[SCENARIO] Machete/Knife vs. Axe/Hatchet

[Dark]

A around 10 inch / 25 cm full tang bowie knife and with a thickness of around 1/4 inch. Made at best from a not too hard steel or more a all rounder steel so it can be sharpened with just a rock, which is stainless like the 420 or 440 A or C, with a hardness of around 56-58. Currently there are better steels like the D2 which can be hardened to around 60 HRC, but i have no experience with them. Not stainless steels are better, but require more care, which cannot be always guaranteed.

Five reasons against an hatchet or an axe: Too Heavy, too cumbersome, too bad in a defence situation and not versatile enough and not useful for especially fine mechanical work. If you want to build a block house or chop wood it is good, else no. Many warriors prefered axes in past times even over the sword, but they fought against opponents with shields and armor. This kind of opponents do not exist in modern times. Wolves don't attack humans, therefore a defence against wolfs is not so necessary. Against bears or boars an axe will be not a good defence weapon, but also a knife is not a good weapon.

With a good knife, you can fish, gut fish, choop wood, cut hide or any cloth material, make equipment like fishing rods, fishhooks, bows, needles and etc ...etc. Even for firemaking a knife is better than an axe. And a provisory shelter can be made with both things.

That was my 2 Cents on this topic.

[Fearsclave]

Great topic Jetro.

A long time ago, I went away from using my USAF issued survival knife. It's a heavy knife that can do just about anything, but none of it particularly efficiently.

Now I carry a small extremely light knife for fine tasks (mora), and a hatchet/forest axe for larger tasks (Grandfors Bruks).

It really depends on what your intended uses are.

First, in the snowy north, throw out the machete. Machete's are excellent for making your way through dense foliage that's less than 2 inches (2cm) in diameter. Vines, moss, roots, ETC. Not what you find in the frozen north.

Thought it might have some merit as a weapon.

The hatchet/axe would be essential if you're building shelter or processing large amounts of firewood. They are somewhat unwieldy as a weapon, and extremely dangerous if you miss your target, and find the bit moving towards you.

I think the knife would be my first choice. It's fast and efficient as a weapon, delivering multiple cuts per second. I've cut down trees around 4" (10 cm) in diameter, though it's a lot of work.

You can also make feather sticks from it, which are probably the best winter kindling you can get.

It's all personal style and skill. I personally would not be caught dead in the wilderness with a knife. (Actually if I was caught dead in the wilderness, it's probably because I didn't have a knife :-) )

Can't argue with any of this. Especially agreed on machetes; they're great on undergrowth, not trees.

I'd add that having experimented with a kukri for bushcraft, I've relegated it to splitting kindling for the fireplace.

For firewood gathering, IMHO, a Sierra saw is brilliant. Light, portable, energy-efficient, and can be carried in a large pocket. Much easier than flailing away with a hatchet or large knife. Will do great on any size tree you'd reasonably want to fell for camp firewood. Couple it with something for splitting (I use a Becker bowie, since it's a bit more versatile than an axe; I use it for digging cat holes and general cutting as well) and a smaller knife of some sort, and you're laughing.

[Fearsclave]

But to answer the OP, if I were worried about fighting wolves, I'd go for a medium axe, on thegrounds that this is the real world, not a dojo. When the balloon goes up and Fluffy is closing in for the kill, your heart rate is going to go through the roof and the adrenaline rush is going to be so intense that you're probably going to be "flailing around like the kid at the back of the short bus", as one of my shooting instructors said. You're not going to be fighting intelligently; you're going to be operating in monkey mode, and an axe works well in those circumstances; big sharp wedge on the end if a stick to give it some mechanical advantage. Swing hard and connect, and you will mess Fluffy up.

[robdoar]

For firewood gathering, IMHO, a Sierra saw is brilliant. Light, portable, energy-efficient, and can be carried in a large pocket. Much easier than flailing away with a hatchet or large knife.

You are very correct, they are fantastic, but I have broken 2 of them on frozen logs. They aren't without their drawbacks.

big sharp wedge on the end if a stick to give it some mechanical advantage. Swing hard and connect, and you will mess Fluffy up.

But MISS fluffy, and mess yourself up.

One of the most dangerous accidents in my classes is axe injuries.

[Fearsclave]

For firewood gathering, IMHO, a Sierra saw is brilliant. Light, portable, energy-efficient, and can be carried in a large pocket. Much easier than flailing away with a hatchet or large knife.

You are very correct, they are fantastic, but I have broken 2 of them on frozen logs. They aren't without their drawbacks.

big sharp wedge on the end if a stick to give it some mechanical advantage. Swing hard and connect, and you will mess Fluffy up.

But MISS fluffy, and mess yourself up.

One of the most dangerous accidents in my classes is axe injuries.

Both valid points; I've yet to break my saw, and it's about 12 years old. The tip is a little bent, so it binds sometimes, but overall that hasn't been annoying enough to justify replacing it. I'm a big enough fan of the saws that I picked up a Leatherman and SAK with saw blades as well.

And yes, you can mess yourself up pretty badly with an axe. Probably an acceptable risk in Fluffy-getting-frisky scenarios.

[JuX]

Knife is by far superior choice for survival, specially in this hypothetical scenario.

A. If you haven't really eaten well in days, then you do not have the strength to be swinging the axe.

B. Even if you had the energy to swing the axe around, very unlikely to be beating wolfs better then a knife.

C. Hardware store implies there is civilization around, so no lack of firewood for breaking down

furniture or finding shelter, so axe not so critical tool (Unless hardware store owner was an idiot to setup

shop way in the wilderness away from all customers).

D. Knife better for skinning animals

E. Chopping down trees consumes lot of energy you can't be afford to spend while starving and weak.

F. Making snow shelter, rather then cutting down trees.

i could go on, but thats enough...

[robdoar]

There is no "perfect tool"

The tool that's best for you in a particular scenario depends on an enormous number of variables.

That being said, without a knife, you're dead. :-)

[Dark]

There is no "perfect tool"

That depends on the definition of "perfect".

If you think that a 'perfect tool' is a tool that can do everything better then any other tool, then you are right.

If you think that a 'perfect tool' is a tool that can be used for every task, then you are right.

But if you think, that there is a better and more dependable survival tool for nearly every earth environment besides the poles, than a good durable knife, then i think that you are wrong.

[hunglasx]

knife is better I think. but it's depends on what kind of knife it is.

[Boreal]

The perfect tool is the brain!

What happens when you lose your knife?

For all basic survival purposes, a good flintknapper can make knives, skinners, wedges, hand axes, axes, projectile points.

People in Tierra del Fuego survived 6,000+ years using lithic tools and bone tools. Of course, their food supply was a major plus for survival in a harsh environment but their technology was so well thought out that it functioned perfectly in their environment.

Knives aren't really sustainable unless your a blacksmith... I love knives but when it comes down to survival...you WILL have to depend on your environment at some point. Flintknapping goes a long way.

[hunglasx]

it's a question between axe and knife. otherwise, the answer is not brain too. because it's not about brain, survival items or etc. it's about the adaptation of environment. but as I said, question isn't this.

"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."

- Charles Darwin

[Boreal]

it's a question between axe and knife. otherwise, the answer is not brain too. because it's not about brain, survival items or etc. it's about the adaptation of environment. but as I said, question isn't this.

"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."

- Charles Darwin

Darwin also thought the Fuegians were primitive, under developed people. He was wrong about many things like this. Strength, intelligence, knowledge, etc all play a role. That quote is archaic and is a good start but barely scratches the complexity of survival.

You may make your choice on an axe or knife because you will think about what you will need later and what is most important. A true survivor will pick whichever and then create the missing tools later.

In the end, it does not really matter what you pick...unless you are not adaptable to change.

[hunglasx]

that's exactly what I thought

[Dark]

If we are talking about a tool then we mean something that is artificial, as in made by a human.

And even Fuegians had certainly something that we could consider a knife, no matter if it was made from bone or stone. To pull off and cut pelts, for making clothing and tents. There are cultures that have abandoned the use of an axe (no trees), but no culture has ever abandoned the use of a knife.

With a knife alone you will not survive, if you lack the knowledge of the environment and you have no cunning in survival tasks. A knife as a tool lets you survive better, and lets you conserve many calories and helps you with tasks that you would not be able to do without a knife.

[Dannyrulx]

Going back to the subject in hand. It really all depends. If it was a long-blade serrated knife (bowie) or a hunting knife, definitely knife. Hopefully I would come back later to clear the place out with a gun.