Archonax

On 4/21/2020 at 7:53 PM, The Gentleman Bastard said:

the screens ive seen of the "Pack Meter" for the Timberwolves seems kinda at odds with the game UI. Perhaps more an icon akin to the Thirst and Hunger and such? Just make it red with a circle around a red Wolf head until the circle dissipates. anyone else agree? if so, help me pass this up the latter if you will. Thanks everyone ^^

I like that idea. Makes it less obtrusive on the UI. Maybe having it heartbeat-in would be enough to 'draw attention to it' for new players and then act like it normally does.

On 4/16/2020 at 9:51 PM, Dkhar said:

For example, you need to craft an airplane and to do so you need tools and electricity but electricity can be obtained only from the aurora so it's a lot of time to wait for aurora and gather everything and so on. Can u imagine if you need to craft a screwer at the forge? you need iron or scrap metal and for example, plastic and can be obtained from coffeemakers or microwaves, but you need a hacksaw. More instruments can be added to craft. When you have crafted the airplane you can't just fly away you need fuel (oil) a lot(and it's a lot of fishing) and normal weather (clear sky) and so on ..this game has no limitations and there so many things to do and craft and add in this cold world. Huge potential. I think it is interesting and for example, some parts of a plane that you need to gather you can all find them in specific areas and the plane is in another area far away and the thing you need to bring is heavy (it will slow you down) every time you pick it up, for example only fed bonus will allow you to grab the thing and run but It will drain more stamina because it's so heavy, so you need to think about how to get there. Devs can add some cave with the airplane or it can be outside to make repairing more harder.

This would change the goal of the game -- instead of 'fight against nature as long as you can until you succumb', it would then be 'survive long enough to craft a McGuffin.'

I am. . .vehemently opposed to this idea.

Stumbling starts at 15% condition.

In the meantime, I've been simply deleting my game save if I reach the point of stumbling and am not already somewhere I can begin restoring condition immediately. While dissatisfying and it means my plays don't get added to the journal, it's keeping me from quitting entirely out of frustration.

On 4/13/2020 at 6:38 AM, exeexe said:

Would be great if u could mark your map

Like i drop a riffle in a house then i go to my map and mark on my map that i dropped my riffle here

That functionality is somewhat already present. You can place notes in your journal, including 'rilfe dropped at mystery lake cabin'.

12 hours ago, unclebeer said:

Which is why most accessibility options are toggleable...

Give 'GameSave Manager' a try -- it's free and has the ability to back up your game saves (including The Long Dark) automatically at intervals. This way, you could set your TLD save to be backed up every X minutes, so that if you fall asleep and wind up dying you can 'restore' an earlier backup from before you died.

12 hours ago, Buckets524 said:

I guess I feel like the immersion is interrupted by use of a map that has my exact location at all times. Part of survival in the wild is using one’s ability to read a map.

Ah! You must be talking about story mode -- I forgot that it had a traditional game map. Give Survival mode a try -- the map doesn't exist until you 'create' it by surveying with charcoal in multiple areas, you don't get a placement marker that shows where you are, and you don't even know which way you're facing without referencing landmarks. I think it'll give you the experience you're looking for.

21 hours ago, Dahart said:

The thing about the compass not working due to the geo-magnetic event causing the plane crash in the first place is a good point. It could still work when there is no aurora though. And if its a rare find, maybe 1 or 2 in the whole world, it would potentially leave still alot of game time foricing you to orient without one before you find you. IF you ever.

Which brings me back to my original point:

As i mentioned before, even a compas would not help you use the local maps any better. Because you don't know which way you are facing on the map while looking at it.

Nobody bothered to give me a solution to the problem i offered in the example i gave. Which way should i go, north or south?

I just feel like the charcoal maps are a half-baked attempt to help the player. A feature that is lacking potential. The devs gave us the ability to create a map, but then failed to implement how we can use them effectively. Like i said, i am still waiting for an answer to my problem. If you can't use the map in the situation i described, its definitely lacking its potential, isn't? I mean what good is a map for, if not for finding your way?

Oh and just as a side note: Our guy seems to have some kind of local orientation, he just doesn't tell us Because even if you map two disconnected regions inside a charcoal map, in the end when the map is complete, they all connect nicely to each other and don't need to be rotated. Because he knew which way he was facing as he was drawing 😮

To answer your earlier question, you don't and won't know which way to go in your specific example without the use of a third landmark. If visibility is poor enough that you can't discern a third landmark for reference, then you're just out of luck and have to roll the dice!

Nearly all MREs/IMPs include flameless ration heaters (FRHs) -- a device included with the MRE/IMP that will heat up the food by using a little bit of water to start an exothermic chemical reaction. Due to the rarity of MREs, I don't think it would be too large a boon to have these act in a similar way in game, re: use up some water (potable or non-potable, doesn't matter which!) and have the MRE reach a heated state within a few in-game minutes, giving a 'Warmed Up!' affliction as other heated foods/drinks do.

3 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

I can appreciate how that could be taken... and for that I can apologize.  My apparent exasperation is with what I feel is a tendency for many folks to over use that term to describe things they don't like.  I did not mean for it to feel like I was directing it directly at you (but more at how the term as lately been misunderstood, in my opinion)... I acknowledge that I could have been better at articulating that.

No worries -- I'll freely admit that tone can be difficult to convey over text. If anything came across as an insult, be assured that was not the intent.

10 minutes ago, ManicManiac said:

Nice try, but I'm not going to engage with this kind of thing... especially considering that I was calling back to previous discussions that had nothing to do with you, but simply encapsulate my view of similar subjects.  I don't think personal insults are necessary or productive.  I didn't think said anything that was referring to you personally.

I don't recall insulting you -- you may want to reread my earlier reply.

7 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

Here we go again... "Immersion Breaking."

I do think you have to admit that quoting a word I used (immersion-breaking) and then copy-pasting numerous posts you've made about how people often misuse the words is a bit pointed. While I will agree with your point in some respects, it is inapplicable to my post here.

On 4/6/2020 at 1:38 AM, Dahart said:

More a qualiy of life suggestion:

Its annoying to get in the car in the front, check inside, get out, get in the back of the car, get out.

Instead, make it possible to switch from front seats to back seats and vice versa.

On 4/6/2020 at 4:59 PM, ManicManiac said:

...have you tried crawling around inside a car in the middle of winter while in several layers of winter clothes and a 30 Kg pack full of stuff???  I have.   You can barely sit down comfortably (with the aforementioned pack on your back) let a alone crawl around from front seat to back.

It's definitely easier to get out and get to the front of the back.

No thanks on this idea, I think it's reasonable that we have limited mobility in a car considering all the crap we have on and usually in our inventories.

While it is annoying -- I think it's necessary. I agree with the difficulty of movement inside a car precluding the player from climbing over and around the seats. However, I do think that the head turn radius should be extended slightly -- it's not an incredible feat to twist your shoulders/back 30 degrees from center. Else, how would anyone back up a car the proper way? E.G. attached screenshot.

14 hours ago, Buckets524 said:

As far as tools go, I think a mechanical watch that requires maintenance would be awesome. Low condition could make time-keeping inaccurate. Survival mode could have option to start with watch, or not. Wintermute could begin with the watch inoperative and needing repair. The sun/moon diagram could possibly be removed or have an option to have it, or not.

I simply dislike this idea. Not because of the addition of another item to maintain, but because it would be redundant and in my opinion a waste of prioritization of the dev's time.

14 hours ago, Buckets524 said:

A compass that does not work during the northern lights. The benefit this confers to the player could be offset by including an option to disable the player blip on the maps.

I believe the devs have given their opinion on compasses in the past -- while they are a useful survival tool, the inclusion of a compass would make the player less likely to rely on building knowledge of an area for navigation and thereby reduce their involvement/immersion in the experience. I agree.

14 hours ago, Buckets524 said:

Shotguns. I appreciate that the Canadian setting means no assault rifles and overall less firearms than the US. Shotguns are allowed for hunting and home defense, and I imagine they would be pretty prevalent in the game’s locale.

While I do enjoy firearms, I don't see any benefit to adding a new firearm to the game. I'd be loath to have this survival/exploration/wilderness game turn into a 'shooty-shooty animals go poof' production.

14 hours ago, Buckets524 said:

Transportation:

Skis and snowshoes. I know this has been discussed quite a bit. They are tried and true ways of getting around. The weight of skis are a drawback, as they would lessen the player’s ability to carry as many items. Skis could come in cross country and downhill varieties. Snowshoes are not the fastest. All would require maintenance.

Sleds. This has also been talked about a lot. I think the potential change to gameplay balance could be mitigated by having sleds be slow and exhausting, as well as being unwieldy on hills and not viable on all terrain. Sleds are extremely common, but aren't necessarily as easy as someone might imagine. I don’t think animals should be able to pull the sleds. Training for sled dogs must begin as pups, and wolves would never be a viable option. Horses are not of use in the snow.

In a similar vein to the compass reasoning -- walking in the quiet is a large part of the 'game feel' that The Long Dark has. In my opinion, having faster modes of transportation would negatively impact the world's presence.

19 hours ago, Hochleistungsfaultier said:

But what is so hard about pressing "Esc" once before you leave your PC...

Also, playing until your fatigue overwhelms you isn't a good lifestyle. You might consider changing it.

Cheers

2 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

No thank you.

I would not be in favor of something like this at all.  I've never liked the idea of adding more player "safety nets" to this game... I think the last thing the game needs more hand holding mechanics.  I think part of what I like so much about this game is that it's not afraid to make us have to deal with the consequences of our actions... on in this case, inaction.
 

I've spoken about this before in the past so I'll just echo it here:

[The bits in brackets are where I've updated some of those older posts to put them in broader terms because they referenced other specific topics - but the idea still applies to this one]

Agreed. At best this could be considered an accessibility request (re: narcolepsy, emergencies, etc), but even so it would be near impossible to implement without interfering with your average player. Sit still watching a bear move across the pond for [a few] minutes? Whoops, paused! Watch the sunrise without moving? Whoops, paused! Severe immersion breaker at its worst.

20 hours ago, ajb1978 said:

Correct, there is nothing positive about being near death.  This mechanism conveys that quite well.  It shouldn't feel good.

You're being deliberately obtuse. The statement you quoted was in direct response to ManicManiac's comment where he states that the stumble mechanic causes a positive experience when overcome, re:

Quote

I disagree.  I think there is a satisfying exhilaration when we can manage to persevere despite our character's body & health failing them... and manage to live to fight another day.  While some may find it frustrating... I do not.  I really like this mechanic.  I get why some don't like it, but I sincerely hope they don't water down the threat of low condition... I think it would take away a lot from the game if they marginalized it.  I think being close to death should be kind of a big deal and very very dangerous.  I think what OP refers to as "stumble mechanic" is wonderful as is.  I think it helps encourage a player to do their best to not get to that point in the first place (and when they do the situation is very dangerous and dire - which I think is very appropriate).

Obviously, I disagree -- I don't think it holds any positive merits as an active gameplay mechanic (as in feeling accomplished when it is overcome).

---------

5 hours ago, ManicManiac said:

No, I didn't miss your point... I got your point just fine.  I just happen to appreciate the "stumble mechanic," and that point that you don't seem to like... I like very much.

 

Here we go again... "Immersion Breaking."   You'll have to bare with me a moment, It's just a subject that comes up a lot - since it's easy to through that word around when folks don't like something.  I've spoken about this before so I'll just echo it here (bare in mind this comes in part from another topic, but my stance remains the same):

[snip]

[snip]

  For example...

[and snip]

*I'd be willing to bet that when a player is near death and the "stumble mechanic" takes hold, that a player is more deeply mentally involved than ever before. 

I have nothing personal towards you...  I just don't agree with your assertions or assumptions on this particular subject.

I see you spend a lot of time countering any critical feedback about the game (from your comment history, not just what you've posted/quoted here). And no, I wholeheartedly believe that you missed my point, as you've asserted (so far):

1. That I want to 'water down the threat of low condition and/or that I think being close to death shouldn't be a big deal or dangerous
   • This point is a fantasy. I never stated that low condition should have no threat (it already does -- wolf attacks kill you! Environmental effects kill you! Lack of food/water kills you!). I stated that the stumble mechanic as it exists does not heighten tension -- it merely takes control away from the player when their situation is already extremely dire.
2. That I think 'I'm doing everything right' and am just salty about being close to death
   • Another fantasy. I don't know if you noticed in my original post, but I stated that I survived the stumble mechanic and was able to heal up. Instead of satisfaction or relief at recovering from a dire situation with extremely low condition, I was so fed up with fighting the stumble mechanic that I simply closed the game.
3. That I'm conflating 'frustration' and 'immersion-breaking'
   • Oh boy, here we go. "Since you don't agree with me, you must not know the meaning of words." Sure sure, let's get the definition of both of these out of the way:
     • Frustration: [Merriam-Webster, 1-b] to induce feelings of discouragement in
       • As in: Man, it sure is frustrating when you're stuck at stumble-level condition and you try to walk through an indoor area, getting shoved into and stuck on the vast majority of objects on the floor. It makes me want to stop playing instead of attempting to overcome it!
     • Immersion: [Merriam-Webster, a] absorbing involvement
       • As in: Man, it sure does make me realize I'm playing a game when my character suddenly gets swung around 10 yards in any given direction at up to 20 mph every few seconds like a marionette

To be clear:

As a stylistic point, I /like/ the stumble effect, even if I think it should be dampened in amplitude to be more realistic. I don't think it should be removed, I think its timing should be changed. Pseudo-control of your player character simply causes frustration at the gameplay mechanic instead of increasing tension. It does not feel satisfying to overcome. Losing agency over your character disconnects you from the game, and as such causes immersion to be jarred and frustration to be had.

Posited solution:

1. Show stumbling as a post-zero condition effect. Hide the UI (helps reinforce that you've lost and are no longer in control) and have the character stumble around for a few seconds until fading to the long dark. If you think removing pre-death stumbling is 'OMG make it EZ', then reduce the maximum condition you can have by the amount that stumbling requires.

1 hour ago, ManicManiac said:

I think that's kind of the point... at such low condition, I think it's a nice touch that they represent incoherence and loss of motor-control in the way that they do.  I really like this aspect, I think it really helps to encourage the player to be careful with their condition.

I disagree.  I think there is a satisfying exhilaration when we can manage to persevere despite our character's body & health failing them... and manage to live to fight another day.  While some may find it frustrating... I do not.  I really like this mechanic.  I get why some don't like it, but I sincerely hope they don't water down the threat of low condition... I think it would take away a lot from the game if they marginalized it.  I think being close to death should be kind of a big deal and very very dangerous.  I think what OP refers to as "stumble mechanic" is wonderful as is.  I think it helps encourage a player to do their best to not get to that point in the first place (and when they do the situation is very dangerous and dire - which I think is very appropriate).

I for one, am glad that (for the most part) this game doesn't hold our hand... and that it's not afraid to give us unsympathetic consequences for our actions & is not afraid to dole out some unfortunate circumstances even when we think we're doing everything right.  

I think you're missing the point.

Taking control away from the player -- most of the time causing death -- does not feel good to the player. There is no positive. There are other ways to simulate negative effects at low condition, such as walking slower, decreasingly poor vision, etc.

This is not to make the game 'easier' or to 'hand hold', as you condescendingly stated. If stumbling currently happens at 10/100 condition, then change condition max to 90 and make stumbling happen at 0, as I suggested earlier (a death walk animation of stumbling). That way, there is no 'benefit' to the gameplay, and you don't 'lose control' of your character until you hit '0' -- at which point, you have already lost. It's a psychological aspect you're choosing to ignore.

Edit: Specifically, the stumble mechanic as it currently exists is immersion-breaking. TLD's strongest selling point (imo) is it's immersion.

While stumbling as a pre-death mechanic is immersive (when it isn't flinging you 20 yds at 30mph), the way it is currently implemented feels bad.

Stumbling as it currently exists takes control away from the player when their condition is below a certain threshold. This is almost always fatal -- but when it is not immediately fatal, it is a frustrating whirlwind that replaces the tension of being near-death with anger. Have you ever tried to navigate a buildings internal structure while sitting just below the stumble threshold? It is a Sisyphean task. I've just experienced this -- while it did not turn out to be fatal, it increasingly frustrated me to the point that when I finally reached safety to regain my condition, I ensured my game saved and then immediately exited the game. What should have been exhilaration and relief from recovering from a near-death experience was tainted by the stumbling mechanic.

That being said, I do think it has a place -- just not before death. As your condition gets lower, keep the thumping heartbeat, maybe lose some peripheral vision, etc. Once your condition hits zero? Game over -- hide the UI and lose control of the character, stumbling around as it fades to black (10, 15 seconds). Also -- there needs to be a dampener on the distance the stumble can take you -- in a blizzard you can easily 'stumble' 10-15 yards at faster than a sprint. It's ridiculous.