said all of this, I still think that the guaranteed matches are lesser of a problem than the amount of matches/firelighters in general even on Loper loot. As said before, there's just a RIDICULOUS amount of them and you really don't even need to do torch fires since you still end up with zillion matches. Especially after having mag lens. Of which by the way, there should be only one in the game IMO, in a randomized place (preferably on a map like Bleak Inlet where you orherwise wouldn't go on Deadman) so you can't rely quite so much on it early(ish) game.

I think the discussion of how the hardcore difficulty could be developed could and should survive to a new thread. I have same sentiment as Mistral and dont like the "you can always just make your own house rule". Personally I hope DLC has new ways of expanding game mechanichs to give more flavor to long time surviving. Some very good elements has been added in the base game but some things (like loot tables) dont make sense. 

Wandering wolves where some packs move freely out of spawn zones into new areas or even maps ... 😬 

To me the game deadmans challenge was one the funniest new game states from the community. I remember the first ones saying like "dont go for a bow, it will never work", now some play it permanent for days and days 🙂

Amen well said

It doesn't "talk down" to its players and is god damn beautifull.🙂

BRR - it's just a dead end choke with nothing to do.

Henry Ford: “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”

Go with a clear vision for a new game. People don't know what they want. 

On 2/25/2021 at 11:53 AM, peteloud said:

In the past week I have tried playing at Interloper level.  I have found it extremely difficult, and not enjoyable.  I have managed to survive to around 30 days but only after slipping into the long dark a great many times.  Fortunately I backed up my saves, restored a good save and continued. Yet I have often read postings from people who say it is easy and claim many very long runs in Interloper.  I am a very experienced player at Stalker and Voyager level with thousands of game days and thousands of hours played.  Why is it that I find it so difficult and some others claim they find it so easy?

I am coming to the conclusion that these people who find it easy must have edited the save file to give themselves warm clothing, good tools, skills etc. and used Fandom or other spoiler webpages/forums to tell them what strategy to use and where to go to find essential resources. Although familiar with the maps the only Interloper pre-information that I had was that there are no guns in Interloper.

Has anyone played a straight Interloper game, without the benefits of editing their save file and no pre-information from spoiler webpages/forums to tell them what strategy to follow, where to go to find essential resources and survived past, 50 days?

The akward savegame thing in your post reminds me of when deadman challenge arrived. Some said it couldnt be done. Some said you could only do it by knowing the game code. Some said you couldn't get a bow but should hunker down. Then - when everyone learned the technique - it became manageable. Its like everything skill bases - when you know the tricks and ways it doesn't seam like magic anymore  

To my view it has to do with adapting a new way of playing. My theory is that is actually very hard to go from voyager / stalker to interloper. All other difficulty levels aren't a survival experience since loot is abundant and food is too. The player goes freely around the map enjoying looting places. In interloper most places are empty only the big ones really needs to be visited and loot-food is scarce. This means that the pace must be increased and one should pay close attention to all the natural food (cattails, carcasses, teas). Interloper is about  high tempo and search for hammer /hacksaw, saplings and bedroll to get to bow. Then skins and clothes and skills.

Best of luck and try again with new mindset.🙂

On 2/13/2021 at 1:48 PM, Mistral said:

While I do think that this is either trolling or the arguments are otherwise weak, I do agree that a 5th officially difficulty level needs to be added. And since Hinterland already recognized it in the As the Dead Sleep challenge, it's obvious it should be Deadman.

Well, Deadman with low harvestable plants and high wind variability.

Interloper is the Ultra-Violence of Doom.

While I agree with this post it always comes back to the fact that the interloper experience stagnates to soon. The trouble being the short "tech tree" and the ease of keeping the meters up when you learn a few tricks. 

Hinterland did a good job of adding some nes gameplay elements while not demotivating players. (well fed buff, sprains mechanics) and they also got rid of the worst game exploits. The new maps are cool and diverse.

I feel that what the game could use is one or mere new mid game related meters or conditions (like sanity). The game world has a lot of items already that could be used to this (paper, books, churches, pictures).  Also eating nothing but meat should trigger some condition promoting finding vegetables and fruits.  

Also the cooling of the game world should include indoors and caves. The cave temperature bonus should be removed.

Don't put to much into what you read in forums.🙃

Good thread though.

2 hours ago, Mistral said:

Disagree, the extra flare gun shells alone make it worthwile

And if I spawn near TWM or PV I will always attempt to do Summit right away, even if it means sleeping in snow shelter without bedroll

Exactly - plus loot is very rare in loper so proportionate theres quite a stash in the summit. Matches, clothes - all you need for at good start. When starting a loper its summit within 10 days. WHEN you have a hacksaw

23 hours ago, Bean said:

There is ALWAYS a hacksaw on the summit in the plane.  It’s always lying out where you can get it, but often under or behind something.

Not in loper. Just for the record 😅

My advice:

- only travel in afternoon and (not in blizzard). Try to keep to the sheltered from wind where possible. Take som condition loss but never below 50 pct.

- make some tea before you go on long walks (birch can be found in the ravine f.i.). Drink one right away and keep one warm with you to drink after at short while. The effect on not cooling down is very substantial 

- use caves on the way  to warm up by lighting af fire - coal drives temp insanely high fast. 

- personally i would go to PV . theres good clothes in both radiohut and farmstead, and u gotta move for the summit. The walk contains many warm up places (caves, indoor/outdoor). 

- make improvised headgear from clothes.

Good luck survivor!

Actually many of the items was taken care of.

The well-fed bonus plus some rework of wolves. The meat and water feeze was adressed by hinterland with a good explaination.

Just for the record  

On 1/24/2021 at 1:39 AM, galahan said:

really entirely lost the will the play this game again. if any devs care at all. make your games punishing, but not idiotically punishing

you have my sympathy but ... try to enjoy a game where your (and my) mistakes are punished. 

Not a game on rails or where your actions doesn't really matter. 

Hit the restart and enjoy the kick of the first 20 days! 

Agree. Fun to read and nice shots.

Are we dead ? 

So good work. Your so close to forging in FM and move to the midgame  Have you found a maple to be curing for the bow and birch for the arrows?

41 minutes ago, Ragwort said:

Thanks! I ended up going a different way but I did bring the rope with me. Oof it's heavy though 😆

It is. Sometimes theres a rope in the ravine - but not a guaranteed spawn.  

Well done looting Quonset.  The reason why I often avoid the road u go is the somewhat lurking wolf that roams just near the trailer. So watch out.

I

1 hour ago, Ragwort said:

The other option was to go directly to Quonset Garage, where I hope I might find a Bedroll for the trip to Mystery Lake

keep up mate! If you go up the river (take all cattails) and sleep at the cottage on the left just before the bridge and tunnel, you can easily go through ravine without bedroll. I ML theres lots of places where bedroll could be [no spoilers]. 

Also : bring a rope if its in the fishing village. For the trip down to the ravine to get you know what 

Go and enjoy your 50 th day in the lake overlook ML. Make som coffe and enjoy the lake sight.🤠

Or the depressing one: Go to the ravine and go out the broken track. Stare down, way down.😂

Uff my friend - I think you need to rush to the coalmine and the coastal highway 🙂

16 minutes ago, Dr. S. said:

I don't see how adding external drivers encourages new play styles; they're just additional meters to be filled.

I think we see the game differently - which is fine OFC. But by your argument: Why have longer animal spawn times, cooling world, cabin fever-condition or even skills and buffs? Because these give sense of achivement key to any game. I think most players enjoy the first 30 days of the game the most. Thats where you strive and where you use your brain to survive. 

I'll never be a fan of self-made "goals" other than challenges (like DMC)

3 hours ago, Dr. S. said:

I think the genius of survival mode in TLD is that it puts the player in the same mental situation as the survivor. There is no guidance on what to do, where to go, or why. Just as if you were isolated on GBI in reality.

While I agree with not being forced surely you would agree the standard mechanics (hunger thirst cold etc. and conditions) are promoting the sense of survival while driving the players to find playstyles. To find a more easy experience one can just chose a custom game and switch them off. Some form of mental health or even a condition like scurvy could make certain items more valuable and thus encourage new play styles.