Sherri

Sorry to revive this... but as we approach the TFTFT update and the predicted save game losses.... I also tried to look into exporting the Journal of my largest save. It would be really nice if - at minimum - the game would enable copy/paste (highlight journal txt, hit Ctrl+C) so I could at least copy it into a text document. This might be an easier stop-gap before a full Export feature is built.

The funny thing is - literally every game I'm enjoying lately - TLD, Valheim, Raft, Core Keeper, No Man's Sky..... literally all of them have significant percents of the players who are frothing mad about timelines & delays. 😆 It's almost like players never learn.

All timelines are speculative. Software & game dev has a lot of unpredictability that you can't foresee.

The dev who does the QA signoff is sick for a week. I spent 2 days debugging an error that was a single wrong character in 1 line of code. Jane's computer hard drive failed. John's artwork didn't do well in focus groups so back to the drawing board. The music creator got Covid for two weeks. Someone lost a week of productivity to train the intern. The project manager's parent was in hospital. The engine released an update so we need 2 weeks to migrate & retest everything. On & on & on. 😭🙃

22 minutes ago, turtle777 said:

Hinterland's standards, ambitions and creative vision have grown so much the the original timeline and scope for Wintermute could not be kept. And they didn't want to compromise.

Along the way, the financials didn't pan out - you just can't finance both Survival Mode and Wintermute on charging as little as they did for the base game.

 

Ralph has said in the past that finances have not been a concern or hurdle.

So I'd guess more the former.

I think they made a way better game than originally planned, estimating software timelines are HARD, plus they don't do crunch & a pandemic happened - while they tried to care for staff & be mindful of everyone's mental health. Plus this is their first big game as a studio. 

The timeline for Wintermute is not a surprise or a problem IMHO. I get that people get really attached to early, speculative timelines... but this is pretty normal given how the game has really grown from original plans.

The thing I'm most excited about is the narrative objectives in the expansion. I love having goals & helping people in Wintermute!

To those who are worried that new equipment & loot tables will ruin the lonely, hopeless, barely-surviving feel of the game: has Hinterland not earned our trust by now, that they have the atmosphere & theme well in hand? I doubt they will upend the core feel of their carefully crafted masterpiece 

This is the single greatest update I have ever read for a game.

New things to be excited about!

Compassion for the players of all budgets.

Insight into the decisions, reasons for the directions the game is taking, explanations behind the announcements.

Approximate timelines.

Apologies & explanations for the save incompatibility (understandable).

Teaser video & image.

Wishlistable right now.

Reasonable pricing structure.

Oooo goodness this is a perfect, exciting & caring update.

Thanks Hinterland - this is very validating to this TLD fan. 💙❄️

I personally have a different take on these puzzles.

Many people also complained about the carrying of plane crash survivors and the timberwolf attacks in episode 3. And other puzzle type elements like the fuses in the mine, etc.

But for me, I play wintermute similar to survival mode. I do my own thing, explore the region in depth, stockpile things & really stretch the story out. So my default play mode is very passive & exploratory. I really enjoy these puzzle & story hurdles as a means to take a more active role for a time. It breaks up the quiet, peaceful, (sometimes kinda dull) pace & gives me a good head-scratcher to figure out.

Granted some of them really got my blood boiling for a while (the big bear fight)... but I appreciated coming out the other side back into peaceful exploration.

I'm on the whole - glad these elements exist.

Although I agree that some kind of consequence to failure besides a hard reset would be nice. And reloading to try again would be optional. That would also be cool.

On 12/7/2021 at 11:07 PM, fauxjargon said:

We know from the low Steam Achievement rates associated with new content that most people who have bought The Long Dark no longer play.  For instance, I think only 3% or so of Steam owners finished Episode 3.

I'd be curious how much of this is affected by the high number of Wintermute players who have vowed not to continue it until all chapters are released so they can do it all in one go?

I also have many many hours in TLD & I bought it on sale .... I've received an embarrassingly high value for money from this game & I'd be happy to buy some DLC.

This is absolutely fantastic. Lots of great info and things to look forward to.

Really curious how modding goes for the game in the future, and also hoping that paid Survival updates include more regions. I wonder if splitting the game will also make things much easier for Story Mode to be 'complete' after Episode 5, and then basically left as-is, and then resources can be poured into the Survival game and paid updates. Sounds like a flexible approach.

You guys do a great job, and TLD just keeps getting better. Thank you for all the work put into the game this year - Episode 4 was awesome - and thank you for sticking to your commitments even through a tough pandemic, and for continuing to give players more fresh content and great plans in the future.

Happy Holidays to the team - enjoy your time off!

PS- in the interest of supporting the game - if you ever reopen the Swag store, I'll be making some purchases!

Hi All,

I created a video play-through of Episode 4 with no commentary or talking in case you want to see the episode without a steamer chatting.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLOzTgtizJLPdXLN87UXgEFwG-zFvIetTE

Same reason will does ANYTHING for the convicts. They have something he wants. If he started shooting them... no case.

On 10/12/2021 at 2:50 PM, Celvin said:

 Instead he meets a random person and immediately decides he needs to meet her boss. 

Jace's boss is Atwood - the name that the bearded Trapper (Jeremiah) told Mackenzie to find & tell them the key word "Wintermute".

This episode literally connects the story's title, previous chapters, the case, Astrid & Perseverance Mills ... all together & makes things line up & answers several key questions:

- What's in the case? Why should we care about it?

- What's wrong with Perseverance Mills & why does Astrid want to go there so badly?

- Who is Atwood? Where are they?

- Where are all these convicts coming from who've been causing trouble across the island?

- Is anyone looking into the aurora & trying to figure out what is happening?

All answered. I can't believe people still aren't happy. 🤦‍♀️

On 10/12/2021 at 11:17 AM, SladeyGaming said:

 

• The confiscation should maybe not include all your clothes, but maybe the top layers. Like a coat and things. To make a point that the prisoners are nasty but also not leave you completely naked that broke the immersion a little

I was able to keep both my sweaters on the left & everything on the right including ear wraps.

On 10/12/2021 at 11:17 AM, SladeyGaming said:

 

• How we went from Mckenzie not knowing what he's doing in the first episodes to being confident out in the wild which brings me to the next point...

This 100%. I love that it matches how we as players have gained experience & confidence.

This is my complaint with SO MANY pc-to-console games. When I play Stardew Valley on Switch I have to drag a chair closer. 😭

And for Subnautica Below Zero, getting pin point aim without a mouse was so annoying I re-bought it for PC & am going to start over. 

Siiigh.

I've finished Episode 4 & I've sat down over a few days to write this review. I think it's important to share our praise and not just our complaints. Anyone who creates anything for the public knows - feedback is often skewed: angry people are motivated to complain more often than satisfied people are motivated to give appreciation.

I am a lifelong gamer & TLD has been a light for me over the pandemic. I bought it on sale 2 summers ago & have never put this many hours into a game. Story mode is my favourite way to play & I've played chapters 1-3 twice so far & many more hours in sandbox. I eagerly awaited the next chapter...

This was my favourite by far. And that is really saying something because playing as Astrid, rescuing people & finding supplies for all those survivors, looting the airplane... wow episode 3 was so very satisfying for me.

But episode 4 feels like it has pulled together the skills that the Hinterland team has developed over the years. As others have said, the map is huge & varied. The locations are interesting. The minimal loading screens. The tense, high volumes of aggressive wildlife. The trees & mountains. The prison & its grounds! Wow!

The new noisemaker adds a use for cans & a non-lethal wolf deterrant that is fun & a bit dangerous to use. It fits very well in the game theme & rounds out our toolkit.

Something is UP with these wolves! For the first time I felt truly hunted. They came through gates to get at me. Multiple times I returned to areas where I forgot to close a door & yikes that was a mistake! A pack of 3 were *waiting for me* up the road & around the corner where the prison entrance is. I had put away my gun thinking I was a few steps from safety - surprise! Whatever was done to the wolf pathfinding was great.

Others have said it already but the story, voice acting & cutscenes were riveting. When the gurney was wheeled out with the warden I audibly gasped & felt actual anger to the characters for killing him after all my efforts to get the medicine! The final scenes were incredible with some satisfying answers & new questions.

The puzzles - steam pipes, gas mines & forest talkers cache & combo lock were head-scratchy enough that following the logic & finally solving them felt so GOOD. And like my actions had meaning & not just puzzles for the sake of puzzles. Of course this ancient facility has a patchwork of frozen pipes (I've seen messes like this in real life!). Of course a mine in an earthquake prone region has a bunch of escaped dangerous gasses. It didn't seem contrived to make me solve these things.

I will add, the gas in the mine had me holding my breath in REAL LIFE! Gasping for air as I dove back down into the mist desperately searching for the next fresh air pocket! Absolutely awesome. Fumbling around as your vision goes fuzzy. The feeling of desperation as you have no clue what to do then slowly piece together the solution! 😍

And the sound effects! Oh my god. The grind of that old elevator. The tinny explosion of the noisemaker. The hiss of the steam. The rush of the river. The voice actors. The chain-link fence gates. Hats off to your foley artists & sound folks. This episode is sooo satisfying to the ears - I've always particularly loved the sound in this game.

Can we also take a minute to appreciate the quality of life settings - harsh language & the eating sounds filters. Things that benefit few players but take extra effort. I remember Raph tweeting a while ago about how to replace certain swear words while keeping the dialog gritty. This team knew the swearing would put off some players & made efforts to accomodate. Even when a vocal minority was screaming at them to hurry up... they took time for these features.

This episode - delivered through the harsh challenges of a pandemic & unknown stress & personal challenges this may have brought to the team - is a real triumph. Most of us know, we have not been our best selves through the last year & a half. Many of us have had kids home from school, arguments with family members, job uncertainty, illness, political stress & more. Of course the Hinterland team & their families have faced the same challenges. No one creates in a vaccuum. And yet, Hinterland pulled this off & placed it in our impatient hands this month & it feels like zero corners were cut.

They delivered it to us knowing that just like with every new update or release... the nitpicking complaints will flow. Sure as the wind in TLD will blow opposite to the direction you need to travel. But most of us - fans of story mode or diehard sandbox players - if we divide the price we paid for the game by the number of hours we've logged, have been entertained for *pennies* per hour. Amazing.

Despite being an avid gamer, I almost never follow a particular game company. But I will watch for whatever Hinterland puts out over the years to come. This has been one of the most enjoyable & satisfying games I have played since Half-Life & definitely the best value for dollar.

Thank you Hinterland. Absolutely, unequivocally worth the wait.
❄️

Very well said - hear hear!! I agree completely with this review.

I always worry about submitting bug reports because I always assume that someone else has done it. 🤔 But none are showstoppers so. Maybe I'll report them if they happen again.

Off the top of my head I've had:

- Noisemaker "sticking" to the revolver so both appear equipped.

- Yellow unread indicator on journal items doesn't clear when read.

- A wolf stuck in the eating a rabbit animation but no rabbit.

How are you tilting things & hanging them on walls? A mod I assume?

6 hours ago, Pınar51-06 said:

But we saw astrid went to Perseverance Mills by sailing 

Uhh what?

4 minutes ago, ElleJoy said:

I don't know if the ESRB follows the same guidelines as MPAA, but I know the MPAA's new ruling (it was different for 80s/90s movies) allows one F word for PG-13. Anything more and it gets an R rating. 

Wow!

I've seen some uber violent PG-13 movies. Some priorities are outta whack here. 🙃

5 minutes ago, ElleJoy said:

A warning would be a decent idea. I'm wondering if they may have to implement that when the game is finalized, if only because I doubt they wanna see the rating shift to M. 

It would blow my mind if language is enough to give a game an M rating... but all the animal killing doesn't? I have no clue how game ratings work though. 🤷‍♀️

I find that going around the obvious path ( roads, tree lots, frozen ponds) allowed me to avoid many of the wolves. When you can't avoid them, one noise maker for regular wolves, 2 for Timberwolves will clear the region for about 5-10 real-world minutes. Enough to sprint through the area.

I'm on medium difficulty & I'm swimming in ammo, flares & noisemakers.

29 minutes ago, ElleJoy said:

I really wish before folks replied they'd read the whole thread, instead of just commenting on something that's already been discussed. 

Again - I wasn't suggesting that I expected the prisoners to be fluffy puppy huggers. No one here has said that. But there was certainly not any indication in the previous episodes that such gratuitous amounts of swearing would be presented. I'm happy with the filters (tho as a previous poster pointed out, it does miss some of the words), but it's significantly jarring when you aren't anticipating it and there are more than 10 F words in one cutscene at the very start of the episode. I'm just glad my mother played it first and warned me, because (not anticipating it) I intended to play it when the kids were awake. The previous chapters had only a few words here and there, and the violence has always been what I'd consider relatively tame - I don't enjoy the bear-mauling (mostly because it gets irritating after a while), but I also don't see that as a comparison to the gratuitous swearing. 

And for the record, while my kiddos are actually homeschooled, I'm not delusional enough to think they won't eventually hear bad language. I'm well equipped to turn that into teachable moments. I don't see where you got the impression I was 'hiding from reality', but I personally find there's a big difference between reality, and a video game rated T for 'mild language' dropping in M rated language usage. If my kids hear the F word in real life, I will explain to them that it is a swear word and shouldn't be used liberally... But I'm not just going to throw on Wolf of Wallstreet and let them go nuts watching it.

 

Good points actually.

Not so funny story... I was playing once & my kids were watching over my shoulder for a few minutes. I thought what harm could it be I'm just walking in the snow, I was sure no wolves in that area... and I walked right into a bear!! Almost tore my monitor apart trying to turn it off because you can't hit Esc in the middle of a bear mauling! 😭 Needless to say I learned that lesson the hard way! 🤦‍♀️

I do think think that if there isn't already a warning at the start of the episode - there should be. You make a good point that people are expecting a certain level of language based on past episodes & Episode 4 is drastically different.

Sorry to hear that the filters don't catch it all. That's a bummer.

Honestly did not expect to see this discussion here. Anyone who follows the episode progress/news/teasers knows that we were heading to a *prison*. It would have been absolutely unbelievable if the prisoners weren't swearing up a storm.

In a game where you can get graphically mauled by a bear - complete with screaming - a few cuss words has players upset? You can turn swearing OFF in the settings... or just realize that words can't hurt you.

I don't think there is anything wrong with not liking harsh language, but criticising the game for including it is too much.

--

Re kids: if your children are in school... they have heard swearing. In fact we took our kids to the park yesterday & there were other kids under 10 who were swearing. Made for a good moment to teach our kids (3 boys 9 & younger) about bad language - that it exists, it isn't nice & can hurt other people's feelings, etc. No sense hiding from reality.

4 hours ago, Pınar51-06 said:

I didn’t expect Molly’s voice in teaser ı’m shaken a little. Thanks for your hard work Hinterland! Can’t wait to play. 

That doesn't sound like Molly to me...