The "Condition Gain" effect on new recipes is WAY too powerful and feels out of place.

[BugReportEnthusiast]

Here is a quick TL;DR so you don't have to read the entire thing:

-> Instant condition restore effects are very powerful, can be immersion breaking, and generally don't mesh well with the type of game that TLD is trying to be. <-
-> Because of this, the instant condition restoration on recipes should be replaced with a long lasting "Condition restore" effect (2.5%/hr for 10 hours, or similar) <-
-> The "Max Condition" Buff needs to be reworked so that it doesn't permanently grant you HP. The HP gains should be taken away after the effect ends. <-

Below is the explanation for why i think these changes are needed:

With the new cooking system, many discoverable recipes have the ability to instantly restore condition to the player, either from max condition or with the condition gain buff.
This creates several issues with game balance, immersion and game direction (a little bit)

Problem 1: Game Balance

The problem with these foods is that they inevitably become get out of jail free cards and completely remove a lot of the risk and danger that this game has.You are always able to fall back to your.. well, Health packs, and pretty easily heal any amount of damage taken that would otherwise have been life threatening.
It is now completely possible to heal yourself by up to 50%(!!!) in a few seconds by eating 2 prepper's pies, something that is insanely powerful and unheard of in this game.

Healing large amounts of HP has always required downtime, aka restful sleep. You've always needed to plan ahead in order to heal yourself properly. Healing yourself by that much in that short of a time span is absurdly powerful, especially since it carries no downsides. (none that matter anyway, -3kg carry weight for 1hr is basically nothing)
In comparison, the emergency stims have the downside of completely exhausting the player after 1 minute has passed, which throws a wrench in any plans they might have had for the day and forces them to find shelter, and try again after stabilizing the situation. This is a good way of implementing instant HP gain. It needs to come with a massive downside to offset the incredibly powerful life-saving effect that is instant condition gain.

And yes, I understand that these items are very difficult to obtain. Requiring multiple materials, cooking 5, and a recipe hidden in a random bunker in this game's massive map, It's a very tough thing to gain access to. But that doesn't change the fact that it trivializes condition management once you finally do have them. (Also, this applies to other recipes as well, but to a lesser extent.)

Problem 2: Immersion

This type of instant healing can be pretty dicey when it comes to being immersed in the game, because it makes no sense for a meal to immediately heal your character from any potential source of condition loss. Yes, a good meal can help out if you're struggling, but a pie is not a magic health pack that instantly heals injuries.
Mauled by an animal? Pie!
Freezing/bleeding to death? Pie!
Severely dehydrated for the last 30 hours? Pie!
Fell from a climbing rope and sprained all of your limbs? Pie!

It just makes no sense for foods to instantly heal players. It reminds you that you're playing a game and makes everything feel artificial

Problem 2.5: Game direction

With the introduction of these items, players now don't really need to bother with managing their condition when exploring, hunting, traveling or doing any other type of task. The game loses its risk. Survival is so guaranteed once you're able to create these items that it becomes stale and boring. Instead of always knowing you could die at any moment by making a mistake, you know that you always have a big safety net for when things might go wrong.

I want to end by sharing a portion of the "Steadfast Ranger" update video, where Raph talks about birch bark's tea place in the game.

Hinterland, please reconsider these instant HP buffs.

[James Hickok]

On 9/4/2023 at 5:23 PM, BugReportEnthusiast said:

Here is a quick TL;DR so you don't have to read the entire thing:

-> Instant condition restore effects are very powerful, can be immersion breaking, and generally don't mesh well with the type of game that TLD is trying to be. <-
-> Because of this, the instant condition restoration on recipes should be replaced with a long lasting "Condition restore" effect (2.5%/hr for 10 hours, or similar) <-
-> The "Max Condition" Buff needs to be reworked so that it doesn't permanently grant you HP. The HP gains should be taken away after the effect ends. <-

Below is the explanation for why i think these changes are needed:

With the new cooking system, many discoverable recipes have the ability to instantly restore condition to the player, either from max condition or with the condition gain buff.
This creates several issues with game balance, immersion and game direction (a little bit)

Problem 1: Game Balance

The problem with these foods is that they inevitably become get out of jail free cards and completely remove a lot of the risk and danger that this game has.You are always able to fall back to your.. well, Health packs, and pretty easily heal any amount of damage taken that would otherwise have been life threatening.
It is now completely possible to heal yourself by up to 50%(!!!) in a few seconds by eating 2 prepper's pies, something that is insanely powerful and unheard of in this game.

Healing large amounts of HP has always required downtime, aka restful sleep. You've always needed to plan ahead in order to heal yourself properly. Healing yourself by that much in that short of a time span is absurdly powerful, especially since it carries no downsides. (none that matter anyway, -3kg carry weight for 1hr is basically nothing)
In comparison, the emergency stims have the downside of completely exhausting the player after 1 minute has passed, which throws a wrench in any plans they might have had for the day and forces them to find shelter, and try again after stabilizing the situation. This is a good way of implementing instant HP gain. It needs to come with a massive downside to offset the incredibly powerful life-saving effect that is instant condition gain.

And yes, I understand that these items are very difficult to obtain. Requiring multiple materials, cooking 5, and a recipe hidden in a random bunker in this game's massive map, It's a very tough thing to gain access to. But that doesn't change the fact that it trivializes condition management once you finally do have them. (Also, this applies to other recipes as well, but to a lesser extent.)

Problem 2: Immersion

This type of instant healing can be pretty dicey when it comes to being immersed in the game, because it makes no sense for a meal to immediately heal your character from any potential source of condition loss. Yes, a good meal can help out if you're struggling, but a pie is not a magic health pack that instantly heals injuries.
Mauled by an animal? Pie!
Freezing/bleeding to death? Pie!
Severely dehydrated for the last 30 hours? Pie!
Fell from a climbing rope and sprained all of your limbs? Pie!

It just makes no sense for foods to instantly heal players. It reminds you that you're playing a game and makes everything feel artificial

Problem 2.5: Game direction

With the introduction of these items, players now don't really need to bother with managing their condition when exploring, hunting, traveling or doing any other type of task. The game loses its risk. Survival is so guaranteed once you're able to create these items that it becomes stale and boring. Instead of always knowing you could die at any moment by making a mistake, you know that you always have a big safety net for when things might go wrong.

I want to end by sharing a portion of the "Steadfast Ranger" update video, where Raph talks about birch bark's tea place in the game.

Hinterland, please reconsider these instant HP buffs.

I recently just started to try and cook something and i believe i made a prepper pie (i still have it in inventory lol), oat meal, broth and thats it. I havent bothered with it because the way i play i dont really need it (i dont carry a skillet even) but after reading your arguments which are 100% on point IMO i think the same. 

I mostly use the cooking ingredients for display purpouse. I have gathered all of the ingredients from etire map on 2 interloper runs untill now and i just put them in my main base. I never carry food with me when im exploring (only 21 emergency cattails). I just hunt when i need to eat, eat on site and leave the rest near the campfire.