Great Bones, Needs Meat (DIVERSITY CALLS)

[jmraynor]

Hello All,

The Long Dark has great bones, but it needs meat (DIVERSITY) to add to the feeling of the game and really make it an experience worth playing through over and over.

Here is my list of things that I think could be fixed (relatively) easily, but would add ALOT to the game!

1. (FOOD) More types of food, please..... I am tired of drinking soda with beef jerkey, add some more wild edibles?!

2. (WEAPONS) ....why is a "Hunting Knife" and "Hatchet" not a weapon.... Please add more weapon diversity, I like that the rifle and such are scare and all, but we need more than just a bow.

Examples

Hatchet should be a weapon

Knife should be a weapon

Add a new "Hefty Branch" that can be crated into a "Club"

Add "Stones" that can be picked up and thrown to scare off wolves, damage if hit

"Stones" with gut-cords and "Club" creates "Stone-Club"

"Hefty Branch" and gut-cords and knife make "Sturdy Spear"

and so on.... PLEASE ADD DIVERSITY!

3. (STICKS) A forest has different types of sticks. Sounds simple but would add a lot of depth. Need more different tree types and branch types more so than the existing few. Benefits could be different weight, burn times, burn temps. Also would reduce the tedium of picking up the same damn stick that looks the same, makes the same sound.... Add diversity to add replay value!

4. (SHELTERS) The shelters I have encountered are all very similar in terms of feel, interior design and so on. It would be cool to have differences here that were more substantial than just what the loot, location, or purpose of the shelter is. Please add more MEANINGFUL diversity to shelter interiors.

OH HOW I WISH I COULD LOOK OUT THE WINDOWS! waking up to go outside to check if its still a blizzard is just annoying.... please add a mechanic to look out windows! The game is beautiful, but not the building interior which is sad...

Survival game without the ability to BUILD MY OWN SHELTER??? I must be lost. I think the game would benefit a TON by adding more stick diversity, maybe allowing you to use snow or leaves or whatever as material as well. In the real world you need to be able to build a shelter. Whether its an igloo or just a lean-to, we need to be able to have some CREATIVE CONTROL over shelters. I like the idea of venturing out and trying to live just by my campfire and shelter I have built, but I find this play style is not encouraged in the game sadly.

5. (BASIC MATERIALS) As I referenced before, there needs to be more basic materials, hopefully coupled with a building system. The only thing I can build is fire??? That is not survival! What if I want to just prop up some rocks and sticks to make a small marker to help me find my way back... cant do it... its simple but cool things like this that players want to be able to build, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO INTERACT WITH THE ENVIRONMENT. Sure I can gather a few types of herbs, but what I really need is to be able to gather rocks, sticks, leaves, snow pack, branches, pine needles, etc. I cannot even cut down a tree??? I think making the environment more harvestable and maluable will really add creativity and choice to how players play the game.

6. (WILD LIFE!!!!) Please please please... if you read anything here or respond to anything here.. make it wildlife. I am in the forest with only RABBITS,DEER, WOLVES, BEARS?????? (and fish/crows?). There MUST BE MORE WILDLIFE and it has to FEEL ALIVE. The wolves feel like robots, I have never seen a bear, and the rabbits feel like robots.....

We are playing this game to have a survival experience, not a zombie experience or a first person shooter experience. We are PLAYING THIS GAME BECAUSE WE WANT TO EXPERIENCE NATURE, the beauty the raw power, the elements, the challenges and the rewards.

I want to see animals, LOTS OF ANIMALS, because I am in a remote forest area. I want to be able to hunt birds, or just hear them sing. I want to see wild boar running through the forests, eagles flying above, and snow lynx stalking there prey, if im lucky! I want to know that JUST AROUND THAT CORNER I STAND A CHANCE TO SEE SOME WILD ANIMAL OR AMAZING SCENERY OR EVENT THAT I HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE. I think this starts with animal diversity, and making the AI behaviors much more varied and not have every deer and every wolf do the same exact thing.

MAKE THE WORLD FEEL ALIVE, PLEASE! No one will want to travel through this bleak world for very long, story mode or not, trust me you need to make the WORLD ITSELF more varied, more alive, and more interesting to walk around in.... PLEASE!

Hope these idea make sense, I would be happy to hear anyone's specific response or support.

Best Regards,

Jeremy

[sarudak]

I don't actually feel like any of these things would increase the replayability for me. More maps, procedurally generated maps, making wolves less exploitable, more craftables like traps maybe, more challenge in staying warm even inside shelters, these are the things that would improve replayability for me.

[jmraynor]

Hey Sarudak,

I totally feel you on your opinion. I also think more maps and changes to wolf behavior would be nice. However I also think that more crafting as you called for requires more materials and recipes, and the wolf thing is just part of it. I think there needs to be more wild life and better behavior to make the world a more vibrant place, hence a place you want to go explore and survive in more.... What you think?

[akodo1]

I take a path down the middle.

Wolf needs to be fixed. Food supply for early game to allow more exploring and before you are fully tooled up needs to be fixed. Then more maps.

I don't need more stick animations. More tree animations, great! (love to see dead trees topple in stiff wind, scattering sticks, branches and limbs all about). Different types of wood would be fine, easy to do (give it different stats, same icons) but not a big deal to me.

Wildlife!

What I would find interesting would be a variety of wolf appearances. Make 4 different fur types, and 3 different sizes. Have the sizes act slightly different (biggest is more aggressive and harder to fight off, smaller is most likely to spot you, but least likely to attack)

I'd like there to be maybe 1 more basic large predator type added, maybe mountain lion. Harder to spot, likes to wait on cliff faces and leap at player as he walks the valley or iced over river blow.

Female deer to be added, and maybe a rare appearance by other big game creatures (moose would be my choice, occasionally appears around lakes)

I'd like more medium/small creatures.

I'd start with a fox of something, who can be seen chasing rabbits. His main job is to have a few rabbit corpses around for you to scavenge, especially early game. People could abuse him the way they abuse the wolf to hunt for them. but that's okay because the yield from rabbit is much less.

Then a game bird, ptarmigan would be my suggestion. Or any of Canada's grouse really.

Then a water animal, either muskrat or beaver. Maybe both. In both cases you'd rarely see them but with a hatchet you can break into the den, and possibly catch some, but mainly you'd be trapping.

Finally, SKUNKS! Something that gives a different kind of threat than wolves. Bother them up close and you get a bunch of effects including momentary blurry vision and staggering around (think of how it is to walk back to the cabin when you are below 10% warm!)

key is the animals are all different, providing different challenges and threats.

To dovetail into this added diversity I'd also change what the animals give. No longer animal specific. Now you get guts, meat, hide, and fur. A rabbit would give 1 gut 1 fur and a bit of meat. A wolf would give meat, 2-3 guts, 3-4 furs. Hides would be dried like now and make footwear and pats like now. Fur same thing, you'd just need a lot more pieces of it to make your fur coat, but it wouldn't matter if you got that fur from wolf, rabbit, or whatever.

Traps

I'd like to see more traps. I'd like to see a found bear trap (can trap anything) and a found wolf trap (can trap wolf, deer, or anything smaller) that wear with use and can be repaired. In addition to snares which could catch any of the small animals, I'd like to see the ability to create both large and small deadfall traps. (small = 1 cedar or fir, 1 stick, can kill small animals, is reusable. big = kill all but bear, require many cedar/fir and saplings. is reusable. However total amount to make trap is very weighty, so you probably make 2-3 trips to get your trap set up, or relocated)

Basic Materials

Here I disagree. I see only small gains here. I'd like to see maybe a few more items that can be found that are useful for crafting but that's about it. I've never purposely in the game tried to mark my trail, but you should be able to drop a stick, take a step, drop a stick, take a step, drop a stick, and that should allow you to to mark your trails

Shelters

Partly agree, partly disagree. This is bare minimal survival. Building an effective shelter to operate from, that's very demanding. I could see an item 'tent' being available, very heavy but gives more warmth than just bedroll when sleeping in it, possibly expanding that to a craftable 'teepee' if you have enough cured saplings and leather. but again, very heavy. I think digging a snow cave might be interesting to implement but I think it would be hard to differentiate between a drift deep enough to cave up in vs just rise or small hill covered in a few feet of snow. Also, the people who survive in snow caves tend to be outdoors in full winter gear in good condition who face a very cold snap or nightfall coming on. With the condition of our player, a snow cave should not be something that he could live the night through*. He's not a Besides, if it was, it would proably make the game too easy.

I agree with being able to know the outside conditions without actually venturing out would be nice, but going out and right back in isn't terrible. To me, fussing around with eating what you just cooked is much more annoying that going out to check the weather.

Sticks I think I already mentioned this, not worth the time to come up with more stick animations.

*Yes I am aware of Igloos and Quinzhees. Yes these are 'snow caves' where with just a lamp burning it is often comfortable conditions inside. BUT, these actually take a lot of skill and knowledge to build. You have to use the right kind of snow for both good insulation and structural integrity for starters. Igloos also have a long entrance and dip to keep outside air outside, areas designed as 'cold traps', etc And while they can be built in a day, can our survivor last that long building? probably not. Air temp in a properly constructed igloo with a hide door flap and lamp is around 2C, mainly due to body heat. This game doesn't give cabins and other buildings enough credit for how your body warms them, they should be a lot more survivable, and your bedroll outdoors should be almost a death sentence. Balance wise snow caves would either be way too powerful and convenient, or not worth the extra effort.

Weapons (and tools)

I'd like to see an improvement here too. But it also may require reworking the wolf strategy some.

It makes sense to me that I'd be able to have my hunting knife or hatchet ready as a weapon when encountering a wolf, Maybe even strike first for a small advantage. In the absence of these two, I should be able to use a stick. No need for a 'club' to be added. (I imagine the 'stick' to be 2-3 foot long, just short enough to fit in backpack, maybe an inch in diameter, not as effective as hunting knife, but definitely would help)

I should be able to throw the stick or torch just like the flare. Managing to hit near the wolf with the torch should be just as scary as the flare, hitting the wolf with flare or torch should inflict a bit of injury and send it running. Managing to fling your stick in the wolf's face probably isn't going to do much injury but should add to how likely he is to run off.

Hatchet and hunting knife should wear extremely slowly.

Game could add a kitchen knife that can't be sharpened and is less effective weapon and tool (tasks take longer with it) making the hunting knife a premium find (just like some jackets are better than others) yet allowing the break down of cloth stuff, harvesting frozen carcass, etc. Kitchen knife would wear quickly...they aren't really designed for outdoor use.

Pocket knife would be another great addition, no weapon value just a tool, but can be sharpened and lasts a long time. (Maybe I should assume everyone starts with a pocket knife, as I am not really sure how well you can harvest meat from a fresh kill with literally your bare hands)

Surely if there is room for two different hats, there is room for 3 knives.

Kitchen knife + sapling + line = crude hunting spear. Less effective than bow at taking deer, but still something. May use it at fishing holes, with chance of loss. Add gut/string and you have crude fishing spear, no chance of loss. Can be used as a weapon.

Ditch the idea of sharpening hacksaw. Find hacksaw blades which can be 'used' to give 100% condition hack saw.

Add in a camp saw, cuts things faster, but cannot be used as a weapon, to smash ice open, or to harvest meat. Needs to be sharpened but sharpening is less effective and more time consuming than for other tools.

Add a machete, slower cutting of wood than hatchet, but makes a better weapon. Only needs to be sharpened.

Add a full blown axe. Faster at cutting wood than hatchet (or camp saw) better weapon but a lot more weight.

Candles! (no, not birthday cake candles, but disaster/survival candles) (Note, some survival candles are made of tallow and can be eaten. Others are made from soy wax, and can also be eaten. This used to be an advertized useage, but in most places the makers didn't want to do the extra stuff required for food packaging and now leave that detail off.

Slingshot - both found 'wrist rocket' manufactured type plus crafted. Crafted uses stick plus stretchable bands (harvest from tire of abandoned vehicles using knife). Stretchable band can have other crafting uses, for splints, traps, stand-in for line for some crafting, etc.

Rocks - can be thrown at wolf. Can be thrown at small game with a chance of a kill. mainly used as projectile for slingshot.

Food

I think there is a surprising diversity in 'types'. I just wish there was more diversity in characteristics. Some...in fact MOST of the food we are encountering now should have very long shelf life even rattling around in your pack. Having your rosehips, and cooked or raw meat degrade that makes sense. Your granola bar, beef jerky, less so. Canned goods? can last years and years in real life, should last weeks and weeks in game.

Hard candy, chips, crackers, ketchup packets (a little humorus but they do tend to end up everywhere, last quite a while, and in a pinch, you'd eat them), cheese,

More dried goods that require 'cooking' Once cooked degrade rapidly. Very similar to tea and similar items, you'd need X amount of water to cook. Dried Pasta. Powdered milk. Tang (Generic Space Orange Powder), Rice, soup packets. Popcorn! inedible if not cooked, but doesn't require water to cook (assuming you are popping in a hot pan)

Bottles of wine, cans of beer (it's Canada after all). Will give calories and hydration , might make you feel warmer but actually causes you to cool slightly more quickly. Too much adds a drunk condition. While a lot of media has alcohol like whiskey etc being flammable, it actually isn't very flammable at all as most is around 70 proof. (35% alcohol, mostly water). Moonshine could be an exception, drink it for calories, use it medically, use it as a fire accelerant!

[SwissArmy]

All the suggestions above make excellent points about what would improve the game. Personally, I take as a starting point the subjects and practical teachings of survival manuals. For example, hunting is far less efficient than trapping. Setting trap lines is the best way to increase your probability of actually catching something. Having, finding or making traps is therefore essential.

[jmraynor]

thanks akodo1 for the long reply, I generally agree with all your points and you have changed my views. I agree with the need for diversity in wildlife as a PREMIUM point.

#more wild life