Wildlife migration

[FrozenLiquidity]

Hey all, I posted this as a response to another thread but the idea was not directly related to the thread topic and is something that could use a bit more visibility .

TL:DR Trapping and hunting game in one area should make game in that area scarce over time. Game should move to areas with less pressure. Players choose to venture further from their camp to hunt/trap or relocate closer to hunter/trapping location. Wolves attracted to frequent hunting/trapping grounds on the basis of all the dead things to eat/scavenge. Could cart deer/rabbit corpses back to your shelter, but wolves can pick up on this scent and may start hanging out closer to your dwelling as a result. Why? Boring/dull/repetitive gameplay once homestead is established. There is no reason for players to change their behavior and players can simply play the hibernation game because all needs are indefinitely satisfied. This change would nudge the game back towards what it ought to be about - survival.

The Long Read: I was playing TLD last weekend with a friend or two watching as I collected the rabbits from some of my snares and it got me thinking... "Can't you just take the rabbits with you so you don't freeze to death skinning them out here?" no, I can't. But I should be able to - then, the follow-up question. "Doesn't leaving all these animal carcasses attract predators?" - it sure doesn't seem like it, but it probably should. These questions got me thinking a bit more about this. Currently, my longest runs are 40 days, and I could go on much, much longer but just find that things get tedious after that. One settles into a routine and essentially goes in to hibernation until they need to restock their supply of resources which they can do nearly indefinitely as some folks with over 1000 days survived can attest to.

Survivors will simply find an appropriate place to set up a permanent base and pool their resources there and stay there until the end of days and creates a (in my opinion) boring, tedious and very static long-term survival experience. This is made possible by the abundance of renewable resources in the way of game. Patches of trees provide tinder, ample snow provides water when melted, Wolves, Deer and rabbits are frequently found in the same spots over and over again. There is little to no migration of these animals and when you need food it's just a matter of going to their areas and hunting. There is no threat of over-harvesting or game becoming scarce. There is no threat of wolves frequenting your hunting grounds. I see a number of ways that this could be directly countered.

Prey such as deer and rabbits should be somewhat more mobile. When they are hunted too much in one area they become scarce and move to another. This would have the effect of putting pressure on the player to seek out their new grounds and either make long treks to hunt them, or require them to relocate closer to their food source. A few deer, a dozen rabbits. That's about as much as I would expect to get out of an active area before game gets a bit more scarce.

Secondly, in popular game areas, especially those for trapping make things a bit riskier. You've been killing deer or rabbits, gutting them out in the snow and taking everything you can, but that still leaves a good portion of dead rabbit for some wolf to sniff out and claim. If you keep leaving little presents like this, wolves and bears are bound to frequent the area as well looking for a free meal to scavenge or possibly hunt.

If you were able to (and you should be able to!) take your rabbits home to clean them or tote home a deer, the traces you leave (a bloody trail, entrails and other tossed out rabbit gunk) is surely going to be an attraction for predators as well. A murder of crows already signifies a dead deer or a corpse of some other unfortunate soul. They'll come for your entrails too and should find other dead game. When they start hanging out, other animals will catch on too, the wolves won't be too far behind and sooner or later, you'll have predators hanging out relatively close to your home. On a similar note, the migration of animals from one area to another should leave telltale signs of their passing unless the weather conditions have erased it over time. Fresh prints in the snow is something that any survivor worth their salt would take notice of and use to their advantage.

Making the wildlife a bit more dynamic requires players to adapt and put themselves in riskier situations than they'd otherwise prefer to get in to. With both wood for fire and snow for water in relative abundance this seems to be the most logical way to prevent hibernating indefinitely and introduce more risks as players must move constantly, search areas to find game migrations and food sources, deal with moving any stockpiles of goods (or traveling without the kitchen sink), and confront the predators which share the same prey. In short, it puts the focus of the game back on survival rather than the homesteading that the late game currently falls in to.

My $.02 :ugeek:

[metsavend]

+1

Once you have found yourself a permanent base, it could get boring pretty fast. Kill a deer, cook the meat, melt some snow and after that just sleep-drink-eat-sleep-drink-eat-sleep etc. Then you can kill-cook-melt and everything will repeat again. I imagine, it's relatively easy to survive 100+ days this way and to be really bored at the same time.

[lolmuffin]

I agree. Hunters carry more than one rabbit. Like this.

When I got rabbits from 3 snares front of house I thought this.

[Raven 2010]

+1 to moving corpses I made a thread on that my self

as for hunting deer that is not much of a problem as ammo is fairly rare and arrow are not infanit but rabbits need a nurf as a broken snair can be fixed with the rabbits guts you have around only thing that is Gona stop you is your tool durability

[FrozenLiquidity]

Appreciate the responses guys... though I think a TL:DR version of this thread would help clear things up.

This is not about the ability to move fallen game, but rather that wildlife behavior patterns need to change to present more of a challenge to players. Trapping and hunting game in one area should make game in that area scarce over time, they can and should move to other areas where the they would be under less pressure. This would require players to extend themselves further from wherever they set up shop to find game once the local sources have exhausted. They may even need to move shop to get closer to their source of food. With wood being found just about anywhere, and water being available to anyone with the capability of making a fire, food sources are the only way to encourage players to change their behavior once they have fallen in to the hibernation rut that tends to be the hallmark of the long game.

In addition to this, wolves should be attracted to areas in which game has been slaughtered or gutted, making those hunting /trapping grounds 100m from your back door all the more dangerous. Gutting game there should attract wolves to that area, and if you take them back home (and one *should* be able to carry a few rabbits or a deer back to a safe place to gut it) should also attract wolves after a time. The current model allows players to set up permanent bases with easy access to every resource they need - it's essentially homesteading, and this game is supposed to be about survival. Requiring players to adapt to the changes in their environment is a good way to change this and adds another dynamic element to the game that will result in more emergent gameplay.

[lolmuffin]

This is not about the ability to move fallen game, but rather that wildlife behavior patterns need to change to present more of a challenge to players.

Sure. actually it's weird. wolves can smell this but more than 1 hour nothing comes and I'm cutting in cold weather..

[FrozenLiquidity]

This is not about the ability to move fallen game, but rather that wildlife behavior patterns need to change to present more of a challenge to players.

Sure. actually it's weird. wolves can smell this but more than 1 hour nothing comes and I'm cutting in cold weather..

Yeah, it's shocking this isn't part of the game already. Wolves may prefer to take down live prey but they are opportunistic in the nature of their feeding. It's only natural to conclude that rabbit or deer corpses left out would attract them to an area for easy meals or even hunting for themselves provided that game is still in the area.

[Sabreknot777]

I agree. You are entirely correct. Frankly, I should be able to put a deer or wolf over my shoulders and take it back to my camp.

[FrozenLiquidity]

I agree. You are entirely correct. Frankly, I should be able to put a deer or wolf over my shoulders and take it back to my camp.

And then of course deal with the consequences of leaving the smell of blood and game around your dwelling, potentially attracting any number of hungry predators.

[Sabreknot777]

Yup, there is that. As well as the inevitable blood on your clothing. I packed a deer up a steep slope got back to my truck and noticed my pants were soaked. Called it a day rather than continue in the woods smelling like dinner!

[Gleudal]

+1

[Hotzn]

Hey all, I posted this as a response to another thread but the idea was not directly related to the thread topic and is something that could use a bit more visibility .

TL:DR Trapping and hunting game in one area should make game in that area scarce over time. Game should move to areas with less pressure. Players choose to venture further from their camp to hunt/trap or relocate closer to hunter/trapping location. Wolves attracted to frequent hunting/trapping grounds on the basis of all the dead things to eat/scavenge. Could cart deer/rabbit corpses back to your shelter, but wolves can pick up on this scent and may start hanging out closer to your dwelling as a result. Why? Boring/dull/repetitive gameplay once homestead is established. There is no reason for players to change their behavior and players can simply play the hibernation game because all needs are indefinitely satisfied. This change would nudge the game back towards what it ought to be about - survival.

The Long Read: I was playing TLD last weekend with a friend or two watching as I collected the rabbits from some of my snares and it got me thinking... "Can't you just take the rabbits with you so you don't freeze to death skinning them out here?" no, I can't. But I should be able to - then, the follow-up question. "Doesn't leaving all these animal carcasses attract predators?" - it sure doesn't seem like it, but it probably should. These questions got me thinking a bit more about this. Currently, my longest runs are 40 days, and I could go on much, much longer but just find that things get tedious after that. One settles into a routine and essentially goes in to hibernation until they need to restock their supply of resources which they can do nearly indefinitely as some folks with over 1000 days survived can attest to.

Survivors will simply find an appropriate place to set up a permanent base and pool their resources there and stay there until the end of days and creates a (in my opinion) boring, tedious and very static long-term survival experience. This is made possible by the abundance of renewable resources in the way of game. Patches of trees provide tinder, ample snow provides water when melted, Wolves, Deer and rabbits are frequently found in the same spots over and over again. There is little to no migration of these animals and when you need food it's just a matter of going to their areas and hunting. There is no threat of over-harvesting or game becoming scarce. There is no threat of wolves frequenting your hunting grounds. I see a number of ways that this could be directly countered.

Prey such as deer and rabbits should be somewhat more mobile. When they are hunted too much in one area they become scarce and move to another. This would have the effect of putting pressure on the player to seek out their new grounds and either make long treks to hunt them, or require them to relocate closer to their food source. A few deer, a dozen rabbits. That's about as much as I would expect to get out of an active area before game gets a bit more scarce.

Secondly, in popular game areas, especially those for trapping make things a bit riskier. You've been killing deer or rabbits, gutting them out in the snow and taking everything you can, but that still leaves a good portion of dead rabbit for some wolf to sniff out and claim. If you keep leaving little presents like this, wolves and bears are bound to frequent the area as well looking for a free meal to scavenge or possibly hunt.

If you were able to (and you should be able to!) take your rabbits home to clean them or tote home a deer, the traces you leave (a bloody trail, entrails and other tossed out rabbit gunk) is surely going to be an attraction for predators as well. A murder of crows already signifies a dead deer or a corpse of some other unfortunate soul. They'll come for your entrails too and should find other dead game. When they start hanging out, other animals will catch on too, the wolves won't be too far behind and sooner or later, you'll have predators hanging out relatively close to your home. On a similar note, the migration of animals from one area to another should leave telltale signs of their passing unless the weather conditions have erased it over time. Fresh prints in the snow is something that any survivor worth their salt would take notice of and use to their advantage.

Making the wildlife a bit more dynamic requires players to adapt and put themselves in riskier situations than they'd otherwise prefer to get in to. With both wood for fire and snow for water in relative abundance this seems to be the most logical way to prevent hibernating indefinitely and introduce more risks as players must move constantly, search areas to find game migrations and food sources, deal with moving any stockpiles of goods (or traveling without the kitchen sink), and confront the predators which share the same prey. In short, it puts the focus of the game back on survival rather than the homesteading that the late game currently falls in to.

My $.02 :ugeek:

+1