My Feedback (after 40 hours of playing)

[KleineVampir]

I spent literally 2 hours writing this. I spent so long that the site logged me out. I guess I was just bored and rambling though, so this time I'll just have to make a better and shorter version. Learn from my mistake and COPY EVERYTHING before you post! This site is apparently not friendly at all to those who write too long and get logged off. I just got a log-in screen instead of it posting. And going back did nothing!

Before I get going, I just want to mention a few things about myself. I'm a US Army veteran, and I've done a considerable amount of hiking. So I kind of know what I'm talking about. Though...I probably won't be talking much anymore. I'm just gonna give you a list of the general ideas. I've already spent over 2 hours doing this, but I don't want it to be for absolutely nothing. You're just going to have to get your own impression of what I mean, and your own ideas about how it'd work. This is the CONDENSED version of what I spent 2 hours on...to say the least.

1. Choose amount of food to eat. Probably make more sense in multiplayer, if that happens.

2. Cook food, melt snow, boil water while being able to do other things. Would have to be burning food as a possibility.

3. Running should warm you up, but depending on clothes.

4. Containers might want to remain after use. Even soda cans and sardine tins. Also the way water works is goofy as is.

5. Consider food and drink temperatures. Food could maybe keep longer in colder environment. 23 F (indoor temp) is below freezing, so meat would be frozen even inside. Soda in cans would explode if frozen.

6. Wolfskin coat is kinda iffy. Like...do you want it to work, or not? Just seems odd.

7. Running should take a little bit of everything (except heat), but mostly hydration, and then calories.

8. Consider having real time. At least inside. Feels like you have to rush all the time even when inside, for no reason.

9. Hunting deer seems odd. Kill shots...not kill shots? Seems random, and that's bad when bullets are few and limited.

10. Cleaning your rifle is not actually that important. I would know. I was in the Army. I was a small arms repairer. Especially if you're only going to run like 10 or so rounds through it!

11. Guns should either work, or not. If they don't, fix them. If they do, they should basically be fine.

12. Sleep is too dehydrating.

13. Whetstone wears out way to fast. Sharpening blades is more about skill. You can either make it duller, do nothing, or make it sharper depending on skill. But whetstones do not even wear out to my knowledge!

14. Sharpness of hatchet/knife should decide harvesting time. Has nothing to do with condition. If you want to do condition, just have a very slight chance of breakage. Especially with the hatchet...but a very very small chance! Like 1 in 1000 every time you use it!

15. Wolves should probably do most if not all the damage to your clothes. They seem to wear out too fast normally, but not enough when you get attacked by a wolf! Boots would wear out with use, but the hat on my head should be about fine for a pretty darn long time! Also maybe consider doing more upper-body garment damage since it seems like the idea is that you're using your arm to fend off the wolf.

16. Boots more complex? Heavier boots are slower and make you tired more. Also, some are water-proof and some aren't.

17. Prone position. Add stealth, get cold faster. Get wet.

18. Fishing line percent? Seems odd that they just snap out of nowhere, but...it's kinda ok.

19. Fishing skill?

20. RPG or not? I think you kinda gotta choose one route. Maybe think about character creation and having stats? I'd love random and hidden stats myself!

21. You should probably be able to track deer over ice. It'd be harder, but I bet it's doable.

22. I doubt mammals of any kind like to spend very much time on the ice, out in the open for all to see! That can be off-putting to see. I think animals like to be hidden, and in the forest.

23. Bait for fishing? Bait for rabbit snare?

24. Bear trap? Also with bait? Ha. That'd be some fun, catching bears and even wolves...maybe even deer. I guess they are all big animals in reality.

25. Different sized animals. Kind of off-putting when every animal is the same exact size. I think the meat varies, which is fine. But they look the same.

26. Sustainability. You really don't want us to live forever, do you? Just being able to prolong the inevitable is kind of a turn-off to me, and quite possibly other people too. The "high-score" aspect to it is kinda good enough. But I'd like the ability to be self-sufficient and sustainable in the long term.

27. Axes and cutting down trees. It'd take a ton of time and effort, but...it's a logging place! There's got to be an axe, or more likely, a chainsaw here or there! Extreme time and effort, extreme payoff! Certainly more realism!

28. Spears! Probably not for spear fishing or hunting, but you could probably fend off a wolf or even kill a hostile wolf. MAYBE even a bear...

29. Weapons/tools wield-able?

30. Morale? Could decrease/ get cabin fever if left inside doing nothing for too long. Going outside/activity/finding new/useful things could increase it.

31. Get unsafe water from fishing hole!

32. Save more often. At least when leaving a building! Then I want to say autosave once per minute while outside, and after making something on the workbench! Saves can be exploited as is!

33. Bone tools.

34. Extraneous cosmetics kind of break the realism. If you're going to have a realistic game, you probably shouldn't try and add things that aren't really there just so that it doesn't look like a bare shelf/dresser/counter top!

35. Ability to place items. You can place a lantern, so why not a can opener or whatever?

Thanks for reading! I hope the devs take a look at this! If you have a question about anything, I'll be checking back! I can't believe I lost all that writing. Oh well, it was actually way too much! Anyways, all this said, I really love the game, even as it is now! Great job guys! Keep making improvements!

[KleineVampir]

And yeah, like I saw on here. The ability to sleep without a bedroll. I got trapped inside one time because I forgot my bedroll in another house..or something like that. I think it was that farm house that has no bed. Anyways, I COULDN'T sleep...which seemed pretty silly. I mean given it would suck, but if you have clothes you could sleep on the ground! I wouldn't expect as much rest benefit, but I should be able to get through the night without dying!

[PPartisan]

Good suggestions, but just FYI, it is possible to place items in the same way as the lantern. If you're using a PC, it's right-click on the item then left-click to place (it will go green if the location is valid.)

[Renegade30]

And yeah, like I saw on here. The ability to sleep without a bedroll. I got trapped inside one time because I forgot my bedroll in another house..or something like that. I think it was that farm house that has no bed. Anyways, I COULDN'T sleep...which seemed pretty silly. I mean given it would suck, but if you have clothes you could sleep on the ground! I wouldn't expect as much rest benefit, but I should be able to get through the night without dying!

Lol I had a similar problem. I decided to stay at the carter dam and sleep in my bedroll. I always just left it on the ground and there's no way to immediately tell the condition of your bedroll like that without picking it up, so I completely forgot to routinely check it. One evening after a long day outside I slept in it for 1 hour and then it was ruined just before night time rolled in.

So to start the journey to find a bed I ate some food to get my calories up and use up the meat I had lying around and of course - I get food poisoning. So then I had the fun yet ridiculous journey of trying to get to the logging sheds, with food poisoning, hardly any energy, in the middle of the night with 1 flare and 3 bullets just so that I could lie down! Not sure if it was just me but the wolves were out in force that night (managed to stave off 3 of them), probably because I stank like shit haha. It was pretty funny though...

[KleineVampir]

And yeah, like I saw on here. The ability to sleep without a bedroll. I got trapped inside one time because I forgot my bedroll in another house..or something like that. I think it was that farm house that has no bed. Anyways, I COULDN'T sleep...which seemed pretty silly. I mean given it would suck, but if you have clothes you could sleep on the ground! I wouldn't expect as much rest benefit, but I should be able to get through the night without dying!

Lol I had a similar problem. I decided to stay at the carter dam and sleep in my bedroll. I always just left it on the ground and there's no way to immediately tell the condition of your bedroll like that without picking it up, so I completely forgot to routinely check it. One evening after a long day outside I slept in it for 1 hour and then it was ruined just before night time rolled in.

So to start the journey to find a bed I ate some food to get my calories up and use up the meat I had lying around and of course - I get food poisoning. So then I had the fun yet ridiculous journey of trying to get to the logging sheds, with food poisoning, hardly any energy, in the middle of the night with 1 flare and 3 bullets just so that I could lie down! Not sure if it was just me but the wolves were out in force that night (managed to stave off 3 of them), probably because I stank like shit haha. It was pretty funny though...

Ha, sounds ridiculous! You gotta keep that bedroll repaired! It gives out more heat the more repaired it is. So I figure it matters! Not that sleeping outside is ever great, but hey...if you have to, you're not going to want to repair it first most likely.

[KleineVampir]

Hm, so I saw somebody said there are a lot of things in the game that are meant to not last forever to motivate you to move through the game. I totally understand that. It's an old gaming concept, usually called "flow." And with this type of game, you need to have a reason to do something other than fishing, going back and cooking the meat, and then sharpening up your hatchet again to cook more fish and melt down more water. So yeah, I can see why they don't want the infinite whetstone...or super long-lasting tools.

However...I'd make the point that if you really make it realistic enough, the game will still be very difficult. So yeah, if you give us whetstones that never wear out, just be sure to make something else harder that should be harder. Not everything I suggested was to make life way too easy. I suggested getting random illnesses. In real life, catching a cold could last for...at least a week or two. I dunno about you guys, but when I get sick, I get sick! I think that could be a pretty significant debuff to where if you aren't already decently set up, you might not make it.

If you make enough bad situations that require action, it could create flow. I'd probably just do two realistic things at a time. One good, one bad. That way you're keeping the balance of the game while you increase the realism.

I can see why you wouldn't want us to have the unlimited whetstone, but honestly..if I have to go outside and chop wood every time I want to cook meat or get water...there are plenty of wolves/bears in the game. I'd still have problems.

But yeah, if they are thinking that it's just gonna be a mostly realistic romp through a story mode, then ok. It might be a bit much to ask, but you could have the super hard setting replaced by the ultra-realistic setting.

BTW, that hard setting is way too much! At least it always has been for me. If I tried it now, I MIGHT actually have a chance...but it does seem awfully hard! And not really meaningfully. There's just like...less loot, and everything is colder from my experience. The whole less loot thing really can screw you over at first, though.

Anyways..I'm guessing the devs just have the story mode in mind. I bet they're just working on that now and not worrying about any particular mechanics. Or at least, they might adjust some numbers, but probably not change anything drastically. It makes me wonder, though. Is a story mode even what people want? It's kind of the hardcore survival game bunch that's gonna like this game to begin with. I'm not sure how many of us care to do something like a one-player game that ends.

[Renegade30]

Hm, so I saw somebody said there are a lot of things in the game that are meant to not last forever to motivate you to move through the game. I totally understand that. It's an old gaming concept, usually called "flow." And with this type of game, you need to have a reason to do something other than fishing, going back and cooking the meat, and then sharpening up your hatchet again to cook more fish and melt down more water. So yeah, I can see why they don't want the infinite whetstone...or super long-lasting tools

The issue of tool repair and item degradation always comes up on this forum and people don't seem to realise what you have just written here so props for that. In my opinion, as this is a game, it really comes down to one question, 'Is it fun?' not 'Is it realistic?', and in my opinion, I think it is fun because it not only fits within the theme of the game, but it also forces you to be on the lookout for resources, find time to repair items and look after your tools. As it has been said a few times now, I would like to see tools not acting as efficiently when they lose enough condition though.

However...I'd make the point that if you really make it realistic enough, the game will still be very difficult. So yeah, if you give us whetstones that never wear out, just be sure to make something else harder that should be harder. Not everything I suggested was to make life way too easy.

I've always wanted finer control over the difficulty in this game and so have many others. I really wish they give us sliding scales with various things so we can play how we like. For instance my favorite way of playing would probably be hardly any animals (because im good enough at this game that I just see wolves as sacks of meat on legs), extremely punishing weather and hardly any items found throughout the world. That way I would always have to be on the move through punishing conditions. TMW kind of accomplishes this already in a way - which is a good step.

I suggested getting random illnesses. In real life, catching a cold could last for...at least a week or two. I dunno about you guys, but when I get sick, I get sick! I think that could be a pretty significant debuff to where if you aren't already decently set up, you might not make it.

I do like the idea of getting random illnesses, however it may be a bit frustrating because it would be so random. Players like to be in control of what happens to them somewhat. They feel like if they made a mistake, or a risk, its ok to get punished for it. But if a RNG just says 'Hey you now have the flu!' for no other reason than the game says so, players would get frustrated. I would like to see more none random illnesses in the game though, but they should really be attached to players actions somehow. Like instead of just getting hypothermia when you are freezing, perhaps you could get a higher variety of things such as bronchitis, which would then potentially lead to hypothermia anyway. Maybe give us the chance of severe wounds requiring not only a bandage and antiseptic, but more critical wound care such as stitches, the possibility of sepsis etc.

I have always found it strange also that you treat food poisoning with anti-biotics. I would imagine that unless the food poisoning is extremely severe (worse than in game) taking antibiotics would actually make you feel worse because it kills all the good bacteria in your gut. Most food poisoning is treated by letting your body get as much of the food out via both ends, staying hydrated and resting for 2-3 days while eating small amounts.

BTW, that hard setting is way too much! At least it always has been for me. If I tried it now, I MIGHT actually have a chance...but it does seem awfully hard! And not really meaningfully. There's just like...less loot, and everything is colder from my experience. The whole less loot thing really can screw you over at first, though.

Anyways..I'm guessing the devs just have the story mode in mind. I bet they're just working on that now and not worrying about any particular mechanics. Or at least, they might adjust some numbers, but probably not change anything drastically. It makes me wonder, though. Is a story mode even what people want? It's kind of the hardcore survival game bunch that's gonna like this game to begin with. I'm not sure how many of us care to do something like a one-player game that ends.

I quite enjoy the hard setting, it makes the game fun for me and many others

I am actually excited to see what the story mode holds for us because there's hardly any survival games out there that actually have a single player story mode. Hinterland is doing something quite unique here, so it will be really interesting to see what they come up with. Your point still stands though, that I would be playing this game with or without the story mode