Little Things. 6th in a series of possible updates.

[SuperStriker16]

I have a bunch of ideas for things to add to the game and will make many separate posts so you guys can give feedback for each idea.
 

There are a lot of small things that could be changed in my opinion for the better with some things being common sense and others could be little cool additions.

First things first, footprints of all creatures and blood of all creatures, (including yours) should stay on the ground until it snows, when it does then the tracks can slowly be filled in over 10-30 minutes depending on the amount of snow falling, this just makes sense and would help wit retracing your steps or tracking down animals.

The second thing that would be handy is, say you find a Jerry can, with like 2 L of oil in it, and then another one with I.5 L of oil in it. It would be handy to merge them into just 1 Jerry can, or it could auto fill whenever you find a new container of oil in general, like whenever you cook a fish and harvest, it’s oil. 

The third thing that could be cool is to read those random books that you find. It would be pretty cool to be able to read those random books that you normally burn, you could read them for like an hour or two, then get like 5 points into random skills. Ex. 1 into rifle skill, 2 into sewing, 1 into cooking and 1 into field dressing. These would be random and you’d get more or less random points depending on how long you have to read it which would 1-8 hours. Another thing, has anyone noticed the size differences in the skill books, where the  archery book is basically a magazine compared to the other skill books, size should determine the weight from .1 to .8 kgs depending on the thickness and size of the book.

The fourth thing that would be good, making undergarments. rabbit skin socks, deerskin vest (undershirt that is slightly better than a thick wool sweater but not as good as other things like the fisherman sweater) and wolf fur leggings. (Slightly better then wool Longjohns).

The fifth thing is a new fire starter, a lighter. It could be refilled with oil or accelerant, fit .25 L of its fuel, have an 80% fire starting chance, and use up .05 L of fuel each attempt, due to it being so good, it should be limited to voyager and pilgrim, maybe stalker but definitely not interloper.

[UpUpAway95]

I'm only going to comment on the one - reading the random books.  I feel there are just too many of those random books in the world (even on Loper) to allow them all to be read for skill points.  It would essentially take no real effort to get to high level skills and their associated perks with that much available reading material in the world.  One would not even have to carry them from place to place, since there is usually one or more lying around in almost any place one might go to seek shelter and a night's sleep (unless playing outerloper).  Certainly 5 random points is far too generous for only one to two hours worth of reading.  As handy fire-starting material (since they are found near burning barrels and fireplaces all over the world and have an improved chance of the fire starting), they are already a useful item.

[SuperStriker16]

Maybe it could be 1 random point per hour of reading, that would be more balanced, I’m just trying to give a mid-late game useless item some use. Or maybe there would be a chance to not get any points, but that would frustrate players. My original idea was 2.5 points per hour and the books would be 2-8 hours long reading time so with an 8 hour book would give 20 points, but if each hour gave one point then it would be balanced. 

[UpUpAway95]

1 minute ago, SuperStriker16 said:

Maybe it could be 1 random point per hour of reading, that would be more balanced, I’m just trying to give a mid-late game useless item some use. Or maybe there would be a chance to not get any points, but that would frustrate players. My original idea was 2.5 points per hour and the books would be 2-8 hours long reading time so with an 8 hour book would give 20 points, but if each hour gave one point then it would be balanced. 

Still not enough of a reduction to my taste... I mean there are probably 15-30 books in the Carter Hydro Dam alone.  I know there's at least 10 in the Maintenance Shed & Hunting Lodge.  That's still a lot of skill points you're making available for little effort.  By late game, many players have max'd out the skills they use anyways, so by the time the books are "useless" for their increasing the chance of a fire starting, they are probably "useless" for adding needed skill points as well.  If HL wants to increase the available reading material in the game, they could just decide to change some of those "burn only" books to actual skill books instead.

[SuperStriker16]

No, I said useless in the mid-late game when your fire starting skill is already high enough to almost guarantee a fire with Matches and a stick, I mean, there’s literally a perk that makes books redundant and their .5 kilos a piece so thinking you would carry those 15-30 books anyway doesn’t make sense, plus the time invested in each one is a lot, making reading them restricted to being a mid late game only activity when your not scavenging supplies and food to survive, but a good thing to do, to get rid of cabin fever in your snow shelter while you have nothing to do.

[Leeanda]

Pre update the blood trails and splatter had a babit of disappearing very quickly but it seems it lasts a lot longer now.  But a bit of work on the tracking would be nice.. and blizzards should cover up any trace but I'm not sure how easy that would be to implement. I'm definitely no tech genius. 

A lot of people have mentioned the Jerry cans and being able to add to them, so yes to that too.

One of my first ever posts on the wish list was for books to read,not skill  books but  just something that would pass the time and could be read in increments.  I'd still like that, especially after being stuck inside pv  farmhouse during multiple blizzards!😁

Edited April 1, 2023 by Leeanda

[UpUpAway95]

32 minutes ago, SuperStriker16 said:

No, I said useless in the mid-late game when your fire starting skill is already high enough to almost guarantee a fire with Matches and a stick, I mean, there’s literally a perk that makes books redundant and their .5 kilos a piece so thinking you would carry those 15-30 books anyway doesn’t make sense, plus the time invested in each one is a lot, making reading them restricted to being a mid late game only activity when your not scavenging supplies and food to survive, but a good thing to do, to get rid of cabin fever in your snow shelter while you have nothing to do.

You don't have to carry them to use them to start fires since many of them are found in areas right near place you start fires.  That's what also makes them too convenient for reading... too easy to get those skill points and you're proposal opens up a lot of potential, easy skill points... easier than finding the skill books and carrying them around for a small increase in only the skills they are assigned.  Most loper players burn the skill books as it is and don't bother reading them.  I see it as something that could be easily exploited - Players on pilgrim (for example) could  sit inside for days at, say, Carter dam (where there is also ample water and food available, along with 15-30 books), and artificially boost their skills before heading out anywhere early game.

[SuperStriker16]

Players on pilgrim wouldn’t have a problem getting large amounts of skill points early anyway and pilgrim is so easy that it wouldn’t matter in the end, and most people only play pilgrim only play to get a feel for the game and maps, so the long term doesn’t matter. If you need a book to start a fire do you really think they have the 2-8 hours needed to read a book before even starting it? Plus these books give the points randomly anyway, unlike a skill book that focuses on one skill so you only would get 2-8 points in random skills that you don’t choose for hours of sacrificed time. A fair trade when you don’t have any more skill books to read I’d say, because at that point, you wouldn’t have a point for these 15-30 books that you keep bringing up. Thank you Leeanda for looking at other things than just a minor issue. It’s just a proposal of an idea, If it’s too overpowered and hinterland considers it, they would make it more balanced to the way they like it before adding the ability to read random books anyway. 

[UpUpAway95]

26 minutes ago, SuperStriker16 said:

Players on pilgrim wouldn’t have a problem getting large amounts of skill points early anyway and pilgrim is so easy that it wouldn’t matter in the end, and most people only play pilgrim only play to get a feel for the game and maps, so the long term doesn’t matter. If you need a book to start a fire do you really think they have the 2-8 hours needed to read a book before even starting it? Plus these books give the points randomly anyway, unlike a skill book that focuses on one skill so you only would get 2-8 points in random skills that you don’t choose for hours of sacrificed time. A fair trade when you don’t have any more skill books to read I’d say, because at that point, you wouldn’t have a point for these 15-30 books that you keep bringing up. Thank you Leeanda for looking at other things than just a minor issue. It’s just a proposal of an idea, If it’s too overpowered and hinterland considers it, they would make it more balanced to the way they like it before adding the ability to read random books anyway. 

Why does that matter that Pilgrim players have it easy anyways?  An exploit is an exploit... it discourages the player from going out and actually playing the game - easy or no.  Take let's put an interloper player in my example - I just shot the moose outside Carter, there's ample wood inside the dam, I can set up my fire in the dam yard so as to avoid cabin fever and read my little heart out for days gaining skills.  Note:  skill books also require at least 5 hours (correction 4 hours) of reading before you get ANY points at all (5 to 10 points).  Your proposal offers 2 points for just a 1-hour quick read of a book that is probably found right beside your fire almost everywhere in the world anyways...  IMO, too easy, even on Loper.

Oh, and how many books do you think might be in Milton? or in the PV Farmhouse or at Thomson's Crossing?

Edited April 1, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[SuperStriker16]

15 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Your proposal offers 2 points for just a 1-hour quick read of a book

 

17 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Take let's put an interloper player in my example - I just shot the moose outside Carter, there's ample wood inside the dam, I can set up my fire in the dam yard so as to avoid cabin fever and read my little heart out for days gaining skills

You got it wrong, 1skill point in a random skill per hour, that is gained once the book is read. 2h book = 2 random points into random skill.

odds are you aren’t going to have days and days as you say. Especially in interloper when you need to constantly hunt and scavenge to survive, I’m assuming the wood in the dam that your talking about are pallets that take 1-2 1/2 hours to break down each, if if your able to kill a moose with just a bow, I’d also assume that most of your skills are almost or are at level 3 already, when books don’t work anymore. So at that point you’ll be burning those books anyways.

[UpUpAway95]

49 minutes ago, SuperStriker16 said:

 

You got it wrong, 1skill point in a random skill per hour, that is gained once the book is read. 2h book = 2 random points into random skill.

odds are you aren’t going to have days and days as you say. Especially in interloper when you need to constantly hunt and scavenge to survive, I’m assuming the wood in the dam that your talking about are pallets that take 1-2 1/2 hours to break down each, if if your able to kill a moose with just a bow, I’d also assume that most of your skills are almost or are at level 3 already, when books don’t work anymore. So at that point you’ll be burning those books anyways.

How are you going to allow the game to determine when the player has completely read that "random" book (that is coded the same as many other such random books in the game?  You are now suggesting that each one has to be coded separately (like a skill book already is) so that the game can keep track of how many hours in each book have been read.  Why not, then, just convert some of those random books to actual skill books (and keep some control over how many skill points are available in the game overall)?

Also, I said I just shot a moose - which gives me lots of food for days and I need to wait for the hide to cure anyways.  In a place like Carter, which I said can be done, even on Loper.

Edited April 1, 2023 by UpUpAway95

[SuperStriker16]

1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Note:  skill books also require at least 5 hours (correction 4 hours) of reading before you get ANY points at all (5 to 10 points).

 

1 hour ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Oh, and how many books do you think might be in Milton? or in the PV Farmhouse or at Thomson's Crossing?

Which is significantly more than what you’d get from a random book, plus you’d know what skills your getting with a specific skill book.

Let’s say 80 for ease of calculation and because it’s a ridiculously large amount. Those would require 15 days of straight reading (360 hours). If every point was spread evenly to each skill, you would gain 40 points into each skill, getting you almost up to level 3 in all skills, which is a lot but rng is rng which is bad for interlopers that just wasted a third of those skill points into skills that don’t matter in interloper, (rifle, revolver, and gunsmithing) and that also is assuming you didn’t read any duds, (25% of books don’t give skill). Fifteen days of straight studying day and night is way too long for any loper player to read, let’s say this is your daily schedule (which is pretty forgiving for loper) 

9 pm - 9 am sleep or passing time.

9 am - 10 am cooking the morning’s meat, venison, ( about 1800 kcal )

10 am - 1 pm going out hunting for the next day’s meal, or could be replaced with looking for gear.

1 pm - 3 pm reading, for whatever reason (let’s say you were trapped In because of bad weather)

3 pm - 5 pm chopping pallets for wood.

5 pm - 7 pm making things/repairing things

7 pm - 8 pm boiling water (can’t live off of the dam’s toilet water forever)

8 pm - 9 pm cooking dinner, (also 1800 kcal of venison)

sleep, rinse, repeat 

this already relaxed schedule  gives 2 hours of time to read, it would take 180 days to read all of those books. At that point your skills I’d hope are above level 3, you’d already be in field dressing, bow, cooking, sewing, fire starting, not ice fishing but ain’t no one got time for that. 
this also would require you to be at each location until you’ve read all of those books, meaning you would be moving your base multiple times just to read these books. Checkmate upupaway 95

[SuperStriker16]

6 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

How are you going to allow the game to determine when the player has completely read that "random" book (that is coded the same as many other such random books in the game?  You are now suggesting that each one has to be coded separately (like a skill book already is)

Yes, each one would have its own time like a skill book, if it’s nessesary, then half the amount of books in the world, like I said, if hinterland were to implement this, they would balance it to their liking.

[SuperStriker16]

10 minutes ago, UpUpAway95 said:

Why not, then, just convert some of those random books to actual skill books (and keep some control over how many skill points are available in the game overall)?

If they want to they could do that, I’m not hinterland though.

[UpUpAway95]

Just now, SuperStriker16 said:

 

Which is significantly more than what you’d get from a random book, plus you’d know what skills your getting with a specific skill book.

Let’s say 80 for ease of calculation and because it’s a ridiculously large amount. Those would require 15 days of straight reading (360 hours). If every point was spread evenly to each skill, you would gain 40 points into each skill, getting you almost up to level 3 in all skills, which is a lot but rng is rng which is bad for interlopers that just wasted a third of those skill points into skills that don’t matter in interloper, (rifle, revolver, and gunsmithing) and that also is assuming you didn’t read any duds, (25% of books don’t give skill). Fifteen days of straight studying day and night is way too long for any loper player to read, let’s say this is your daily schedule (which is pretty forgiving for loper) 

9 pm - 9 am sleep or passing time.

9 am - 10 am cooking the morning’s meat, venison, ( about 1800 kcal )

10 am - 1 pm going out hunting for the next day’s meal, or could be replaced with looking for gear.

1 pm - 3 pm reading, for whatever reason (let’s say you were trapped In because of bad weather)

3 pm - 5 pm chopping pallets for wood.

5 pm - 7 pm making things/repairing things

7 pm - 8 pm boiling water (can’t live off of the dam’s toilet water forever)

8 pm - 9 pm cooking dinner, (also 1800 kcal of venison)

sleep, rinse, repeat 

this already relaxed schedule  gives 2 hours of time to read, it would take 180 days to read all of those books. At that point your skills I’d hope are above level 3, you’d already be in field dressing, bow, cooking, sewing, fire starting, not ice fishing but ain’t no one got time for that. 
this also would require you to be at each location until you’ve read all of those books, meaning you would be moving your base multiple times just to read these books. Checkmate upupaway 95

Again - nothing prevents players from taking days and days to read books to artificially level up.  You're making the points available and when you do that, someone will find a way to exploit it - be it a Pilgrim or an Interloper.  The logistics are just a little more difficult on Loper (in that you have to provide a big source of food and water near where the books are foun and avoid cabin fever); but it can be done... and some players would likely do it rather than play the game... as is they do in a million other games out there (e.g. building shelves in Survival Mode in Fallout 4 to leave Sanctuary at Level 20).  Some players would shoot a moose near a significant source of books and "camp" and read for as long as they could... and then walk over to the next heavy book site.  Shoot some food, rinse and repeat.  No moving of the main base would be required.

It's my opinion... I've given it.  'nough said.

[SuperStriker16]

We could go with that, I guess eliminate hunting from the equation, then you have 4-5 hours to read. Wait a minute, if your killing moose with a bow, you must have skills, definitely in archery at least, but that would require arrowheads, which would require you to forge, which would require you to have a heavy hammer and time to prepare as well as a bow which requires a knife which requires a forge trip, which requires a heavy hammer, and so on. You get my point, killing a moose and skinning it and hauling all the meat All the way to a source of books Is logistically straining and would require skills. I just don’t think it would be worth it, all this prep to read 20 books over 30-40 days. Books only work up to level 3 which you’ll already have by this time. Unless you’re trying to increase gunsmithing or ice fishing in interloper, it wouldn’t be worth it. It would be better done intermittently whenever you have extra time on your hands. 

[Glacia]

As said on this post, if the books give skill points (5 or whatever number), this could be incredible overpowered on all game modes. And if it's random like 1/5 books give something, most players are gonna ignore them anyways.

I think several cool ideas can be applied to books to make them more than just a firestarting item. For a example, in project zomboid you can get depressed or bored if you stay a lot inside (Something like cabin fever). If you read books or magazines you can cure them.

Reading a book (once per book) can be an interesting choice to remove or reduce cabin fever risk. So keeping a few books in case of emergeny can be reasonable.

I like your idea anyways, but i think it should be better if the points are a random ocurrence than a permanent mechanic. Like reading a random book and after X hours the book is fully readed, a message box appears and say "You find a bit of knowledge on this book, your cooking skill have gained 3 points", with 15% chance and random skill, for a example.

[SuperStriker16]

That works too, I didn’t think about cabin fever, but I like that.