four underlying issues, a new one and a mild annoyance

[RegentRelic]

In no particular order ...

1. Starvation being a non-issue

Once you discover this "exploit" food is only as much of an issue as you make it. Hinterland has started to address the issue with the well-fed bonus, but that is primarily a way to carry more gear on lower difficulties. What we need is some real longer-term consequences for starving. Increasing the amount of damage that starvation deal is a terrible solution. Not only is it generally inelegant, but hits players who are just bad and starving because they can't find food just as much as the players who never intend on finding food. The first group is hit hard enough by not having well-feed and isn't the issue. The issue is interloper being reduced down to match finding the video game(sarcastically). To be clear I don't think starvation tactics should be removed. Just re-balanced.

 

        You could increase your fatigue drain by the amount of time you've spent starving recently. This would be realistic and mainly punish players who use starvation intentionally. It would make hibernation easier though. You could reduce your max fatigue the same way for a similar effect. The fact you can sleep as much as you want when your max fatigue is down makes intestinal parasites a desirable illness for people with no fear, so that might actually buff starvation. One thing I haven't seen suggested yet is to create a malnutrition affliction that is some combination of all of the above, that gets worse the more often you stave. In addition, it could have similar effect as insomnia (if it did anything.) waking you up every few hours, limiting your healing. The more often you starve the less effective sleep gets at healing. This doesn't hurt new players, but does make the game seem deeper and might get them thinking about why it's there. It doesn't make starvation useless, but makes it a tool in the toolbox rather than being the mechanic. It also plays into the long form nature of The Long Dark that is the reason I love the game.

2. Self closing doors

     My P.C and Xbox can handle the interiors being fully load. Can't there at least be an option to disable them with a warning that it might be demanding on processing power. Ideally the game would detect how many resources are available and decide to close the door or not. It's creepy, annoying and weirder when older buildings don't have automatically closing doors. I'm sure there's some super specific technical reason behind the self-closing doors, but I can't think of a reason some structures have them but, others don't.

3. Too much ammo

         Ever since the update I have found more ammo than before. Maybe I've just been lucky, but making such large amounts of ammo makes wildlife less of an issue and causes you to ignore the other, more interesting, options for handling wolves. It also makes you get into the late game faster (which is bad, because the late game is as exciting as sitting on the porch (Believe me I'm a sitting on the porch enthusiast but, it's just better in real life.)) and makes the jump from stalker to interloper much harder for new players. Which might be intentional.

4. Map feeling too big.  Let me explain

       I've introduced a handful of people to The Long Dark and have discussed the new player experience with many people both on these here forms and in person and there are a few things that keep players from getting into the game.

Not liking Wintermute. some people hear the Intro music expect a great story or see the games description and expect a good Jack London. Instead, they get Wintermute.

Not choosing the right difficulty. Some people play to hard of a difficulty and think the game is too hard. Some people play to low of a difficulty and think it's too easy.

No tutorial. Some players have a hard time figuring the menus and such. the actual game play is intuitive, but the menu and short cuts can be extremely obtuse. The solution is to play Wintermute, but then they run into the first problem. The game should have a pop on the first run that tells you have to open the inventory. Nothing less, little more.

 

       Those issues don't have solutions. or at least not very complete ones. There are three problems though that Hinterland already had the solution to before they even had the problem.

Choosing the wrong region. Some players don't read the little blurb about each region before they start. Which causes them to repeatedly spawn in beginner hostile parts of the map and thinking eh game is too difficult. Making it so, on your fist few runs the continue button doesn't show up for a few seconds would help. I will talk about a much better solution in a minute though.

Being intimidated by the map size. Especially for mastery players that map screen brings up the question. Do I really want to spend my time on this game? Do I really want to learn all this? The effect gets worse after dying afew times, often in rapid succession. After a few runs you get an idea how big each region and how slow travel is, and the map screen only seems bigger. I'm sure a significant number of players quit before finding out how the map and key locations fit together.

No goals. To examine who plays The Long Dark I'm going use Bartel's taxonomy even though he states very clearly in his book that it's not supposed to be used outside of MMO's. Killers don't play the game. There's no one to beat. The game has the interacting part for socializers fueled by the constant updates, but is inherently un-social. That leaves Achievers and Explores. Achievers really love the games harder achievements and challenges, but don't care that much about the "high score" chasing that is your main goal (at least at first). Meaning that achievers do have things to do but, aren't motivated early enough by the main game mode. The game is really meant for Explores which is why the reasons Achievers stay is because they become Explorers to complete their goals. Adding more hard challenges and Wintermute has helped alleviate the problem but, survival only has three achievements' that that cause you to explore, and Faithful Cartographer is way too big of a task for new players (I'm sure somebody is going to say something like " I set out to get Faithful Cartographer as soon as I got the game and I loved it." to which I say, the fact that you're on these forms shows your amongst the most hardcore players and don't represent the average players experience.) Plus, achievements are extrinsic rewards and don't work for players who are intrinsically motivated. Like me. This whole a paragraph isn't a small issue though.

 

        Which is why the hiding regions until they have been visited was Brillant. It allowed hinterland to control how people are introduced to Survival Mode. It kept the map from being over whelming and said "hey, there's more out there and it's all connected so, go see what you can see." and then punches you in the gut with the survival mechanics. There could be achievement for finding your first new region, which would condition the player to think that this is what they are supposed to do and leads straight to the other achievements. It would make the world seem like a vast wilderness without seeming like you should already have some knowledge of each region and prevents choice paralyses. If you die after unlocking a new region you naturally want to try starting that in that region and playing with that cool new unlock. The game already does a good job obscuring it's borders, but imagine entering a random cave and coming out in a whole new region. It makes the map overbearing closer to the way that the wilderlands are rather than overbearing in the way this wall of text is. Most importantly if player think find each region is the goal, then it will help sell more DLC regions.

       Of course, no solution is perfect. Players might get frustrated if they can't find a new region after a while. To help that, you could have an outline of the regions connected to the regions you've already discovered appear on the map, so players are never clueless and have hint's (like the ones that already in the game.) to help guide them along.

It might frustrate people who were really excited to see the new region. I think that this isn't a very big issue in the long run. Considering each new region is less and less significant and that anyone who feels like they need a new region is already a big fan of the game as a whole.

Players might think the game is over once they have found every region. That might take less time, but they will have had more fun than waiting at mystery lake for 500 days. Which will won't want them to go back to their favorite places and play the game more. It will also drive people towards the DLC regions as away to continue the best part of the game. There is no reason to buy TFTFT if you're just trying to survive.

Over centralizing around Myster Lake. The games need to survive naturally pushes people towards exploring. Again, it gives Hinterland at least some idea of how experienced player will be when they Discover each region.

 

5. Boring Late-game. I'm defining the mid-game as when you have everything you ""need to survive (Hatchet, knife, bedroll, etc) and the Late-game as when you have everything you want. The solution is to make the line between the mid and late game blurrier with more things to get. And dread.

Hinterland is trying to extend the mid-game with unique items and base customization which definitely is at least half of the solution. At least meaning, if not more. However, I haven't heard hinterland mention the other side of the coin. Things that happen later in the in the game you need to be preparing for. The Long Dark was never meant has a game that you lived forever. Which why wildlife getting rarer and the world getting colder are mechanics. Only problem is that both of these are barely noticeable. I wish the game really hit you after a few weeks. Semi permeant things like the over hunting mechanic getting doubled, tripled, turned up to eleven. A whiteout blizzard that came between day ninety and one hundred that lasted for a month. Wolves going on the hunt like in Silent Hunter. Radioactive snow causes cancer if you drink water made from it, I don't know. Just something to prepare for, some late game challenge temporary or Permanente to overcome and push instead of letting you settle to early. Ala the cold in The Flame in The Flood or first year's seasons in Don't Starve.

Some players might not like being timed. Again, some of these are in the game they just aren't noticeable. The more world event style ones could be temporary, and you just have to be ready to wait them out and then you can get back to your exploring. If all else fails, this is a good thing to be a custom option.

It would blind side new players. When me and my cousin first played The Long Dark the big blizzards after a certain point was something we thought was already in the game only to be disappointed when the weather barely changed. What I am saying is that the Long Dark isn't afraid to throw a wrench at face and presents itself in a way that tells you to expect the worst. What's the tag line again? oh yay, "Only you, the cold, and all the threats Mother Nature can muster."

6. Predictable wildlife. Spawns, movements, interactions, everything. Once you have learned how to get through an area safely you get through it safely almost every time. it discourages experimentation and makes situations that should be intense entirely mundane. Hinterland has mentioned that they are working on a "Wildlife refresh". Which I hope does more than just change the spawns. I hope gives wolves larger and more varied patrol routes and make walking away at a brisk pace less of effective. If not the update will relieve the symptoms, but isn't a cure.

 

I know hinterland is aware of these problems and more. As well has already thought of my solutions. I just wanted to give my thoughts on some of the older and stranger issues. As well as address the issues in some of the proposed fixes. Industry wisdom says that players are great at knowing how they feal, but terrible at knowing why they feel this way; and even worse at coming up with solutions. I can't help myself from think I have the right ideas though. There are parts of these problems I missed, solutions I miss, and problems with my solutions I missed. So, do tell O' men of great bear what where I am mistaken.

Edited December 13, 2022 by RegentRelic

[Grignard_TN]

Why not have bonuses for keeping the other needs out of the red in addition to hunger? It seems well fed was introduced just to balance out a specific tactic then left behind. I think there is a lot of potential there. Can there be some sort of advantage to staying well hydrated, well rested, or comfortably warm?

[RegentRelic]

Maybe a well-rested bonus for staying above half fatigue for a day or two, that increases your max fatigue as a way to make long trips easier, but I'm not sure that would be a good thing. I can't think of any okayish ideas for what keeping the two you mention high would do. I do think more could be done with the hypothermia system but there is nothing wrong with the current system.