Snowshoes...

[Fearsclave]

IMHO, the game needs them. Anybody who's ever tried to bash around the Canadian bush in winter can testify as to why.

[edgepixel]

Definitely, if combined with more in-depth snow behavior, like buildup of snow depth that would slow the player down.

[tadamir]

Coming from Australia, I don't know much about snowshoes aside from a general impression that the increased surface area allows you to walk 'on top' of snow instead of sinking into it with each step and therefore reducing the fatigue of walking in snow, but what would the balancing draw-back be?

Can you run in snowshoes?

If not, then perhaps equipping snowshoes would mean less fatigue build-up, at the cost of not being able to run/sprint at all?

[Fearsclave]

Coming from Australia, I don't know much about snowshoes aside from a general impression that the increased surface area allows you to walk 'on top' of snow instead of sinking into it with each step and therefore reducing the fatigue of walking in snow, but what would the balancing draw-back be?

Can you run in snowshoes?

If not, then perhaps equipping snowshoes would mean less fatigue build-up, at the cost of not being able to run/sprint at all?

That's basically how snowshoes work; the more surface area they have, the less you sink into the snow, and the easier it is to move in snow. You can get some tiny little ornamental ones that are great for a short nance around groomed trails as a warm-up for some hardcore aprés-ski partying, some fairly technical modular ones for mountaineering, generic ones for walks in the winter woods, bigger ones for forestry work/backpacking/winter camping, traditional wood and sinew ones in a variety of shapes, etc.

Once the snow gets past calf deep, snowshoes are a mobility enhancer. Waist-deep snow? You need them if you want to cover any serious distance in reasonable time without exhausting yourself.

The way to think about snowshoes is that they don't so much provide a mobility advantage as they mitigate the mobility disadvantage of snow. The deeper the snow, the more disadvantage they mitigate. Think of snow as an exponentially increasing debuff. In snowshoes, you can trudge with slightly more effort than walking in a snow-free surface, and run with difficulty at lower speeds and over shorter distances, regardless of snow depth.

Bear in mind that snow isn't all the same: six inches of wet heavy sticky snow is worse than a foot of light fluffy powdery stuff, and if it's crusted hard, you can walk around without snowshoes easily, until you break through the crust, at which point you'll start wishing you had worn snowshoes. And where hard packed paths have been worn, you don't need snowshoes so long as you stay on the path, although the crampons on modern snowshoes will save you the odd slip and fall.

In ankle to calf-deep snow, you can walk without them, and you can run without them, albeit with more effort than without the snow. Running with snowshoes is a bit of a PITA and not as easy as running without them. The snow is deep enough to slow you slightly, help you slip and fall, let you trip over buried obstacles etc., but is still not a huge impediment to mobility. Especially if you're carrying a pack, your snowshoes will still be sinking in somewhat. It's a bit of a tie between snowshoes or not at this point.

Mid-calf to above the knee depth is where snow starts being a bit of a hassle. Without them walking is noticeably more difficult and running significantly harder and slower. With snowshoes you continue to trudge along and be able to run without difficulty. Here is where snowshoes start to shine.

Mid-thigh to waist deep you can basically thrash around over short distances. Running is extremely difficult and not possible over more than short distances. Snowshoes let you just trudge along over all this are are a necessity if you want to walk any farther than a few kilometers. You can actually "run" faster over waist-deep snow in snowshoes than you can without them. This is where snowshoes start becoming a necessity.

With snow chest deep, you need snowshoes for trips longer than a walk out to the latrine. Period. There are tales of voyageurs in winter who saved their snowshoes first when their cabins caugh fire. In really deep snow, they're a life saving essential.

[tadamir]

Thanks for the reply and the info Fearsclave, I didn't think that running would've been possible in snowshoes at all, so that was interesting to read.

I kind of had to mentally compare it to trying to run in the surf at the beach; when the water gets to a certain depth, and you can no longer kick your legs sideways out and around, running becomes impossible and you have to wade/swim.

Then I put diving flippers on my mental image guy

What do you think about the balance/trade-off cost of using snowshoes then, should it be all positive, or would a reduced ability to sprint be fair? (Depending on snow depth, if depth of snow becomes more of a thing).

[Fearsclave]

Thanks for the reply and the info Fearsclave, I didn't think that running would've been possible in snowshoes at all, so that was interesting to read.

I kind of had to mentally compare it to trying to run in the surf at the beach; when the water gets to a certain depth, and you can no longer kick your legs sideways out and around, running becomes impossible and you have to wade/swim.

Then I put diving flippers on my mental image guy

What do you think about the balance/trade-off cost of using snowshoes then, should it be all positive, or would a reduced ability to sprint be fair? (Depending on snow depth, if depth of snow becomes more of a thing).

If I could summarize in terms of game mechanics, the more snow, the slower and more fatiguing and calorie-expensive both walking and running without snowshoes become, with running becoming impossible once the snow is deep enough. With snowshoes, walking is slightly slower, fatiguing and more calorie-expensive regardless of snow depth, with running still possible but suffering more significant speed, fatigue and calorie penalties.

You can run in snowshoes, depending on size and snow conditions. It's a trade off; the smaller sport/recreational models give you less float, so in deep fluffy snow you will sink deeper, but if the snow is somewhat packed you can manage something approximating a run. Bigger models will give you better float and load-bearing ability, but at the cost of having larger things strapped to your feet .

Here's some vid of a snowshoe race. Note snow depth and size of shoes and people falling :

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Compare what this guy is wearing:

[bBvideo 560,340:261rzru1]

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Mind you, his snow conditions are pretty good. I have a pair of larger (36"x11") shoes that'll let me get through pretty much anything, even with a pack (and I'm not small: 6'2", 225).

[K63]

+1

[joki]

I like this idea. It could e.g. lower your walking speed to some degree, but make you lose less speed a lot when traversing hills. Also there would we potential to add icy areas, e.g. on the lake, where you could use the show shoes to travel over safely without slipping.

[toebar]

The thing is, snow on the ground is not realistically dealt with with in general in the game. Wolves and deer don't sink into the snow at all, so why would the character? (Both of these animals are not that well-suited to dealing with deep snow-- compared to caribou, who have large hooves, and lynx which have large feet to help them get around)

I'm not against snowshoes. On the contrary, they would be an item you would expect to find at a cabin in ML, no problem. Crafting makeshift snowshoes (evergreen boughs in a bundle),or slightly better snowshoes (maple + leather (strips) + time?) would offer compelling benefits.

But, I don't foresee the snow being overhauled in TLD, and I even don't know if a realistic deep snow mechanic has ever been implemented before...

I know it's not currently realistic, but I'm fine with the snow as is.... and the lack of snowshoes... or not .. lol

[K63]

I like this idea. It could e.g. lower your walking speed to some degree, but make you lose less speed a lot when traversing hills.

The effectiveness of snowshoes is dependent on the snow conditions. In the right conditions they greatly increase your speed. If the conditions are not right take them off and strap them on your pack.

[K63]

But, I don't foresee the snow being overhauled in TLD, and I even don't know if a realistic deep snow mechanic has ever been implemented before...

I know it's not currently realistic, but I'm fine with the snow as is.... and the lack of snowshoes... or not .. lol

I totally agree! I don't know how much work it would be to add snow depth into the game, but it would be ground breaking and add to the game. Without snow depth snowshoes would just be a bit of window dressing.