Newbie FAQ

[octavian]

An FAQ to be stickied across the forums to police the newbies with is long overdue :?

[Bill Tarling]

The studio is putting together one, but it will take a while.

[octavian]

The studio is putting together one, but it will take a while.

When I played TLD for the first time I found the camp office and said to myself, camp office, this is the obvious place to find a pamphlet left by the developers. Something the writer(s) spent a weekend on to make sure it doesn't feel like an FAQ. Analogous to what the mountain rescue guys give when you bump into them on your climb as they’re ferrying down a guy in sneakers with both feet broken and teeth missing. Dos and don’ts so you won’t have a bad day. There was no pamphlet. Maybe there should be a pamphlet. Curious to hear what players think about this one.

[Fluffy]

I'm sure many people here could help shorten the time it takes to put together a newbie FAQ. It's not like we aren't already answering these kinds of questions anyway.

Ugh, I'd hate an in-game version though. If there is one, it should be burnable :shock:

[octavian]

I'd hate an in-game version though. If there is one, it should be burnable :shock:

Sure, you could harvest it for one tinder. But I'm curious why exactly you would hate an in-game version. Tell me

[Fluffy]

Partly because it's patronising to assume players can't learn to survive without explicit in-game instructions, partly because of the risk of spoilers undermining early gameplay discovery, and partly because it breaks immersion. Also because if it was there, I know I'd read it anyway and then kick myself for doing so!

When I play games, I like to play them blind. So I don't watch YouTube videos or visit forums or look for maps until after I've had ample opportunity to find out for myself, through in-game experience. I'd only want to be offered FAQs if I was seriously stuck with something. Its about the learning curve, the stupid things that you do when you don't know any better, and the sense of discovery and humility when you realise what you've doing wrong.

I think this is particularly true for TLD. The premise of the game is that you've literally dropped out of the sky straight into the Canadian wilderness. Could you survive? It's supposed to be a survival challenge, not a tutorial.

Only afterwards would I look for the forums and game maps and see what other people's experiences were. Did I miss anything? Did others find better solutions (you can light two fires?!? Of course you can; why didn't I think of that?).

[Bill Tarling]

I'm curious why exactly you would hate an in-game version. Tell me

I agree, an in game type FAQ or Instruction pamphlet would kill a lot of what made the game a lot more old school no hand holding...

Stuff like - You need a campfire or lit stove to melt snow and then boil it to get safe drinking water... we get a lot of dead people here, so watch for crows flying above them... if you meet a wolf, use a flare to help scare it away... follow the tracks all the way past our local dam to head towards -----... this area is populated with survivalists who have their prepper bunkers in the hills in case of global emergencies, etc. etc. etc.

The game is about discovering how to do things with [for first play] no previous knowledge of the area... granted some things may seem obvious IRL, but again the game is about discovery. One of the best excitements in a lot of streams has been "OMG that actually worked. I didn't think it would, but look what I just discovered!"

They can go to forums or ask others if needed [and many players have been spoon fed in games, so they want immediate results and wins, and sadly haven't the patience any more to work their way through thinking out of the box or trying things differently.

They see a goal - something/somewhere they want, and the obvious path is the only route they want to get there as quickly and easily as possible. A wolf is in the way, well then "obviously the game is rigged putting it where I want to go"... Players no longer really need to consider other options other than "there's the flag/goal" because most games give them giant green arrows pointing the way - they don't usually need to analyze or consider other options other than getting from point A to B.

The Long Dark is a bit different for many modern players because it lets them play their way - and yes they're expected to fumble around a lot at first - but once they begin to figure out that they need to experiment to figure out what works for them, they begin to find approaches that work for their play style.

The final game release will likely have some minimal instructions [manual], but that won't likely be available until all the mechanics and systems are finalized... for now, it's rather important for there to be no real set instructions - that way they can see where players are getting working out unexpected solutions, and where they're getting bogged down or confused.

Yes players will still come to the forums with questions or complaining about issues because they haven't figured them out or because the game hid the answers for them rather than showing them where to go or what to do... the FAQ will answer some of those repetitive queries or comments...

However, many players will still skip any game FAQ (just as many often do in skipping searches within the forum). That's why there will often be a dozen separate threads asking the same question somebody else just posted even an hour earlier... Modern games have been designed to provide immediate answers and solutions so that the game could be completed faster - and with the internet, there's no real need to think things out when one quick Google search will bring you an immediate answer to a puzzle... It's like having the answers at the back of your math book in school - why figure out what's being taught when the answer is right there?

The Long Dark kinda goes back to old school gaming in that it provides the necessary pieces to manage each aspect within the game, but it requires experimenting, looking for alternatives other than the obvious, thinking, planning, and earning your way to the answers. That's one of the reasons why every little discovery or success feels like such an incredibly huge achievement - you've actually earned it [solved it or found the answer through effort].

Now, with all that being said - that's not to say bits and pieces won't be added as help guidelines in the final version [just as some of the books now say they will contain helpful info]. Rather, it means that (for now, during the alpha stage) dropping in random help pamphlets could be a little more counterproductive in trying to see how players travel the learning curve, what works, and what needs more clarification.

That way, if something is needed in the way of more help in the finished version, they'll have a better idea of what is most critical.

[octavian]

When I said,

Something the writer(s) spent a weekend on to make sure it doesn't feel like an FAQ.

I meant it literally. You could not tell it's an FAQ. As a ridiculous example, reduced from a pamphlet to one simple thing so that it’s clear – I hope - Quonset could have a no-weapons-allowed sign at the entrance. That's it. What does that tell you? Guns and people carrying them are common enough for them to put up a sign. Isn’t this the answer to the pervasive question, is a rifle guaranteed on every map?

This doesn't come in contradiction with

Partly because it's patronising to assume players can't learn to survive without explicit in-game instructions, partly because of the risk of spoilers undermining early gameplay discovery, and partly because it breaks immersion. Also because if it was there, I know I'd read it anyway and then kick myself for doing so!

or with

Stuff like - You need a campfire or lit stove to melt snow and then boil it to get safe drinking water... we get a lot of dead people here, so watch for crows flying above them... if you meet a wolf, use a flare to help scare it away... follow the tracks all the way past our local dam to head towards -----... this area is populated with survivalists who have their prepper bunkers in the hills in case of global emergencies, etc. etc. etc.

it's not what I meant at all by an FAQ. There are a billion ways for a writer to imply a rifle is guaranteed on every map. Is what I envisioned clear now? And if it is does it change anything in how you guys feel about it?

[Random Fires]

Played for three days now... Rifle can be very obscure. To the point, I thought it was a bug. Especially after twice hard booting the xbox and mysteriously a rifle would pop up on the map, sometimes 2.

---

I like the no hand holding. I'm stubborn and kept playing. An in game FAQ for controls and basic UI would and should be included. Several features thus far took some 30 hours or more to discover.

NOT game play. Let players discover what works in the wild and what does not. But UI features, how to manage inventory and items need some explaining.

A great game. Loving it, but some confusing things either need explanation via in game FAQ, or patched/changed.

Leave game play and secrets to the internet, the UI and item functions to a in-game faq. Perhaps in all those books I've been burning.

Back to the rifle for a sec. Noob Player discovers rifle on 2nd or third play. On fourth it moves, no biggie, finds it anyways...5-11 game plays, can not find the damn thing anywhere. Shuts game off after 6 days of survival without it, after death. The player thinks it should be in a couple of spots, isn't, rage quits or explores to death, or restarts for a better spawn. That's what will and has happened. No idea a rifle is "guaranteed" on first map without coming here... to the net. Not saying that's bad... Just, I dunno, it has positives and negatives.

Back to the FAQ for the board, I've played several games that had a "how to play" questions sub. Sometimes good information, sometimes hilarious responses... Please don't get rid of that sub.. even if people ask the same question over and over. If they do, then there's something missing in game to lead them to the answer.

That's a lot of type sorry.... nah not really.

[octavian]

An in game FAQ for controls and basic UI would and should be included. Several features thus far took some 30 hours or more to discover.

I dissagree, that should not be included. You can argue it's bad design but you shouldn't need an FAQ for controls and UI, that's just backwards to me.

NOT game play. Let players discover what works in the wild and what does not.

Nobody said the FAQ would touch on gameplay.

Leave game play and secrets to the internet, the UI and item functions to a in-game faq. Perhaps in all those books I've been burning.

That would be immensely weird, having the UI explained in the books.

Back to the FAQ for the board, I've played several games that had a "how to play" questions sub. Sometimes good information, sometimes hilarious responses... Please don't get rid of that sub.. even if people ask the same question over and over. If they do, then there's something missing in game to lead them to the answer.

Who said anything about getting rid of something :?:

[Fluffy]

Some written materials or signage could be a good thing, if (and it's a big if!) they were tastefully done and properly vetted first. I'm thinking more for context and subtle humour than direct usefulness though; and I wouldn't want them to be found all over the place like litter. The rest of the game is visually very beautiful, so I think they could pull this off if enough time was spent on it.

In the camp office, a welcome poster or leaflet with guidelines about respecting natural resources and staying safe would be ok (e.g. wolves are misunderstood and rarely attack humans, it's an offence to harm the wildlife, don't feed the bears, if you get lost stay where you are and wait for help etc.).

Did you have any particular examples in mind?

[Ther0]

Personally i'd like to see them as "notes\signs" randomly placed around the map (so you wouldn't know WHERE they are) but in proper place.. so.. as posters in the buildings or notes in drawers for example..

Then they could be something like : "Remember, to keep your equipment always in good shape, you could never know what will happen next"

or something like a "warning" but that could lead you to a good thought. For instance i struggle using snare traps (atm i have no idea how to catch anything, i will get it, i hope). MAYBE they works if you actually place them in zones where you see a decent number of rabbits. So the sign that leads you to that "thought" could be something like : "Attention : It's forbidden to place traps near wolf's dens and houses since it could harm other animals and humans!" (just a really rough example).

Then if you're a mindfull player you would notice that other signs that you've found around said "weird stuff" that eventually you understand that was hints about how you should do stuff in the correct way.

I don't know if i was clear enought, if i wasn't i will try to be more clear in the morning.

[octavian]

Did you have any particular examples in mind?

I am hesitant to say how I literally see it because I am so effortlessly misunderstood it’s becoming more and more worthless to give feedback and share ideas.

Nothing as definite as

Then they could be something like : "Remember, to keep your equipment always in good shape, you could never know what will happen next"

or

In the camp office, a welcome poster or leaflet with guidelines about respecting natural resources and staying safe would be ok (e.g. wolves are misunderstood and rarely attack humans, it's an offence to harm the wildlife, don't feed the bears, if you get lost stay where you are and wait for help etc.).

but I can make something up.

Suppose the camp office sold ammunition. Just for argument’s sake to make a point. They could have a leaflet for every visitor and one of the points would be not to argue with the fact that you can only buy a limited amount of ammunition per unit time. Say two boxes per week. Either you brought enough or that is all you can buy if you need more.

This approach is common in every properly remote place I have been, you cannot buy a carton of cigarettes and ten bottles of whiskey. Since helicopters or planes have to fly them in and supply flights are weeks apart you cannot deprive everyone else of commodities. Therefore, they unambiguously articulate you can buy a pack of cigarettes per day, no more.

In this ridiculous example with ammunition, it would make it clear that many people have weapons and use them, from hunting to shooting cans, enough for this problem to exist, which in turn means it is safe to assume they are common enough you will find one, guaranteed. In addition, it would make it clear that ammunition is scarce, although that is implicit and not something you would have to address. Nonetheless, it says this too.

This should be as much as an FAQ will tell you. It is better if you do not get the message and just go “that’s interesting” and you forget about it than if it told you outright. Maybe the “FAQ” part is what makes people confused. Fine, it is not an FAQ. I will come up with something else to call it if this is what is needed for clarity.

Another ridiculous but fun example for a writer would be to make it a book with short stories for children. This is common, I have done something similar too, mystify information for kids inside a story. For example something resembling Aesop’s fables, without the moral spelled out at the end.

“A Stag overpowered by heat came to a spring to drink. Seeing his own shadow reflected in the water, he greatly admired the size and variety of his horns, but felt angry with himself for having such slender and weak feet. While he was thus contemplating himself, a Lion appeared at the pool and crouched to spring upon him. The Stag immediately took to flight, and exerting his utmost speed, as long as the plain was smooth and open kept himself easily at a safe distance from the Lion. But entering a wood he became entangled by his horns, and the Lion quickly came up to him and caught him.”

Or the prepper could have a list of the thirty-six stratagems, without their interpretation. Excerpts:

Hide a knife behind a smile. Kill with a borrowed sword. These don't seem FAQy to me but I may be alone on this.

For a writer, especially one that knows the story, any approach similar to these or any of the billion others is trivial.

I don't know why everything has to spelled out like this and why a figurative reading of what's intended as literal or the other way around is so popular. It's disenchanting to see how assumptions are thrown about and how you default to a stereotype, but hey, no hard feelings, that's my problem.

Now I'm waiting for someone to say the camp office would never sell ammunition :roll:

[Ther0]

I'll be honest, maybe i'm a bit stupid, but i would never guess anything from those "FAQ".

Maybe if, like you i've traveled in remote areas and i knew that there are "really limited resources" MAYBE i would get the specific hint about ammunition from the camp office about the ammo. Otherwise i don't think that's "clear enough".

More so, that would also imply that finding a rifle (since everyone died pretty much randomly and a lot of them carried a rifle) is extremly common. Wich is not, in the game.. While i would expect that in pretty much any house in a remote area like that where you're likely to end up "isolated", you could find a gun for emergency hunt or fauna defence...

[octavian]

More so, that would also imply that finding a rifle (since everyone died pretty much randomly and a lot of them carried a rifle) is extremly common. Wich is not, in the game.. While i would expect that in pretty much any house in a remote area like that where you're likely to end up "isolated", you could find a gun for emergency hunt or fauna defence...

The again, people grabbed most in the Event. This is enforced by sometimes finding a dead guy with a rifle near him, right? But with them being so common, some are bound to be left behind. Consider this, they’re so common people have more than one. Took one, left one behind, mobility versus firepower. And that was an example for argument's sake. The thirty-six stratagems are closer to what I envisioned.

My reasoning is that it would be one of the many things you could do in your downtime. Taking shelter from a storm, instead of sleeping you could ask yourself what “hide a knife behind a smile” could mean. Maybe you’ll get the idea to cancel eating meat at the last possible moment so that you’re left with petite scraps of meat to use as decoys for wolves. That's the smile, the cartridge in the chamber is the knife. Maybe you don't get this. But if TLD is really about not holding any hands, this is all it has to do. You could get something very different from it, as long as you get something, I say it achieves its purpose of immersing you into the world and making you think.

It has nothing to do with being stupid, your brain hates abstraction, it will make sense out of anything if you let it, it can't cope with ambiguity. And imagine the forum talks about what such-and-such means