Comfort level.

[ianwrecked]

I believe there should be some sort of "comfort" factor implemented in TLD.

I live in Vermont, USA and it gets awfully cold during the winter. Windchill at approx. -40F. There have been many instances when hunting I've started a fire to keep [slightly] warm during long sits- as well as camping at around 0F. A fire comforts you physically, and I would argue more importantly, psychologically. Hunger/thirst needs tend to go down when in this situation and I feel it would be a pretty cool addition when you're in a cabin with a wood stove going. Just a thought.

[Trandor]

How would the player be affected if he has low "comfort"? What did you have in mind?

Because I kind of like the idea, but I'm not sure where you are going with this.

[elloco999]

I agree with @Trandor. It sounds good, but how would it work?

[levism84]

The game has several debuffs (food poisoning, sprained ankle, etc.) so why not add a buff or two. When you are near a fire for 5 in-game minutes, you get a "Comfort" buff that reduces condition decay or the decay rate of fatigue for X many in-game hours after you leave the fire.

[elloco999]

I like it, but I think the length of the buff should depend on the length of the time spend near the fire. If you spend 5 min, you get a buff for 1 hour, 10 min -> 2 hours etc. Something like that.

[levism84]

Unfortunately you can't stockpile warmth... at least, not beyond a certain immediate extent. Say, for example, you are freezing and you build a fire. The fire reduces your cold level until it disappears (reset to 0) and 5 minutes after that, if you stay within the warm glow of the fire, you gain the buff. The buff would immediately begin to dissipate (start countdown of 1 hour) after leaving the comfort of the fire. However, during this brief period of time, your cold meter would fill at a much slower rate until the buff disappeared.

[Trandor]

Well the only buff I ever had in real life was Willpower. Like the kiss of a loved one, a photo or memory. So I don't think I'd enjoy getting buffs (much less if they were displayed somewhere). I like this game to be gritty and cold. Buffs would make it... game-y. It would somehow burst my illusion of being alone out there in the cold.

And sitting next to the fire will not make you warm for an hour, no sirs. Having had to stand watch in the winter myself, I can tell you that your memory of that warm fire is gone not 10 minutes later, as opposed to your longing of returning there, which will gain in strength .

if you do want to see buffs, why not make them realistic? Hot beverages will keep you warm over a lomger period of time, caffeinated drinks will keep you awake. Why not use something like that? I'd rather focus on decreasing debuffs than on buffing our character.

[ianwrecked]

Understandable. One can always recount the thought of being warm, and albeit almost makes your current condition worse, it still has significance. One hunting/camping excursion I remember specifically is that my best friend and brother in-law were camping/hunting during an awful snowstorm/cold snap but we had a raging fire going (thanks to a stockpile of seasoned firewood that was available at an old abandoned maple sugar shack) and although we were all dog tired, we rejoiced in the fact that we not only we all had something negative in common (being cold, hungry, and tired) we all had something positive in common as well. The fire. The knowing that we are all going through exactly the same thing as the other guy.

Perhaps what I'm trying to say is this- I feel as though this game could do with a "morale" meter. Think about it. How many times were you at deaths door trudging through the snow during a blizzard and stumbled upon a shack/cache/or the trappers homestead. That made you feel incredible and thankful on the other side of the screen because you're so invested in the game. Think about how intense it should feel if one were to actually have that happen to them?

Maybe it has an "adrenaline rush" where your fatigue is slightly reduced. Maybe it has another effect on your vitals/condition. I feel as though this could be a pretty useful dynamic in this game. Oh, perhaps, I'm way off.

Thoughts?

[northerncities]

I've never really been into the "morale meter" idea -- that happens enough IRL for me. Same as the "willpower" buff, it feels game-y because it's completely intangible.

[Trandor]

Morale, willpower, same difference.

I get what you're trying to do here (and I think robdoar mentioned willpower before in a thread on cannibalism, so maybe something along these lines is already in the works).

But the way you phrased your sentences, you point out exactly what I mentioned before. The fire did not make the whole situation great and pleasant, it made it less unpleasant. So in fact you did not receive a positive buff, you simply decreased the effects of the negative debuffs (cold, tired, hungry).

Maybe it's just me, but to me those are two entirely different things. The devs would have to implement a whole new system, where positive stats can affect you and interact with the negative system. if you were suddenly to have positive buffs, there would be new ways to abuse these powers. Decreasing debuffs will not ever make you get in the realm of the positive, it will simply be less negative.

[ianwrecked]

That's an excellent point. Decreasing debuffs is an excellent way of describing it. Okay, so, would you agree that there should be some sort of decreased debuff system? I think so. In a game of wolves, us sheep should have some sort of comfort, yeah? I do, however, love the gritty cold feeling of this game. Take that as you will, devs!

[elloco999]

I like it. I agree that morale/ willpower decreasing negative effects would fit better in the game and probably be easier to implement as well.

[Burning Bridges]

I am not sure if we aren't just complicating things. But I don't think "comfort" is cutting it.

The simplified version: the game should really just have a morale bar. If morale drops too low it would have all kinds of adverse effects in the player. If morale is high, the player gets a bonus to all kinds of things like running or endurance.

Things like clothing, food, comfort etc all affect morale.

The more complicated version would be to have a "pain" bar as well. Pain is just the inverse of "comfort". I already mentioned in another topic that painkillers should not heal sprained ankles, they just numb pain. The problem is that this opens up too many new connections between stats. So, if the ankle is still sprained, but the player feels no pain from it. How would the game simulate the difference? Or what if the player feels a lot of pain (like running around in the cold without clothes), how does that affect his morale? Would the pain degrade his performance or increase it?

The problem is that it's not clear what difference it makes if the player feels pain or not. Some people can take a lot of pain, some people can take hardly no pain at all. It is even possible that people enjoy pain. Not in the masochistic sense, but rather like triathletes, polar explorers, extreme mountaineers. These people clearly seem to have developed a kind of addiction to pain. It seems the constant feeling "I am strong" becomes much more rewarding to them than any pain they feel. So for them, pain is actually a positive thing. It does not damage morale but rather strenghtens it. Especially if there are also the associated rewards. It is hard to quantify how good a hot bath feels after your body has been exposed to the most extreme cold, for days. So that is another thing about pain, that it is proportial to the enjoyment you feel when it goes away. Same with food. Your first meal after days gives you a proportional reward to the hunger you might have felt before.

[Burning Bridges]

Maybe it has an "adrenaline rush" where your fatigue is slightly reduced. Maybe it has another effect on your vitals/condition. I feel as though this could be a pretty useful dynamic in this game. Oh, perhaps, I'm way off.

Thoughts?

Actually I really like that.

Instead of a morale meter that constantly needs to be pampered, morale could be just a small, neglectable effect for most of the time. But when you get "adrenaline rush", there is a dramatic effect for a short time.

I think adrenaline rush should work along the lines of what is realistic: ie player fighting a wolf -> maximum adrenaline and so on. Of course one also needs to define what constitutes the opposite "shocks" that paralyze morale for a short amount of time. Let's say it happens when you sprain your ankles while you are out alone in the cold, with a long time to go home. For a short time it results in totally degraded performance. But it should work the same like adrenaline rush, after some time has passed, you begin to think clearly again and revert to normal.

Does that makes sense?